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Featured What we Need to Be Saved From

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by mkgal1, Jan 11, 2018.

  1. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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    I thought this was an interesting take on what it is we need saving from:

    ----->When religion cannot find a meaning for human suffering, human beings far too often become cynical, bitter, negative, and blaming. Healthy religion, almost without realizing it, shows us what to do with our pain, with the absurd, the tragic, the nonsensical, the unjust. If we do not transform our pain, we will most assuredly transmit it. If we cannot find a way to make our wounds into sacred wounds, we invariably give up on life and humanity. I am afraid there are bitter and blaming people everywhere, both inside and outside of the church. As they go through life, the hurts, disappointments, betrayals, abandonments, and the burden of their own sinfulness and brokenness all pile up, and they do not know how to deal with all this negativity. This is what we need to be “saved” from.

    If there isn’t some way to find some deeper meaning to our suffering, to find that God is somehow in it, and can even use it for good, we will normally close up and close down. The natural movement of the small self or ego is to protect itself so as not to be hurt again. As I shared last week, neuroscience now shows us that we attach to negativity “like Velcro” unless we intentionally develop another neural path like forgiveness or letting go.

    Mature religion is about transforming history and individuals so that we don’t keep handing the pain on to the next generation. For Christians, we learn to identify our own wounds with the wounding of Jesus and the sufferings of the universal Body of Christ (see Philippians 3:10-11), which is Deep Meaning that always feeds the soul. We can then see our own suffering as a voluntary participation in the one Great Sadness of God (Colossians 1:24). Within this meaningful worldview, we can build something new, good, and forever original, while neither playing the victim nor making victims of others. We can be free conduits of grace into the world.~https://cac.org/transforming-our-pain-2016-02-26/

    Your thoughts? Arguments?
     
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  2. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    yes

    And my pain can be my own fault, when there is not real reason for me to suffer about something. So, I need to die to self, deny my self, get into God's love with His light and creativity so with Him I can appreciate and benefit from how He uses anything for His loving good.

    I can be very busy with paranoid criticizing and suspecting and accusing. If any negative nasty stuff starts, this is bitterness in the works; I need to stop right away and wait while God corrects me. And we have >

    "Husbands, love your wives and do not be bitter toward them." (Colossians 3:19)

    So, no bitterness, at all, is allowed; there is no excuse for bitterness to even start in us. So, as soon as any bitterness even starts, right away I need to stop while God corrects me, then see how I relate with my lady in God's love with His perception and creativity and affection and encouragement for her about whatever is good. Encourage her about how she has been right and I was wrong, or encourage her about how she needs to do better.

    This is included :) In any case, I now would say, my own self is my biggest problem, because my own selfish self makes me weak enough so all that nasty rotten stuff can get to me. But in God's love I can be creative in an all-loving way, with God who works in His all loving.
     
  3. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    1 Thessalonians 5:21 says,

    "Test all things; hold fast what is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

    I think this includes that we test things which happen to us, in order to find out what God will do with it.

    You can feed in Genesis 37-50, about how Joseph was betrayed by his own brothers, sold into slavery, then put in jail for what he did not do; yet, God used that horrible situation, by using Joseph to help to save many people's lives. He even found a way to reconcile with those brothers and to help save them, also, from starvation during a great famine.

    So, God is able to make His all-loving use of anything, no matter how evil it is. This is like how our Heavenly Father has used the crucifixion of Jesus for His all-loving good for us.
     
  4. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Reformed Catholic, Puritan

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    So the author is suggesting we need to be saved from pain?
     
  5. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Yes, the pain you will feel if you follow Orthodox theology and not the true God who blinds unbelieving ones so that they cannot see the glorious light. 2 Corinthians 4:4 and that by the God of this world, the Supreme God is meant. Almost all the ancients agree the Supreme God is meant.
     
  6. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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    Pardon? You're going to have to elaborate on that.

    Did you mean to write, "almost all the ancients agree the Supreme God is mean"? If so....that's not true.
     
  7. Soyeong

    Soyeong Well-Known Member

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    Our Salvation is from our sins and the goal is to be restored into a right relationship with God. Our sins cause hurts, disappointments, betrayals, abandonments, and brokenness, so overcoming these things is the byproduct of being restored to a right relationship with God. The definition given of mature religion does not even mention God, so it seems to me that the problem is that this shifts the focus and makes freedom from brokeness and pain the goal with God just being used to reach that goal.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  8. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    No, the SUPREME GOD IS MEANT. Exodus 4:11; John 12:40; Isaiah 6:9-10; Jeremiah 6:21
     
  9. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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    I didn't take him to mean we need to be saved *from* pain.....more that we need to be saved from the egotistical and unhealthy responses to pain we can have that cause us to blame others....become bitter and cynical....and closed off from others.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  10. amariselle

    amariselle Jesus Never Fails

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    While I do agree that God works everything together for the good of those who love him (Romans 8:28), and that the suffering in this life so often does not make sense and can and does cause confusion and even anger, what we actually need to be "saved" from (and all born again Christians are) is not "negativity", but sin and its eternal consequences.

    These words are a great reminder:

    14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

    15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

    16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

    17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

    18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

    19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.


    20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

    21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

    22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

    23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

    24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

    25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

    26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

    27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

    28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

    30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

    31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

    32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

    33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

    34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

    35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

    36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

    37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

    38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

    39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    - Romans 8:14-39
     
  11. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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    Well.....God IS being used [so to speak] to reach that goal (it's love that transforms us---and all love flows from God).......and by being made whole....we can properly be reconciled to Him. It seems to be backwards to say we are [actually] restored to a "right relationship with God" while we still are broken. I believe we are "being saved".....[all of us].....not that it's already a "done deal". In my belief....what's done is that God's completed the work on the cross in order to demonstrate His love for us.
     
  12. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Ephesians 1:21-22
     
  13. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    How does he reach that goal? God blinds the unbeliever and speaks in parables so that they might not understand: Matthew 13:14-15; 2 Co 4:4; John 12:40; Isaiah 6:9-10; Exodus 4:11; Jeremiah 5:21, Jeremiah 6:21
     
  14. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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    .....but are we "saved from sin" when we (and others) are displaying sinful behavior? And by "sinful"...I mean what the author described. The author didn't say we needed to be saved from negativity. I interpret him to be saying we need to be saved from the inability to know how to deal with hurt, betrayal, disappointments, abandonments, and the burden of our own sinfulness and brokenness. What happens when we don't know how to deal with those things? We sin. We transmit our own pain.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  15. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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    Then how did we (or any other believer) ever become a believer?

    Are you Calvinistic....believing that He controls who is a "believer" and who isn't?

    It's lower "g" god of this world that blinds the unbeliever....not the True God that does that.

    "...in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of the unbelieving, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not dawn"~2nd Corinthians 4:4
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  16. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Reformed Catholic, Puritan

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    I think that this is an aspect of what we need to be saved from. But to identify this as the fundamental problem is too reductionistic.

    We need to be saved from sin and the curse of God upon sin. Pain and sinful responses to pain come from sin.

    To me, this would be like saying that we need to be saved from headaches when the real problem is a brain tumor.
     
  17. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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    Isn't it MORE of a reduction to say "we need to be saved from sin"?

    We aren't sin.....so God's curse upon sin is only freeing to us....because just like you said "pain and sinful responses come from sin".
     
  18. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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    I think I see what you're saying....that all the author listed are symptoms of sin (is that correct?). But the way I see it.....he's just getting more descriptive in describing sin. I think too often we try to separate ourselves from the word by thinking SIN is some giant trespasses we'd NEVER commit.
     
  19. Tree of Life

    Tree of Life Reformed Catholic, Puritan

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    God hasn't just cursed sin. He has cursed sinners. And we are sinners. We need to be saved from his curse upon us.
     
  20. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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    .....and you're getting that from where?
     
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