What We Know About the Killing of Elijah McClain

[tulc]

well if you just got dispatched to respond to a complaint about someone acting strange who had on a ski mask in August and you then see a person matching that description would you not approach that individual and see what is going on, could be that the person is having a mental health issue and needs help.

...choking and killing seems an odd sort of way of "helping" someone.
tulc(just thought that should be pointed out)

 

[disciple Clint]

...choking and killing seems an odd sort of way of "helping" someone.
tulc(just thought that should be pointed out)

The police did not tell him to resist them. It is pretty clear that he was out of control, had to be restrained and medicated even. I would like to see the toxicology report. He is showing indications of drug reactions which could very well be why he had two heart attacks in transport to the hospital.

 

[Hank77]

well if you just got dispatched to respond to a complaint about someone acting strange who had on a ski mask in August and you then see a person matching that description would you not approach that individual and see what is going on, could be that the person is having a mental health issue and needs help.

If they are calmly walking down the street carrying their grocery sacks and there is a grocery store close by, no I would hope I would do what tulc suggested and just watch. Remember no one reported that he was doing anything wrong. I could go to the grocery store and see if anyone who worked there knew him, which is very likely.
The best way to help this guy and those like him would be to gain his trust.

 

[tulc]

The police did not tell him to resist them.

Victim blaming. "See what you made us do here?"

It is pretty clear that he was out of control, had to be restrained and medicated even.

...choking and beating someone does seem to have that effect on some people.

I would like to see the toxicology report. He is showing indications of drug reactions which could very well be why he had two heart attacks in transport to the hospital.

How odd is that? They didn't get a medical history from him while they were choking, beating, swarming and threatening to sic their dog on him before they hit him with a massive dose of ketamine?
tulc(wonders who could have seen something bad happening from that?)

 

[tulc]

This is a list of Elijah McClain last words:

“I can’t breathe.
I have my ID right here. My name is Elijah McClain.
That’s my house. I was just going home.
I’m an introvert. I’m just different. That’s all.
I’m so sorry.
I have no gun. I don’t do that stuff. I don’t do any fighting. Why are you attacking me? I don’t even kill flies! I don’t eat meat! But I don’t judge people, I don’t judge people who do eat meat.
Forgive me.
All I was trying to do was become better. I will do it. I will do anything. Sacrifice my identity, I’ll do it. You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful and I love you.
Try to forgive me.
I’m a mood Gemini. I’m sorry.
I’m so sorry. Ow, that really hurt. You are all very strong. Teamwork makes the dream work.
(*crying*) Oh, I’m sorry I wasn’t trying to do that.
I just can’t breathe correctly.”

- Elijah McClain’s last words, as he was being pinned down by Aurora PD officers before he was injected with Ketamine.

He must have been very confused and scared and instead of helping him they killed him.
tulc("I was just going home")

 

[jgarden]

Quote from the link in the OP

The Aurora Police Department later said that a 911 caller had reported a “suspicious person” in a ski mask, and that when officers confronted McClain — who was not armed and had not committed any kind of crime — he “resisted arrest.”
​

let’s see, summertime and he is walking down the street with a ski mask. Nothing unusual there.

The officers try to stop him and he doesn’t comply.

Don’t misinterpret me, his death is sad, but had he stopped and complied with their lawful orders, he would most likely be still alive today.

Also from the same link:

who subsequently said McClain “resisted contact” and continued down the street.​

In other words he ingnored the police and kept on moving.

Due to the level of physical force applied while restraining the subject and his agitated mental state,” officers then called Aurora First Responders,
​

That is another way of saying he was out of control. Which is why they used a sedative.

if we are going to intellectually honest, we have to look at both sides of what happened.

If I were a member of the police department, the last thing I would want is yet another deadly encounter with an innocent, unarmed young black make and the resulting social unrest and scrutiny that entails!

Given that in a democracy, the law operates under the assumption that the suspect should receive the benefit of the doubt, why would these officers operate under the premise of guilty until proven innocent?

 

[hislegacy]

If I were a member of the police department, the last thing I would want is yet another deadly encounter with an innocent, unarmed young black civilian and the resulting social unrest - given that the law operates under the assumption that the suspect should receive the benefit of the doubt, why would these officers operate under the premise of guilty until proven innocent?

I’ll ask a question.

you are a policeman, you are responding to a call about a suspicious person wearing a ski mask in summer. You find the person and attempt to find out what is going on. He completely ignores you and when you block him from moving, he gets physical with you.

What do you do?

 

[disciple Clint]

If they are calmly walking down the street carrying their grocery sacks and there is a grocery store close by, no I would hope I would do what tulc suggested and just watch. Remember no one reported that he was doing anything wrong. I could go to the grocery store and see if anyone who worked there knew him, which is very likely.
The best way to help this guy and those like him would be to gain his trust.

OK that is what you would do but the police have responsibilites beyond that. So lets go with you actions you do not make contact, so you do not find out that the subject has serious mental problems is at a crisis and is going to go home kill all of his family and himself. What do you think will happen with it is discovered that you were dispatched to check on this person and you did nothing? Like is said the police have a responsibility to follow up on dispatched calls. There is nothing wrong with an officer stopping someone and talking with them, in almost all cases that is as far as it goes. In this case the subject refused to stop and resisted the officer with physical force. It is an unfortunate situation I feel for everyone but it was not what the police officer wanted to have happen and he was doing the job he is paid to do.

 

[disciple Clint]

Victim blaming. "See what you made us do here?"


...choking and beating someone does seem to have that effect on some people.


How odd is that? They didn't get a medical history from him while they were choking, beating, swarming and threatening to sic their dog on him before they hit him with a massive dose of ketamine?
tulc(wonders who could have seen something bad happening from that?)

There is just no justificaion for the comments you made, where is the evidence of choking or beating him? A victim is not a victim just because he is black which seems to be the standard now being used. A victim does not assault police. Police are not beating and choking random black people, they respond to the force that is used against them. The subject article indicates: The DA’s office released a letter Friday afternoon stating no charges would be filed against the three officers involved in the case, who have since returned to duty. Police reported a struggle between McClain and three officers upon making contact. One officer accused McClain of reaching for an officer’s gun. In the report, the coroner stated intense physical exertion and a narrow coronary artery contributed to McClain’s death. District Attorney Dave Young said criminal charges would have come if there was indisputable evidence officers used unjustified force, but he said the burden of proof did not exist. Apparently we are now going to have people who make claims of police brutality every time the police need to defend themselves.

 

[tulc]

I’ll ask a question.

you are a policeman, you are responding to a call about a suspicious person wearing a ski mask in summer. You find the person and attempt to find out what is going on. He completely ignores you and when you block him from moving, he gets physical with you.

What do you do?

uhmmm....swarm him, choke him and threaten to sic a dog on him, drug him and kill him? Then blame him for dying?
tulc(apparently that's how it's supposed to be done)

 

[Broken Fence]

These news articles are way to common.

 

[tulc]

(snip)A victim is not a victim just because he is black (snip)

But if he's dead shortly after the police "just check him out"? Oh yeah, he's most definitely a victim.
tulc( )

 

[disciple Clint]

uhmmm....swarm him, choke him and threaten to sic a dog on him, drug him and kill him? Then blame him for dying?
tulc(apparently that's how it's supposed to be done)

Have you read this article because you seem to have facts that are not supported in it and you also are ignoring the report of the coroner, and the district attorney. He appeared to be having a reaction to drugs when he was acting out prior to police contact.

 

[jgarden]

I’ll ask a question.

you are a policeman, you are responding to a call about a suspicious person wearing a ski mask in summer. You find the person and attempt to find out what is going on. He completely ignores you and when you block him from moving, he gets physical with you.

What do you do?

A suspect should not die at the hands of the police while under their care - repeated video evidence of such incidents reveal that the old "standby" of resisting arrest often doesn't stand up to scrutiny and that the amount of force employed is often unwarranted!

The police, like all professionals, are expected to act in a firm but respectful manner when dealing with the public irrespective of the provocation and circumstances that may exist!

 

[disciple Clint]

But if he's dead shortly after the police "just check him out"? Oh yeah, he's most definitely a victim.
tulc( )

Well then of course it has to be the police that caused his death, it could not be the drugs that he consumed or the fact that he has a preexisting medical condition or that he decided to take on the police because in his drug influenced mind he thinks he is superman. No by golly blame the police, by the way did you know that the families of several people who died while in police custody got big checks, yup it does not even have to be the fault of the police all you have to do is hire an attorney who will no doubt contact you as soon as the papers publish the story.

 

[disciple Clint]

A suspect should not die at the hands of the police while under their care - repeated video evidence of such incidents reveal that the old "standby" of resisting arrest often doesn't stand up to scrutiny and that the amount of force employed is often unwarranted!

The police, like all professionals, are expected to act in a firm but respectful manner when dealing with the public irrespective of the provocation and circumstances that may exist!

And it is also proven that even when the police act in a firm but respectful manner they will still be blamed by the victim culture.

 

[tulc]

Well then of course it has to be the police that caused his death,

hmmm...walking home carrying groceries, stopped by the police, couple minutes later he's brain dead in the back of an ambulance. Yeah, I'm going to say the police caused his death.

it could not be the drugs that he consumed

Interesting, could you list which drugs he had in his system? I'm pretty sure we'd all be interested in knowing them.

or the fact that he has a preexisting medical condition

That would something to know before you throw a choke hold on someone, wouldn't it? Or knowing someone has social anxiety problems that makes them panic pretty badly if people grab them or swarm them? Or suddenly fill their system with a drug that they don't know might have a bad interaction with other medications they may be on?

or that he decided to take on the police because in his drug influenced mind he thinks he is superman.

so we're back to those "drugs" you know he has been taking, now I'm really interested in seeing that list you have.

No by golly blame the police, (snip)

huh, let's do the math: one young black male guilty of the crime of...well I guess wearing a ski mask at the wrong time of year add a couple of police officers, throw in a choke hold and a dose of ketamine, if we add all those together what do we get? oh right, a dead body.
tulc(is looking forward to seeing that list of drugs he had in his system)

 

[disciple Clint]

hmmm...walking home carrying groceries, stopped by the police, couple minutes later he's brain dead in the back of an ambulance. Yeah, I'm going to say the police caused his death.


Interesting, could you list which drugs he had in his system? I'm pretty sure we'd all be interested in knowing them.


That would something to know before you throw a choke hold on someone, wouldn't it? Or knowing someone has social anxiety problems that makes them panic pretty badly if people grab them or swarm them? Or suddenly fill their system with a drug that they don't know might have a bad interaction with other medications they may be on?


so we're back to those "drugs" you know he has been taking, now I'm really interested in seeing that list you have.


huh, let's do the math: one young black male guilty of the crime of...well I guess wearing a ski mask at the wrong time of year add a couple of police officers, throw in a choke hold and a dose of ketamine, if we add all those together what do we get? oh right, a dead body.
tulc(is looking forward to seeing that list of drugs he had in his system)

Guilty of the crime of resisting and assaulting police, when there was not reason to do so. All he needed to do was talk to the officer. He elected to initiate the assault, he should be the one considering his medical condition before he starts a fight, Bottom line which you seem to not accept is that the officers were cleared of any wrong doing, you just do not want to accept it. What is the point of creating a false victim scenario?

 

[tulc]

Guilty of the crime of resisting and assaulting police, when there was not reason to do so.

So...he was tried in a court of law, convicted and sentenced to death for those? Because I don't think it was much of a trial if it took less than an hour after being stopped he was brain dead. For wearing a ski mask.

All he needed to do was talk to the officer.

I wasn't aware it was a capital crime to have social anxiety, something that would make "talking to an officer" standing close to him pretty difficult.

He elected to initiate the assault,

They grabbed his arm. They started the fight, not him.

he should be the one considering his medical condition before he starts a fight,

see above, he didn't start the fight, they did.

Bottom line which you seem to not accept is that the officers were cleared of any wrong doing,

ahhh...the ever popular "We investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong."

you just do not want to accept it.

why should I?

What is the point of creating a false victim scenario?

Because there wasn't a "false" victim brain dead in the back of the ambulance. There was a real one.
tulc(noticed there wasn't a list of the "drugs he consumed" in disciple Clint's post)

 

[disciple Clint]

So...he was tried in a court of law, convicted and sentenced to death for those? Because I don't think it was much of a trial if it took less than an hour after being stopped he was brain dead. For wearing a ski mask.



I wasn't aware it was a capital crime to have social anxiety, something that would make "talking to an officer" standing close to him pretty difficult.


They grabbed his arm. They started the fight, not him.


see above, he didn't start the fight, they did.


ahhh...the ever popular "We investigated ourselves and found we did nothing wrong."


why should I?


Because there wasn't a "false" victim brain dead in the back of the ambulance. There was a real one.
tulc(noticed there wasn't a list of the "drugs he consumed" in disciple Clint's post)

it would not make a difference what I did nor did not provide you have no desire to think of this event beyond what you have voiced.