Are we to assume that man was first developed without consciousnesses, morality, etc.
that he had to learn these things? I am looking at the capacity to have these--not how they may have developed.
What was the starting material for these? Why don't the animals that man evolved from show this progression too?
No one ever will...
We share a common designer...
Mutating from what to what...?
The fossil record shows life burst onto the scene fully formed.
Further, the late heavy bombardment has life being exterminated and repeatedly beginning quickly numerous times, each time being fully formed...the exact opposite of what evolution would predict.
We would predict that a single designer would use the same materials in His design.
This is what we find in the fossil record.
The fact that mutations occur and some micro evolution, does not change the cold hard fact that species are still separate from each other, after their own kind, just as stated in the Holy Bible.
Common ancestor...or common designer...?
Common designer...
I got a sneaking suspicion your expecting something like 'half-eye', or 'half-hand'. Sry, no. Evolution doesnt work that way.
Its merely a slight modification of a current species that builds up over time resulting in speciation.
The Fossil record, as well as experiments in the lab have provided overwhelming evidence to attest to this.
Evolution doesn't work, period.
How much time?
Google these "lab experiments" for us...
Could you please provide a Koranic passage which supports this Islamic theology....thanks...
<H1 class=plus2>Observed Instances of Speciation
by Joseph BoxhornCopyright © 1993-2004
[Last Update: September 1, 1995]
I see someone is committed to plugging his fingers in his ears, and ignoring the obvious.
It is little wonder that talkorigins is a dead website.
Alot has changed in a decade.
The old paradigms have been crushed.
The old darwinism mindset is bust....and now is only held by the ignorant.
Your so-called googled "evidences" have been abandoned with the 20th century.
Why not google us something recent...that "supports" your position...
Take a look at this evidence...
Finally, and most important, the root “ilaha” (the very origin of the word “allah” itself) means” the serpent; or the great serpent”
It is crystal clear, from the very etymology of the word “allah” itself, that this is a description of Satan, himself.
You know what! Sometimes, I feel that your responses are like a group of people writing the same post. Because your answers are contradictory. Here you are saying that Allah ( the Almighty) is a serpent and in another line you are saying that prophet Muhammed ( peace be upon him) is Jesus ( peace be upon him) and at the end you are saying that Allah ( The Great ) is Jesus and the Holy Quran is a translation of Judasim and Christianity.
So, after reading all your posts I came to a conclusion that you are not with any Holy religion neither Islam nor Christianity or Judasim.
And you are trying to convince us of your religion of worshipping satan by filling your hopes in the words of Allah/God.
This conclusion came after noticing the times of mentioning the word serpent in many times. And because of deceptiveness, you can't say directly that Allah/God ( the Almighty ) and Jesus ( peace be upon him) are serpents cause you are pretending to be Christian and you are not.
Any clever reader will notice this. How you gathered all the Holy religions in a way to say that they are fake and we are worshipping the devil instead of Allah/God in a way to mix poision with honey to poision us with your thoughts that we should worship the devil.
Any faithful Muslim, Christian or Jewish will notice this after reading your posts.
And they will notice that you are trying to seperate us apart cause you are so afraid of us being together and you will lose the chance of inviting people to your religion of worshipping the devil.
You didn't give me any answer about Christianity or even Judasim which shows that you know nothing about them and you are an enemy of the 3 Holy religions.
If you are not so sure of your path why do you invite us to join it?
If you are not so proud of it to reveal what it is, why do you hide then?
The funny thing is that some people are trying hard to hide the sun with their hands but they cant cause it is the Light of Allah/God.
Read your own responses in red to see how contradictory they are.
It is little wonder that the “allah” of the Koran is incapable of the following…
Clearly…
- Unable to state in the first-person singular that he created anything
- Unable to state in the first-person singular that he is the First and the Last
- Unable to state anywhere in the entire Koran that it is divinely inspired
The Triune Creator God of the Holy Bible is the true God.
Jesus Christ is the one true God.
The god of the Koran is no more than a pagan Arab god dressed-up to look like the Biblical God.
“Allah”, as the great serpent, is expressed here rather dramatically…
See how you made the a of allah into upper case A when it came to serpents???
إن شانئك هو الأبتر
Inna shani-aka huwa al-abtaru
108.3 Truly your hater and enemy, he, the serpent.
The authors of the Koran state quite clearly that Jesus Christ is God.
The Koranic "Muhammad" refers to the Biblical Jesus Christ.
It is good that you are looking to Biblical texts in your search for truth.
I thank Allah/God that I was born a Muslim having the truth since I was a child and looking for my brothers and sisters to be one unit of power and truth.
Genesis is a great place to start.
You will notice that the Hebrew word used for God in this verse is “Elohim”…..not “allah”.
Because they are different languages and even though they sound the same.
Further, “Elohim” is plural, not singular.
Would you please mention some verses from Moses Law as an evidence.
Hence, from the very first verse, in the very first book of the Holy Bible, we are told that the creator God of the Universe is plural in nature.
Does this sound like your “allah”?
Allah is different than allah. Cause Allah is a God and He is not plural.
Is your “allah” plural?
Surah 112. The Unity, Sincerity, Oneness Of Allah
1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; 4. And there is none like unto Him.
Further, don’t be afraid to show some context…
“Day” One: Genesis 1:1 – 1:5
In the beginningcreated God the heavens and the earth; and the earth was without form and empty, and darkness on the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was brooding on the face of the waters. Then said God, Let be light and was light. And saw God the light that good (it was) and separated God between the light and the darkness. And called God the light Day. And the darkness He called Night; and was the mixing and was the breaking forth time one.
1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
He Allah/God himself said I. He didn't say We.
And if you are saying that Allah/God is saying We. It doesn't mean that He is more than One. It is to show that the speaker is not the prophet Muhammed ( peace be upon him) this is the only way in Arabic language to understand that the speaker is not Muhammed ( peace be upon him).
Read the following:
Surah 2. The Cow
21. O ye people! Adore your Guardian-Lord, who created you and those who came before you, that ye may have the chance to learn righteousness;
22. Who has made the earth your couch, and the heavens your canopy; and sent down rain from the heavens; and brought forth therewith Fruits for your sustenance; then set not up rivals unto Allah when ye know (the truth).
23. And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.
If you notice in the first verse that Allah/God istalking to people in Muhammed's tongue. Because what will the people do if they heard the word adore us. They will say that Muhammed is asking people to worship him???
Genesis creation “day 1” states that God is plural….i.e. He has a Spirit, and a Word with which He creates.
1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Surah 66. Banning, Prohibition
12. And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants). Surah 19. Mary
17. She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.
18. She said: "I seek refuge from thee to ((Allah)) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah."
19. He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.
In Arabic it doesn't say holy but it says pure of sins and so again a problem of translation.
20. She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?" 21. He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us':It is a matter decreed."
1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.The angel who is the Holy Spirit is talking to Mary about Allah/God and the angel didn't say We.
1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
1:29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
In both Holy Books they didn't say that Allah/God is not One. But the ones who added their spices forgot that the spices are not matching the dish. How dare peopel change the word of Allah/God???
Since you want this Biblical verse to apply to your “allah”, then you have no choice to believe that “allah” is also plural in nature and that he has a Spirit and a Word that he uses to create.
No Holy religion asked its followers to believe in this idea but it is people who want us to follow the path of the devil.
To Be Continued
To ApplePie7 from dnihila:
This is what you mentioned in one of your posts:
إن شانئك هو الأبتر
Inna shani-aka huwa al-abtar
108.3 Truly your hater and enemy, he, the serpent.
Surah 108. Abundance, Plenty
1. To thee have We granted the Fount (of Abundance).
2. Therefore to thy Lord turn in Prayer and Sacrifice. 3. For he who hateth thee, he will be cut off (from Future Hope).
See the underlined line. This is the true translation for the verse.
So, I may ask you to check your resources before you mention any. And I don't think that the reader is so stupid to believe anyone without going back to the real resources.
See how you made the a of allah into upper case A when it came to serpents???
Genesis is a great place to start.
You will notice that the Hebrew word used for God in this verse is Elohim ..not allah.
Because they are different languages and even though they sound the same.
What?
Further, Elohim is plural, not singular.
Would you please mention some verses from Moses Law as an evidence.
Any Biblical Hebrew Lexicon will show you that "Elohim" is plural.
This is fact.
Thus, if you want to somehow think that your "allah" fits this bill, then you will have to make "him" plural.
Hence, from the very first verse, in the very first book of the Holy Bible, we are told that the creator God of the Universe is plural in nature.
Does this sound like your allah?
Allah is different than allah. Cause Allah is a God and He is not plural.
From the very first verse in the Holy Bible, we can tell that the pagan Arab god "allah" is not the true Biblical creator God of the Holy Bible.
The authors of the Koran knew this...and they made sure that "allah" was impotent in creation power.
Time for you to re-evaluate the islamic paradigm...
Shame noone has told scientists in biology about this.
Good. I assume such a bold statement can be confirmed by evolution being discredited in scientific journals.
Why? Have you found scientific journals that discredit what Ive posted?
إن شانئك هو الأبتر
Inna shani-aka huwa al-abtaru
108.3 Truly your hater and enemy, he, the serpent.
I am wondering why you add u at the end of the verse in the word al-abtar we read it without adding the u sound because it is at the end of the verse. This is a rule we follow in reading all the verses and that's why thoses verses are divided.
Defining the terms
إن= inna
inna definition:
One of the particles which annul the quality of the inchoative: it is a corroborative particle, corroborating the predicate; governing the subject in the accusative case and the predicate in the nominative case; and may generally be rendered by verily, or certainly, or the like; exactly agreeing with the Greek hoti, as used in Luke 7.16 and in many other passages in the New Testament; though it often seems to be nothing more than a sign of inception, which can hardly be rendered at all in English; unless in pronunciation, by laying stress upon the predicate, or upon the copula. It must be used when it occurs inceptively, having nothing before it upon which is syntactically dependent, with respect to the wording or meaning. Introduces the subject.
References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, pp. 103 111
A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 1, p. 285
The Dictionary of the Holy Quran, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, p. 35
Introducing the first attribute of the subject
شانئ= shani
shani definition:
Active participle, masculine singular. One who hates. Hating, or a hater, and an enemy. Insulter, enemy, foe, adversary, antagonist.
شانئك= shani + aka = shani-aka = your hater and enemy
It comes from the root shanaa (shiin-nun-alif), which means he hated him: he hated him vehemently; to hate, loathe.
References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume four, pp. 1603 - 1604
The Dictionary of the Holy Quran, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar pp. 283; 298 - 299
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 79
Concordance of the Koran, Gustav Flugel, p. 103
Occurrences of shani-aka in the Koran: 1
Location: 108.3
Occurrences of the root shanaa and its two derivatives in the Koran: 3
Locations: 5.2, 5.8, 108.3
Observe the Koranic usages
- 5.2 shanaanu hatred/commit sin
- 5.8 shanaanu hatred/commit sin
Introducing the second attribute of the subject
هو = huwa
huwa definition:
He; it. It is an indeclinable personal pronoun of the third person, masculine singular.
References:
A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 1, p. 54
The Dictionary of the Holy Quran, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar p. 596
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 155
And finally, the subject of this ayah
أبتر= abtaru
abtaru definition:
2nd declension, masculine noun. Without offspring or progeny; childless; bob; one without issue; one in want; poor; defective; imperfect; one from whom all good is cut off. (A tail cut off entirely. Any beast having the tail cut off: or having either the whole or a part of the tail cut off; having the tail cut, or amputated, in any place. A certain malignant, or noxious serpent: or a short-tailed serpent: or a certain species of blue serpent, having its tail (as it were) cut off, which none in the state of pregnancy sees without casting her burden: or the kind of serpent having a short tail: no one sees it without fleeing from it, and no one in a state of pregnancy beholds it without casting her young: it is thus called only because of the shortness of its tail, as though its tail were cut off. A leathern water-bag, and a bucket, having no loop. Defective, deficient, incomplete, or imperfect. In want, poor. Suffering loss. One from whom all good, or prosperity, is cut off. Having no offspring, or progeny. Anything cut off, or anything of which the effect is cut off, from good, or prosperity.)
الأبتر= al + abtaru = al-abtaru = the serpent
It comes from the root batara (ba-ta-ra), which means he cut, or cut off, a thing before it was complete: or he cut, or cut off, in any manner: or he cut off (a tail or the like) entirely, or utterly. He (any beast) had his tail cut off: or had either the whole or part of his tail cut off; had his tail cut, or amputated, in any place: to cut off the tail, curtail, bobtail.
References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume one, p. 149
The Dictionary of the Holy Quran, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar p. 41
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 14
Concordance of the Koran, Gustav Flugel, p. 27
Occurrences of al-abtaru in the Koran: 1
Location: 108.3
Occurrences of the root batara and its one derivative in the Koran: 1
Location: 108.3
Summary of 108.3:
I knew that there were a mistake somewhere and I found plenty.
- In Revelation chapter 12, John is shown a vision in heaven of a pregnant female (gune) about to bear a Son, the male (arsen)
- This Son is the Shepherd for the nations, and He is brought to God and to His singular (autos) throne.
- This Son is none other than Jesus Christ, God incarnate, brought forth through mankind
- John tells us that a Dragon drakon has been cast from Heaven and stands before the pregnant female
- The classic definition tells us that the genitive masculine noun, drakon, is a huge and fabulous kind of serpent
- Chapter 12 further informs us that this huge serpent is also called the Devil, Satan, and the Serpent (ophis), and that these terms are used interchangeably
- The classic definition for the genitive masculine noun, ophis, also relates to us a serpent; an artful malicious person; and is metaphorically used for evil character
- This serpent is also said to have great anger (thumos) related to the female and all of her offspring, for his time is short
- The serpents rage is directed towards the followers of God (Theos) and Jesus (Iesous)
- Revelation informs us that the great serpent can be overcome through the Blood of the Lamb (i.e. Jesus)
- We are also told that the female flees from the serpent, into the wilderness
- Thus, we have Revelation chapter 12 describing this
First, the explanation of the animal without a tail is mentioned in another branch of Islam which is not a Sunni branch.
Second, I found the word servant of the Lord in the explanations and not Serpent.
You may have a look at the following posts.