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MJ Only What was the purpose of cleaning out the Chametz?

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by Lulav, Feb 14, 2018.

  1. Lulav

    Lulav I've heard it both ways.. Staff Member Administrator Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Please note this is for MJ's only. Other posts will be deleted.

    So, thinking about the coming Passover as I like to get as much a head start as possible and the older I get the more time I need! This year It starts on April Fools day not that I find that significant but it goes from 1st to 8th of April (starting on March 31st at sundown).

    Anyway I was wondering if any of our members here have ever thought about 'why' all the leavened foods must be removed from the domicile?

    Was it not enough to forbid eating it but also the need to have it removed from your dwelling place?

    Was it to be done the way it is today, with no crumb left at all?

    What about if a mouse sneaks into your house with a bit of bagel he found outside the house? I know you're to burn it but what if it came from one of your gentile neighbors?

    And yeast really can't be removed from most places as it is an animal and organism that floats in the air.

    And the commandment isn't just to remove the leavened bread but to eat unleavened bread for seven days. So you can't get away with just not eating bread for a week.

    Was the removal of the bread to make sure it wasn't handy for anyone to eat? Or was its' presence a problem also?

    In this passage there are two commandments

    1.Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; (This is a possitive one to eat Matzah)

    2.even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses:
    for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.
     
  2. Lulav

    Lulav I've heard it both ways.. Staff Member Administrator Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Some more thoughts

    The passage I posted above from Exodus 12 in Hebrew reads

    שבעת ימים מצות תאכלו אך ביום הראשון תשביתו שאר מבתיכם כי ׀ כל־אכל חמץ
    ונכרתה הנפש ההוא מישראל מיום הראשן עד־יום השבעי׃


    I've used the un-punctuated version to show what I saw.

    Here it is reading from right to left

    Seven days Matzah shall-you-eat even day first you-shall-put-away leaven from-your-houses for whoever eats chametz then-shall-be-cut soul that from Israel from-the-day first until day seventh

    (Words that are strung together with dashes are showing the English equivalent in more English words that used in the single Hebrew word)

    The word I've highlighted in the Hebrew תשביתו and the equivalent translation in English 'you-shall-put-away' is what I'd like to address.

    The Hebrew words is a form of the word Shabat

    to cease, desist, rest

    Also translated as
    brought to an end (1), cease (21), ceased (7), ceases (3), did away (2), disappear (1), do away (1), eliminate (3), gone (1), hear...more (1), lacking (1), left you without (1), made an end (1), make an end (1), no* (1), observe (1), observe the rest (1), put a stop (3), put an end (3), puts an end (1), remove (2), removed (1), rest (3), rested (3), silence (1), stop (2), stopped (1).


    תשביתו
     
  3. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Circumcision of the Heart is Messianic

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    Isn't the primary point to abstain from eating leavened(also an allegory) bread? Is not this commandment also an allegory in that our house can also be thought of as our own body in which dwells our soul. So even the first day we shall "cease, make an end, stop" from digesting the leaven(allegory) of this world that can so easily corrupt our mind/soul.

    What if we have physically removed all evidence of leaven from our house, but as a Messianic Jew have not committed to the removable of any influential leaven(allegory) from our mind for 7 Feast days. What if we just can't resist watching a few TV programs (news, sports, netflex, etc) during those 7 days that we know are distracting and not beneficial to renewing our mind/soul from the worldly chatter(leaven) that invades our house via worldly leaven.
    Hopefully, 7 days of unleavened bread(as an allegory) will help renew our mind/soul so that by the time we're 30 (or 40 or 50) we've "ceased, made an end, stopped" from chasing after the leaven of this world for more than just 7 days once a year.
     
  4. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    This is what I've supposed. Being cut off over an accident would be devastating. It's best not to take any chances. Even so, How long would leavened bread even keep in those days? I would suppose that they had to bake it every day.
     
  5. HARK!

    HARK! Well-Known Member

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    The analogy that I've heard again and again ( I haven't dug deeply into an investigation) compares leaven to being puffed up with pride. That one makes good sense to me. We are to be humble before Yahweh.
     
  6. CherubRam

    CherubRam My name is Michael, I am a Judaic Christian.

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    The purpose of removing the yeast was to remove temptation.
     
  7. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

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    The objective is not to eat leaven bread, but only the bread of affliction. Hashem broadens this to forbidding the eating of all leaven. He then commands to clean our house of leavening -- obviously to avoid the temptation to cook leavened bread.

    The Rabbis simply did what Rabbis do: they built a fence around the Torah, so that we would not even come close to breaking the law, lest we break it accidentally. Thus, we sweep even the leavened crumbs from our shelves.

    Personally, I think it goes too far by insisting that things like corn syrup is leavening when it is not. But you know, being a Jew is to be a part of a people. You don't use your own individual interpretation like Protestants do. You function as a member of a community. And if that means removing the cough medicine with the corn syrup in it, so be it! :)
     
  8. Rachel Rachel

    Rachel Rachel Regular Member

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    Not to be a distraction but just a couple of quick questions.... doesn't Passover start on March 30th at sunset, not the 31st?
    Also, do you all eat tortillas during the week of unleavened bread?
     
  9. Rachel Rachel

    Rachel Rachel Regular Member

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    ???
     
  10. Lulav

    Lulav I've heard it both ways.. Staff Member Administrator Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Yes, 30th but also 31st too in the Diaspora. :)

    I'm not sure about your tortilla questions though, I eat gluten free matzah.
     
  11. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

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    Flour tortillas are not kosher for Passover (they use baking soda). Corn tortillas might be kosher for Passover provided they have no wheat flour and your Sephardic rather than Ashkenazic in heritage.
     
  12. .Mikha'el.

    .Mikha'el. Mod Queue Spam Troll Banner Extraordinaire! Staff Member Supervisor Supporter

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    I've always understood it this way too. If it's not around to eat, one can't eat it and violate the ordinances surrounding the occasion.
     
  13. Lulav

    Lulav I've heard it both ways.. Staff Member Administrator Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    If that's the case it begs the question of 'Spring Cleaning' and the search for the smallest crumb which I don't think anyone would find, pick up and eat.

    I'm getting that the ordinance is for two things:

    1. No leaven in the body
    2. No leaven in the house surrounding the body


    Which leads me to wonder about that first keeping of the Passover, since they only had manna................
     
  14. AbbaLove

    AbbaLove Circumcision of the Heart is Messianic

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    The manna from heaven was unleavened bread in the purest sense of the Word, implying that Israel remove the desire/temptation for worldly(Egypt/foreigners) leavened bread(allegory) from their soul(mind) once established in the Promised Land.

    Deuteronomy 8:3
    And He humbled you and let you hunger and fed you with manna, that you did not know, nor did your fathers know, that He might make you know that man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD.

    Isn't it generally understood that the timeline from the first celebration of Passover-Unleavened Bread in the wildreness to the next Passover celebration wasn't until 39 years later when the Israelites entered the Promised Land.
     
  15. Rachel Rachel

    Rachel Rachel Regular Member

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    What do you eat - just the crisp matza for the entire week of unleavened bread?
    What do you think about this recipe for unleavened flatbread that I sometimes make?
    2 cups flour
    1 teasp salt
    1 tablespoon oil
    1 cup water
    Mix it up, let it rest for 10 minutes, roll it out into 12 rounds. Cook them in a very hot skillet with no oil.
    Would these be okay for the week of unleavened bread? Did God specify a bunch of rules for making unleavened bread?
     
  16. Open Heart

    Open Heart Messianic Jewish Catholic

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    For bread, yes, I strictly eat the matzah labeled kosher for passover. Not only does God prohibit any leavening (and even with just flour and water bread can leaven if it is not baked right away at a very high temperature) but the rabbis (the elders/judges as per Deuteronomy 17) have ruled specifically on what is kosher for passover so that there is no doubt where the boundaries are.
     
  17. pinacled

    pinacled Newbie

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    “He committed no sin,
    nor was any deceit found on his lips.”



    but lips informed by knowledge are a precious jewel.
     
  18. BukiRob

    BukiRob Newbie

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    No, he did not. He said don't eat it. Nothing about recipes etc. If you read Deut 16:4 merely removing it from your house does not even begin to cover the decree. For seven days no leaven shall be seen with you in all your territory, This was a command for the whole nation for the whole LAND. In fact, when I examined the English translation on Biblehub they all translated it as either territory or BOARDERS.... this is clearly an admonition for the LAND.
     
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