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Featured What was Gods first thought?

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Cement, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. Cement

    Cement Active Member

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    This is mere speculation here but heres my thoughts and you can add in. In Genesis it starts with the saying In the Beginning God created. Now this is the account of the beginning of the creation of our world. What state was God in before he created the world? What was his first thought process if it were to be before the creation account? If Gods will always existed and he never changes then his thoughts were according to his will and he foreknew them when he created the spacetime matrix then he was at both ends of thinking and doing at the same time?
     
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  2. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Well-Known Member

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    There cannot be "first" if He always existed.
     
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  3. Mel333

    Mel333 Active Member

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    (Correction) Wisdom was always there to begin with. :)

    Proverbs 8:22-31

    "I, wisdom, was with the Lord when he began his work, long before he made anything else.
    23 I was created in the very beginning, even before the world began.
    24 I was born before there were oceans, or springs overflowing with water,
    25 before the hills were there, before the mountains were put in place.
    26 God had not made the earth or fields, not even the first dust of the earth.
    27 I was there when God put the skies in place, when he stretched the horizon over the oceans,
    28 when he made the clouds above and put the deep underground springs in place.
    29 I was there when he ordered the sea not to go beyond the borders he had set. I was there when he laid the earth's foundation.
    30 I was like a child by his side. I was delighted every day, enjoying his presence all the time,
    31 enjoying the whole world, and delighted with all its people.

    Also, I don't think God is in a dimension of time so it would be hard for our brains to understand that. We believe in a beginning and an end. Perhaps the Lord is just there from the beginning and is the end. The alpha and omega verse comes to mind.

    Revelation 22:13
    I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

    I always just view the Lord as life itself. He does not have an ending nor can he be destroyed or dies. He's just life in his essence. So life's purpose is to create things and life is love. He would have made the dimension of time. Time has a beginning and an end. He'd be beyond that dimension and was always there and our brains can't understand because we are mortal.

    God's first thoughts at the very beginning sounds like he was very delighted in creating and designing the universe, the world and its people.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
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  4. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God is infinite and God is a singularity. God took the universe and crunched it to less then the size of a mustard seed. Neil Degrass Tyson talks about this in his recent book. The universe is finite and a dichotomy. There is corruption and decay and eventual "death".

    Beginning in the Hebrew means that God wants to become a part of His Creation. The letter B means tent or dwelling. BE means ben or son. So we read that the Son was given as a grain offering so that Heaven and Earth could be reconciled. Jesus teaches us to pray that Thy Kingdom Come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. The Bible starts with the letter B that represents the Son. The letter A represents God the Father. Jesus reflects the Father. He is the alpha and the omega. The beginning and the end. We are told that God knows the end from the beginning. Just like you can not have an end without a beginning and a beginning without an end. The first letter in the Bible represents the incarnation. God becoming a part of His Creation. This sets the tone for the rest of the word and the rest of the first chapter in Genesis that is all about beginnings. Genesis chapter two is about the generation. Genesis chapter three is about adam and eve, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and the serpent.
     
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  5. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Well-Known Member

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    There wasn't a time where God had no wisdom.
     
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  6. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    In proverbs 8, it says before the great works of old He drew out wisdom from within Him.

    Since the way it is described is similar to how eve was taken out of adam, it sounds perhaps mysterious enough to fit the bill.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
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  7. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Of course, wisdom was drawn out from within Him, very similar to the rib from Adam.
     
  8. David Cabrera

    David Cabrera Well-Known Member

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    Wisdom is Jesus.
     
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  9. Mel333

    Mel333 Active Member

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    Good point! He was always wisdom to begin with.
     
  10. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    First means one - a singularity. Science says "In the center of a black hole is a gravitational singularity". That is why we read in Genesis 1:3 "And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light." Children are born when the women begins to contraction. The universe began with a contraction. We are told that one becomes two so that it can become one. Just like God made male and female so they could be united back together and become one. Genesis 2:4 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." God wants to become one with His Creation. So we have day and night, light and darkness and this is the first day. 1 John 1:5 "God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all."
     
  11. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    The question is what was God thinking concerning the material creation. Several scriptures suggest that God created the universe for the angels, the earth in particular as a 'pleasure garden' for them. So he was thinking of them and how pleased they would be, especially Lucifer.
     
  12. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is a library in Heaven that contains all wisdom, knowledge and understanding. Proverbs 3:19 "The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens."
     
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  13. Radagast

    Radagast has left CF

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    Since God is outside time, that question makes no sense.
     
  14. (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ)

    (° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) Well-Known Member Supporter

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    When you are talking about an eternal and uncreated being who have always existed, it is possible for that being to have a "first thought". Did God never have any thoughts prior to creation?
     
  15. pdudgeon

    pdudgeon Traditional Catholic

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    His first thought process would have been self awareness--I AM, because God's creative process begins with His thought, and everything that exists begins from that point.
     
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  16. timothyu

    timothyu Well-Known Member

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    Why would you assume God was restricted to this universe? He could have been quite active outside of it for a long time before He created it. Genesis refers to the creation of this visible universe only.
     
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  17. Radagast

    Radagast has left CF

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    God cannot have had a "first thought." God is eternal.
     
  18. com7fy8

    com7fy8 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    And we need to not be restricted to this universe, but seek first the kingdom of God.

    "You are not restricted by us, but you are restricted by your own affections." (2 Corinthians 6:12)

    But God does have a purpose for what He does.

    "For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." (Romans 8:29)

    Our Father and Jesus were before creation. And our Father is so delighted with His Son, that He desired to have "many" who are like Jesus so pleasing. So, I think this is what motivated God to create the universe, where He can beget and bring up children like Jesus.

    So, it was not only about a thought, but love.

    "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was," Jesus prayed (John 17:5).
     
  19. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Well-Known Member

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    You have to remember that time itself is as much within the realm of creation as we are, and that the first sentence in Genesis is literally the beginning of creation. God doesn't think as we do, he doesn't contemplate as we do, such language used in Scripture is anthropomorphic. God was, is, and will be perfect before, throughout, and after the end of all time, with no change whatsoever occurring in himself. We speak of an eternal counsel between the three members of the Trinity, but that is just language and should not be taken strictly literal.

    What was God doing before creation? He was. Simply put. He doesn't need to be in a state of mind, or exist for a frame of time, to be himself in complete perfection. We are creatures, we depend on time, space, and matter for our existence, movements, progress and growth. He is simply God, no need for anything else. It is beyond our finite minds to grasp the God the way God knows himself. We know only bits about him, being so infinite, that it is enough to satisfy our end for all eternity.

    So to answer your question, God's thoughts were perfect and unchanged. Creation didn't change anything, it was simply the materializing of what he eternally purposed.
     
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  20. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    I tend to see wisdom as the Holy Spirit.
     
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