CrystalDragon

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I've been looking into a few of the commonly-cited Bible verses that show Jesus is the Messiah and finding some things that don't fit, plus Jews apparently don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah.

So what are the verses that show it, as far as prophecies that Jesus fulfilled and the Bible verses that tie into it? I'm having doubts and wondering if what I've thought was right (that Jesus is the Messiah) was wrong...
 

SkyWriting

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(If this is in the wrong section, feel free to move it.)

I've been looking into a few of the commonly-cited Bible verses that show Jesus is the Messiah and finding some things that don't fit, plus Jews apparently don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah.

So what are the verses that show it, as far as prophecies that Jesus fulfilled and the Bible verses that tie into it? I'm having doubts and wondering if what I've thought was right (that Jesus is the Messiah) was wrong...


Likely most Jews do not. Still, Jews are known for doing research:

Ruth 4:4-9
2 Samuel 7:12-16
Psalms 2:1-12
Psalms 16:8-11
Psalms 22:1-31
Psalms 69
Psalms 110:1-4
Psalms 118:22-24
Psalms 118:25-29
Isaiah 7:14
Isaiah 9:1-2 [Hebrew Bible, 8:23-9:1]
Isaiah 9:6-7 [Hebrew Bible, 9:5-6]
Isaiah 11:1, Isaiah 53:3
Isaiah 35:5-6
Isaiah 40:3-5
Isaiah 42:1-6
Isaiah 52:13–53:12
Isaiah 61:1-2
Jeremiah 31:15
Jeremiah 31:31
Daniel 7:13-14
Daniel 9:24-27
Hosea 11:1
Micah 5:2 [Hebrew Bible, verse 1]
Zechariah 9:9
Zechariah 11:12-13
Zechariah 12:10
Malachi 3:1
Malachi 4:5-6

Top 40 Most Helpful Messianic Prophecies - from Jews for Jesus
 
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Greg J.

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When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?” They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. (Matthew 16:13-17, 1984 NIV)

Christ is the Greek word used in place of the Hebrew word, Messiah.
 
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faroukfarouk

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(If this is in the wrong section, feel free to move it.)

I've been looking into a few of the commonly-cited Bible verses that show Jesus is the Messiah and finding some things that don't fit, plus Jews apparently don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah.

So what are the verses that show it, as far as prophecies that Jesus fulfilled and the Bible verses that tie into it? I'm having doubts and wondering if what I've thought was right (that Jesus is the Messiah) was wrong...
Read for example, Psalm 110; Isaiah chapters 9 and 53.
 
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ewq1938

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Joh_4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

Act_13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Php_3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

1Jn_4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
 
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DrBubbaLove

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(If this is in the wrong section, feel free to move it.)

I've been looking into a few of the commonly-cited Bible verses that show Jesus is the Messiah and finding some things that don't fit, plus Jews apparently don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah.

So what are the verses that show it, as far as prophecies that Jesus fulfilled and the Bible verses that tie into it? I'm having doubts and wondering if what I've thought was right (that Jesus is the Messiah) was wrong...
Did you try the Catechism
Catechism of the Catholic Church - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 8

Scripture

Scripture Catholic - MESSIANIC PROPHECIES FULFILLED BY JESUS CHRIST
I. General Prophecies Concerning the Coming of Jesus
Gen. 49:10; Mic. 5:2 - a kingdom and ruler of Israel shall come from Judah - Mattt. 1:1-2, Luke 3:23,33 - Jesus is from the line of Judah.
Deut. 18:18 - He will be raised up as a prophet - Matt. 21:11, Luke 7:16; John 6:14; 7:40 - Jesus is identified as this prophet.
Psalm 2:6 - He will be a King - Matt. 21:5; John 18:36-37 - Jesus is this King.
Psalm 2:7 - you are my Son, today I have begotten you - Matt. 3:17; Acts 13:33 - God the Father said this about Jesus the Son.
Psalm 69:4; Isaiah 49:7 - He will be hated without a cause - John 15:25 - Jesus was hated without a cause.
Psalm 69:9 - zeal for thy house has consumed me - John 2:16-17 - zeal consumed Jesus as He drove out the traders.
Psalm 78:2 - He will speak in parables - Matt. 13:34-35 - Jesus spoke in parables.
Psalm 110:1; Jer. 23:6 - He will be called Lord - Matt. 22:43-45; Luke 2:11; Heb. 1:10 - Jesus is called Lord by the Lord.
Psalm 118:22; Isaiah 8:14; 28:16 - He will be the stone rejected by the builders - Acts 4:10-11; Rom. 9:32-33; 1 Peter 2:7-8 - Jesus is the stone rejected by the builders.
Psalm 118:26; Hag.2:7-9; Mal. 3:1 - He will come to the Temple - Matt. 21:12; John 2:13-17 - Jesus so came to the Temple.
Psalm 132:11; Jer. 23:5 - He, the king, shall come from the House of David - Matt. 1:1; Luke 3:23,31 - Jesus is the son of David.
Isaiah 6:9-10 - they hear but do not understand and see but do not perceive - Matt. 13:14-15; John 12:38-41 - this is why Jesus used parables.
Isaiah 7:14 - He will be born of a young virgin woman - Matt. 1:18, 24-25; Luke 1:26-35 - Jesus was born of the young virgin Mary.
Isaiah 9:1 - His ministry will make Galilee glorious - Matt 4:12-17 - Jesus begins His ministry in Galilee.
Isaiah 9:6 - a woman shall bear a son called Emmanuel ("God is with us") - Luke 1:35 - Jesus is this one, the Son of God.
Isaiah 11:2 - the Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him - Matt. 3:16-17 - the Spirit of God descended upon Jesus like a dove.
Isaiah 32:3-4; 35:5-6- His ministry will include miracles curing the blind, deaf, lame and dumb - Matt. 9:32-35 - Jesus so cured the blind, deaf, lame and dumb.
Isaiah 33:22 - He will be a judge - John 5:30 - Jesus is the judge who judges justly.
Isaiah 40:3; Mal. 3:1 - He will be preceded by a messenger - Mat. 3:1-3; 11:10; Luke 1:17; John 1:23 - Jesus was so preceded (by Saint John the Baptist).
Isaiah 53:3 - He will be rejected by His people - John 1:11; 7:5 - Jesus was rejected by His own people.
Isaiah 61:1-2 - the Spirit of the Lord is upon Him - Luke 4:21 - Jesus says that He has fulfilled this prophecy.
Zech. 9:9 - He will triumphantly enter Jerusalem on an ass - Matt. 21:5; Luke 19:35-38; John 12:14-17 - Jesus so entered Jerusalem.
Mic. 5:2 - Israel's ruler shall come from Bethlehem - Matt. 2:1,4-8; Luke 2:4-7 - Jesus was born in Bethlehem.

II. Prophecies Fulfilled by Jesus in His Passion, Death, Resurrection and Ascension
Psalm 16:10; 30:3 - He will not be spared from death and yet remain incorrupt - Acts 2:31; 13:33,35 - Jesus conquered death and remained incorrupt.
Psalm 22:1 - My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me? - Matt. 27:46; Mark 15:34 - Jesus utters this rabbinical formula from the cross declaring that He is the Messiah.
Psalm 22:7 - the people will wag their heads at Him - Matt. 27:39; Mark 15:29 - the people wagged their heads at Jesus on the cross.
Psalm 22:7 - He will be mocked - Matt. 27:31; Mark 15:20; Luke 22:63; 23:36 - Jesus was mocked.
Psalm 22:16; Isa. 53:12 - He will be numbered with the transgressors - Matt. 27:38; Mark 15:27; Luke 23:32; John 19:18 - Jesus was numbered with the transgressors by being crucified between two thieves.
Psalm 22:16; Zech 12:10 - His hands and feet will be pierced and they will weep for the first-born - John 19:23,34,37 - Jesus' hands and feet were pierced and his followers wept for Him, the true first-born Son of Israel.
Psalm 22:17 - they will stare and gloat over Him - Matt. 27:36; Luke 23:35 - the people stood by and stared at Jesus on the cross.
Psalm 22:18 - they will divide His garments among them - Matt. 27:35; Mark 15:24; Luke 23:34; John 19:23 - they divided Jesus' garments among them.
Psalm 22:18 - they will cast lots for His garments - Matt. 27:35; Mark 15:24; Luke 23:34; John 19:24 - they cast lots for Jesus' garments.
Psalm 30:3; 41:10, 118:17; Hos 6:2 - He will be raised to life on the third day - Acts 13:33, Matt. 28:6; Mark 16:6; Luke 24:34,46 - Jesus was raised to life on the third day.
Psalm 34:20 - He will not have broken bones - John 19:33,36 - none of Jesus' bones were broken.
Psalm 41:9; 55:12-14 - He will be betrayed by a friend - Matt. 10:4; 26:20-25; Mark 14:18-21; John 13:18 - Jesus was betrayed by a friend.
Psalm 68:18 - He will ascend into heaven - Mark 16:19; Luke 24:51; John 20:17; Acts 1:9 - Jesus ascended into heaven.
Psalm 68:20 - He will escape the powers of death - Acts 2:31; 13:33; Matt 28:6; Mark 16:6, Luke 24:46; John 20:9-10 - Jesus escaped the powers of death through his resurrection.
Psalm 69:21 - they will give Him vinegar to drink - Matt. 27:34,48; Mark 15:23,36; Luke 23:36; John 19:29 - they gave Jesus vinegar to drink.
Psalm 110:1 - He will sit at the right hand of God - Heb. 1:3; Acts 2:34-35 - Jesus sits at the right hand of God.
Isaiah 50:6 - He will be spat upon - Matt. 26:67; Mark 15:19 - Jesus was spat upon.
Isaiah 50:6; Mic. 5:1 - the ruler of Israel's cheek will be struck - Matt. 26:67; Luke 22:63; John 18:22 - Jesus was so struck and beaten.
Isaiah 53:5; Zech. 13:6 - He was wounded, bruised and scourged for us - Matt. 27:26; Mark 15:15; John 19:1 - Jesus was wounded, bruised and scourged for us.
Isaiah 53:7 - He will remain silent before His accusers - Matt. 27:12,14; Mark 14:61;15:5; Luke 23:9; John 19:9 - Jesus remained silent before His accusers.
Isaiah 53:8-10; Dan. 9:26 - the anointed one shall be cut off and die - Luke 23:46; 24:7; John 19:30 - Jesus the Messiah died.
Isaiah 53:9 - He will be buried in a rich man's tomb - Matt. 27:57-60; Mark 15:42-46; Luke 23:50-53; John 19:38-42 - Jesus was buried in a rich man's tomb (the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea).
Isaiah 53:12 - He will make intercession for the transgressors - Luke 23:34,43 - Jesus made intercession for the transgressors on the cross.
Amos 8:9 - God will darken the earth at noon - Matt. 27:45; Mark 15:33; Luke 23:44-45 - there was darkness at noon at Jesus' crucifixion and death.
Jonah 1:17 - three nights and days in the belly of the whale foreshadows Jesus' death and rising on the third day.
Mic. 1:8 - He will lament and wail, and will go stripped and naked - John 19:23-24 - Jesus lamented and was stripped and naked.
Zech. 11:12-13 - He will be betrayed for 30 pieces of silver - Matt. 26:15 - Jesus was betrayed for 30 pieces of silver.
Zech. 11:13 - the pieces of silver are cast into God's house - Matt. 27:5 - Judas threw the pieces of silver into the Temple.
Zech. 12:10 - His side will be pierced - John 19:34, 37 - Jesus' side was pierced.
Zech. 13:7 - He will be forsaken by His disciples who will scatter - Matt. 26:31, Mark. 14:50 - Jesus' disciples forsook Him and scattered.
 
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JackRT

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Messiah means literally "anointed one" and was the common way in which the Jews referred to kings of the dynasty of David. "Anointed" refers of course to the method of coronation of the Jewish kings. It translated into the Greek as "Christos". The Jews regarded themselves as a "theocracy"... a kingdom ruled by God. The Jews also envisaged a (metaphorical) throne room in which there were three thrones. God occupied the central throne. At "the right hand of God" was the throne of the "king messiah" who was the reigning king of the house and family of David. At "the left hand of God" was the throne of the "priest messiah" who was the high priest of the house and family of Zadok. Ideally there were always two messiahs who were known collectively as the "sons of God". All these terms, "messiah", "kingdom of God", "at the right hand of God" and "son of God" were political rather than religious statements. It was a later generation of gentile Christians who re-interpreted these phrases in a very different religious sense. Both before and after the death of Jesus the early Christians, who were, after all, practicing Jews, understood these terms in their traditional sense. Jesus in claiming to be the messiah had not committed any blasphemy... there was no religious crime that the high priest could legitimately charge him with. That is why he went to the Romans to do the job.

I should add that I am not entirely convinced that Jesus himself ever claimed to be the messiah but there is no doubt at all that his followers certainly thought that.
 
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ewq1938

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2PhiloVoid

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(If this is in the wrong section, feel free to move it.)

I've been looking into a few of the commonly-cited Bible verses that show Jesus is the Messiah and finding some things that don't fit, plus Jews apparently don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah.

So what are the verses that show it, as far as prophecies that Jesus fulfilled and the Bible verses that tie into it? I'm having doubts and wondering if what I've thought was right (that Jesus is the Messiah) was wrong...

:doh:Crystal, Crystal, Crystal.......goodness gracious, Sis! Be honest, do you read a lot of skeptical literature? And do you do this without also reading some really good Apologetics literature? I'm just wondering.

It may be time for you to start studying hermeneutics, exegesis, and apologetics, as well as some Christian Philosophy, to help yourself buttress your faith against unnecessary doubts.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid
 
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DrBubbaLove

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Messiah means literally "anointed one" and was the common way in which the Jews referred to kings of the dynasty of David. "Anointed" refers of course to the method of coronation of the Jewish kings. It translated into the Greek as "Christos". The Jews regarded themselves as a "theocracy"... a kingdom ruled by God. The Jews also envisaged a (metaphorical) throne room in which there were three thrones. God occupied the central throne. At "the right hand of God" was the throne of the "king messiah" who was the reigning king of the house and family of David. At "the left hand of God" was the throne of the "priest messiah" who was the high priest of the house and family of Zadok. Ideally there were always two messiahs who were known collectively as the "sons of God". All these terms, "messiah", "kingdom of God", "at the right hand of God" and "son of God" were political rather than religious statements. It was a later generation of gentile Christians who re-interpreted these phrases in a very different religious sense. Both before and after the death of Jesus the early Christians, who were, after all, practicing Jews, understood these terms in their traditional sense. Jesus in claiming to be the messiah had not committed any blasphemy... there was no religious crime that the high priest could legitimately charge him with. That is why he went to the Romans to do the job.

I should add that I am not entirely convinced that Jesus himself ever claimed to be the messiah but there is no doubt at all that his followers certainly thought that.
So you would have John 4:25-26 addressing not Jesus but some future as yet coming Messiah?
 
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JackRT

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So you would have John 4:25-26 addressing not Jesus but some future as yet coming Messiah?

I think it obvious that John the Evangelist thought that Jesus was the Messiah. However he wrote very late in the first century, some 60 to 70 years after the crucifixion, and I doubt that he is quoting the words of Jesus or that he was an eyewitness.
 
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DrBubbaLove

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I think it obvious that John the Evangelist thought that Jesus was the Messiah. However he wrote very late in the first century, some 60 to 70 years after the crucifixion, and I doubt that he is quoting the words of Jesus or that he was an eyewitness.
I see. The only Apostle seen at the foot of the Cross (allowed by authority because of his age - being overlooked IOW), who also traditionally lived a long time (and shared much of that life with the only human we could say was closest and knew Christ better and in a way no other could) did not produce the most "Love" centered Gospel seems odd. Interesting to be able to discern which parts of the Bible one can dismiss summarily.
 
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JackRT

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I see. The only Apostle seen at the foot of the Cross (allowed by authority because of his age - being overlooked IOW), who also traditionally lived a long time (and shared much of that life with the only human we could say was closest and knew Christ better and in a way no other could) did not produce the most "Love" centered Gospel seems odd. Interesting to be able to discern which parts of the Bible one can dismiss summarily.

I try to regard all scripture objectively. The same with "tradition".
 
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DrBubbaLove

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I try to regard all scripture objectively. The same with "tradition".
I gathered as much. And I truly do find it interesting, even facinating, that someone would feel both qualified and able to discern which parts of Scriptures they could summarily dismiss.
 
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Der Alte

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I think it obvious that John the Evangelist thought that Jesus was the Messiah. However he wrote very late in the first century, some 60 to 70 years after the crucifixion, and I doubt that he is quoting the words of Jesus or that he was an eyewitness.
What you doubt is not evidence of anything. Can you provide credible, verifiable, historical evidence that John is not quoting the words of Jesus?
 
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JackRT

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What you doubt is not evidence of anything.
Absitively posilutely correct.
Can you provide credible, verifiable, historical evidence that John is not quoting the words of Jesus?
No, I cannot, but by the same token no one can provide credible, verifiable, historical evidence that John is quoting the words of Jesus.
 
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DrBubbaLove

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Absitively posilutely correct.

No, I cannot, but by the same token no one can provide credible, verifiable, historical evidence that John is quoting the words of Jesus.
Does the UCC grant an ability to discern which verses and therefore beliefs can be summarily dismissed to regular individual members or special members only?
 
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Der Alte

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Messiah means literally "anointed one" and was the common way in which the Jews referred to kings of the dynasty of David. "Anointed" refers of course to the method of coronation of the Jewish kings.
That is true, but the Jews distinguished between "meschiach" a title for kings and "Ha meschiach"/The Messiah, i.e. the coming prophesied Meschiach or Messiah.
It translated into the Greek as "Christos". The Jews regarded themselves as a "theocracy"... a kingdom ruled by God. The Jews also envisaged a (metaphorical) throne room in which there were three thrones. God occupied the central throne. At "the right hand of God" was the throne of the "king messiah" who was the reigning king of the house and family of David. At "the left hand of God" was the throne of the "priest messiah" who was the high priest of the house and family of Zadok. Ideally there were always two messiahs who were known collectively as the "sons of God". All these terms, "messiah", "kingdom of God", "at the right hand of God" and "son of God" were political rather than religious statements.
Christians who re-interpreted these phrases in a very different religious sense. Both before and after the death of Jesus the early Christians, who were, after all, practicing Jews, understood these terms in their traditional sense.
Interesting assertions, can you provide any credible, verifiable, historical evidence for any of this? And note just because something is posted on a website does not make it true.
It was a later generation of gentile Jesus in claiming to be the messiah had not committed any blasphemy... there was no religious crime that the high priest could legitimately charge him with. That is why he went to the Romans to do the job.
I should add that I am not entirely convinced that Jesus himself ever claimed to be the messiah but there is no doubt at all that his followers certainly thought that.
Jesus did claim to be the Messiah. The Jews did not try to stone Jesus because He claimed to be the Messiah. They tried to kill Him because He claimed to be the Son of God.

John 1:41 He [Andrew] first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
John 4:25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
John 4:26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
John 10:33
(33) The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Matthew 26:63-64
(63) But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
(64) Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
 
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