• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

What turns me away #3

Discussion in 'Struggles by Non-Christians' started by primarymay, Nov 21, 2017.

  1. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

    +12,893
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    By the way, I'm not talking about the mental gymnastics some associate with salvation. God doesn't offer us a deal like, "if you can sincerely believe the sky is green, and the grass is purple, I'll let you into heaven". That is not what is meant by "belief".

    For starters, it's what you do with the message. How do you choose to align yourself? One doesn't have to have full and immediate unshakeable faith. Few do. But even a glimmer of hope along with willingness, and God will help. But if we want nothing to do with Him, He will generally respect that too. That's the thing. We really do get to choose. This is the dignity God chose to bestow upon man.


    Maybe you mean "faith" instead of belief? Faith involves things not seen. But I can know the truth that horses have four legs, and still believe that truth.

    I'm not really interested in philosophical wrangling though, so I'll leave that to others if that's what you're interested in talking about.
     
  2. primarymay

    primarymay Member

    188
    +13
    Australia
    Atheist
    Single
    Then I'd have to forgive your God, that's what I have a beef with.
     
  3. AservantofGodandthelordJC

    AservantofGodandthelordJC Member

    161
    +15
    United States
    Pantheist
    Celibate
    US-Republican
    That doesn't make sense, its like you're saying 'I'd have to forgive your water' water is water, just like the truth remains the truth regardless of what you believe. If you mean your misinterpretations of the bible, they are just that, misunderstanding. Tests of faith are necessary because understanding of the truth conquers all, it is invincible. If you are being tested then that part of you is not aligned with the truth. If it is your intention to understand God then forgive, you will never understand until you do.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
  4. Noxot

    Noxot tohu and bohu Supporter

    +1,886
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    i'm sure God would be happy that you would forgive him if he did evil and I bet he is happy that you reject the shadow of himself. there are some very hard sayings in the bible due to mankinds sometimes crude nature but God still works through them just as he always has. he has to reach us where we are at.
     
  5. primarymay

    primarymay Member

    188
    +13
    Australia
    Atheist
    Single
    I know right, it doesn't make any sense.

    The God of my bible is my white whale.
     
  6. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

    +12,893
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    What do you have to forgive Him for?
     
  7. primarymay

    primarymay Member

    188
    +13
    Australia
    Atheist
    Single
    I'm not really an Atheist, I just picked it because Christians usually label me as one.
     
  8. primarymay

    primarymay Member

    188
    +13
    Australia
    Atheist
    Single
    For causing me a great deal of mental anguish, due to the theology of endless torment.
     
  9. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

    +12,893
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    What if you've gotten the theology wrong, and it's not God's fault, but because someone taught you wrongly?
     
  10. primarymay

    primarymay Member

    188
    +13
    Australia
    Atheist
    Single
    Well, that would be one less thing that I'd have to be concerned about.

    I didn't walk away based on one religious dilemma, that would be silly.
     
  11. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Servant of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

    +12,893
    United States
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    I have a friend who likes to say ... how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. I suppose it works for a whale too.
     
  12. Hawkins

    Hawkins Member Supporter

    +133
    Christian
    Married
    It's not a surprise that what turns you away is your own limited human intelligence. It is thus warned thousand years ago that the day you eat of if , the same day you shall surely die.
     
  13. Noxot

    Noxot tohu and bohu Supporter

    +1,886
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    blindly following after what people think is God has people doing dumb things such as murdering someone for picking up sticks on the wrong day. for someone to not be appalled by this biblical story is perplexing to me but then I remember that most people are sinners and evil and so could not possibly distinguish good from evil. funny enough you can see a representation of Christ in that story.

    so most people are foolish and accept the evils in the bible as part of Gods nature because they are children when it comes to spiritual things. the tree of life opens the door to a better understanding of God and there is no shadow of turning in it.

    Jesus said that the kingdom is in the midst of you and so I guess if it is not then you won't know God very well and so it would not matter what you read because you would not have eyes to see or ears to hear.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
  14. primarymay

    primarymay Member

    188
    +13
    Australia
    Atheist
    Single
    Why wouldn't the opposite be true also.
     
  15. primarymay

    primarymay Member

    188
    +13
    Australia
    Atheist
    Single
    Yes'em
     
  16. 2PhiloVoid

    2PhiloVoid "Then farewell Riches, the fat is in the FIRE!" Supporter

    +3,841
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    What about what's on the 'third hand'...that God is HOLY? It seems to me that a number of people completely leave this central characteristic out of the equation when attempting to evaluate God. And I never can figure out why.
     
  17. primarymay

    primarymay Member

    188
    +13
    Australia
    Atheist
    Single
    Me neither.
     
  18. aiki

    aiki Regular Member

    +2,038
    Canada
    Baptist
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    I don't see any problem with God being all these things - unless you think there is some sort of contradiction in His being so that you're not spelling out.

    Chapter and verse, please.

    "Killing in the name of God?" Chapter and verse please.

    Compulsory love? There's no such thing. Love, by definition, must be freely given.

    Why should you get to live just as you please in God's universe? Why should your existence be made possible at every moment by God while you ignore Him? The hubris in such thinking is what is truly sick.

    Jesus doesn't simply demand we love him in a vacuum of reason to do so. He has given us the highest possible demonstration of his love for us and it is within this context that he invites us to love him, too.

    I love Jesus because he first loved me. He didn't have to die for my sins. He was under no obligation to do me any good turn at all. But, he extended his love and grace to me anyway, when I was fouled by sin and deserving of judgment, and redeemed me from the just and holy wrath of God. Spurning such awesome, undeserved love is, as far as I'm concerned, the height of wickedness and warrants the punishment God has warned us will fall upon all who are guilty of it.
     
  19. Noxot

    Noxot tohu and bohu Supporter

    +1,886
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Others
    people are told to not lean on their own understanding but they fail to do such because they act haughty when they think they comprehend what they claim to be "plain" meanings in the bible. they are unaware that most religious folks view God as a lamb that speaks like a dragon. they are ignorant that the god of this world deceives everyone and they count themselves as someone who is wise and not deceived while also claiming they are very unworthy and sinful... which automatically disqualifies them from understanding God perfectly.

    demons have faith that there is a God, but they certainly don't know him.

    so God puts everyone to shame when they won't reject the evil lamb that speaks like a dragon and when they as cowards think it right to bend their knees to satan who masquerades as an messenger of light. only God and God alone can reveal to you his nature and what his bible says. we all know him to the degree that our hearts are a holy temple of his rather than the antichrist, who pretends to be Christ.

    here is a picture of the sinful flesh warping the image of Christ into an unholy image. the bible describes a process of Israel (Gods beloved soul) going from an earthly nature to a heavenly nature.

    Rev 13:11-14 (YLT)
    And I saw another beast coming up out of the land, and it had two horns, like a lamb, and it was speaking as a dragon, and all the authority of the first beast doth it do before it, and it maketh the land and those dwelling in it that they shall bow before the first beast, whose deadly stroke was healed, and it doth great signs, that fire also it may make to come down from the heaven to the earth before men, and it leadeth astray those dwelling on the land, because of the signs that were given it to do before the beast, saying to those dwelling upon the land to make an image to the beast that hath the stroke of the sword and did live,


    all day long Gods blind people revile him and the mixture of good and evil causes the righteousness God cloths us with to become tainted and ruined. the worm eating the wool is the base evil nature corrupting the good, this is the spiritual egypt type aka the flesh. the moth eating a garment implies a kind of growing up and maturing because a garment is fashioned and a moth is a secondary developed form and can fly which represents some heavenly insight and is spiritually speaking the "dwelling in the wilderness type" aka the soul, but is still not perfect as we are commanded to dwell in the land of promise aka the spirit.

    Isa 51:7-8 (YLT)
    Hearken unto Me, ye who know righteousness, A people, in whose heart is My law, Fear ye not the reproach of men, And for their reviling be not affrighted, For as a garment eat them doth a moth, And as wool eat them doth a worm, And My righteousness is to the age, And My salvation to all generations.


    but God will keep trying until he saves his people to the utmost.

    Jer 31:31-34 (YLT)
    Lo, days are coming, an affirmation of Jehovah, And I have made with the house of Israel And with the house of Judah a new covenant, Not like the covenant that I made with their fathers, In the day of My laying hold on their hand, To bring them out of the land of Egypt, In that they made void My covenant, And I ruled over them--an affirmation of Jehovah. For this is the covenant that I make, With the house of Israel, after those days, An affirmation of Jehovah, I have given My law in their inward part, And on their heart I do write it, And I have been to them for God, And they are to me for a people. And they do not teach any more Each his neighbour, and each his brother, Saying, Know ye Jehovah, For they all know Me, from their least unto their greatest, An affirmation of Jehovah; For I pardon their iniquity, And of their sin I make mention no more.


    it's so difficult to explain all the patterns and symbolic language that i can say with confidence that only by the grace of God can you even say anything that you see of it or comprehend the depths of the hidden wisdom of God. it takes much more than the rational part of the mind to understand the supra-rational Word of God. you must be born from above.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2017
  20. ToBeLoved

    ToBeLoved Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,833
    Non-Denom
    Private
    If that is what keeps you from endless torment in eternity, it's probably worth it in the long run. You are 'experiencing great anguish' for a reason.

    If I were you I would 'start over' with God. I'm serious. Put all that you have learned or think you know aside and start reading the Bible and studying with no preconceived notions.

    Ask God to help you understand.
     
Loading...