What To Do About ISIS?

[RKO]

Never suggested that and I would appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth.

Relax. I don't think I ever said you were saying that. I was clarifying my own point. The one to which you originally responded.


I knew that discussing politics here was a bad idea.

Carry on. I'm out of this one.

 

[RKO]

Nik0s' comment was not speaking about the US government but a consolidated world response and involvement of the "silent majority" of Muslims.

I believe we all, myself included, are doing a lot of talking and very little listening. As i said before, I am withdrawing from this thread. I'm a guest here and do not want to cause dissension.

 

[GregConstantine]

if we stayed on topic it would not have gotten onto the topic of politics

 

[isshinwhat]

The terrorists fighting us now? We just finished training them. - The Washington Post

 

[InnerPhyre]

We created a monster. Now we don't know how to contain it. I think a good first step would be to stop getting involved in every civil war on the planet.

 

[GregConstantine]

@Innerphyre, too late for that

 

[seekingfreedom]

We created a monster. Now we don't know how to contain it. I think a good first step would be to stop getting involved in every civil war on the planet.

"GregConstantine said: too late for that"

I agree with you both. Question: Did we create the monster on purpose?

 

[ArmyMatt]

@Innerphyre, too late for that

I don't think it's ever too late for that. we can stop messing with folks if we choose to, we just never choose to.

 

[E.C.]

To jump blindly into the thread...


The West is not going to do anything serious, concrete or significant about ISIS other than blow a lot of hot air. The time in which governments of the West actually stood up for religious minorities went away about the same time as imperialism, so I hate to say it but be prepared for an extremely hostile state to rise out of that mess.

Our best hope is with the Kurds. The Kurdish people have been fighting for their own state to call home since the dieing days of the Ottoman Empire. They have been fighting Turks and Arabs for that right for close to 100 years now and have the most experience in how to fight battles and wars (winning them is debatable, but they don't give up). The Kurds get along with Yazidis and Christians on equal terms because they've all suffered equally under Turkey and Saddam's Iraq. The Kurds even allow women to fight in their ranks and it was once proposed that the Assyrian section of Iraq become part of the Kurdish autonomous areas because the Assyrians would be better treated by the Kurds than the Iraqi government.

In Syria the situation is bad enough for the Syriac Christians to form their own militia - Sutoro - and they fight primarily alongside the Kurds in Syria. Anyone who knows anything about the Middle East should know that Christians there just don't form militias unless the situation is absolutely dire. The mere fact that this organization exists ought to be a sign.


ISIS formed out of the "rebels" in Syria that our government trained and armed to fight Bashir al-Assad. It is because of the way our lobbying system works. They Syrian expats who have money are those who've been here a long time because they left Syria when Bashir's dad, Hafez, was in charge and want nothing more than to see the Assad family out of Syria. Syrian expats are blind to reality. One of my former teachers was like this who claimed that the ISIS guys were "lies from the Syrian government" even when we showed him the ISIS website which at the time stated, in Arabic, "We are part of al-Qaida".


The best thing we can do? Harass our politicians until they get off their hides, pray for the people, or do like many did in the Yugoslav Wars of the 90s and volunteer to fight for the ideological faction of your choice.
But knowing how the US acts with the Middle East, in my honest opinion, ISIS will be around until the next generation fights in a Third Persian Gulf War.

 

[InnerPhyre]

@Innerphyre, too late for that

Too late in the case of ISIS, but not in the case of whoever else is coming down the line.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

It's best to ignore me? How about you, gz? What gives you the right to think yourself so righteous and holy that everyone cares what you have to say and the more conservative Orthodox are ignore-bait. How about you stop getting personal and insulting? You want to ignore me, be a man and ignore me rather than talking about it all day. Ignore all the people who aren't liberal modernist seculars and just talk to like-minded lefties. You'll be much happier that way.

Greg - Uh, I disagree with him. And it's probably best to ignore him.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Yeah, thanks for the hyperbole. Whenever we disagree with someone, the other person is "confused" or nuts or delusional. Yeah, whatever.....It's no wonder people are leaving TAW lately. This kind of nonsense is a perfect example.

I'm talking about ignoring gurney and his "LGBT Nazis" comment and the rest of the very confused post he made.

 

[buzuxi02]

To jump blindly into the thread...

Our best hope is with the Kurds. The Kurdish people have been fighting for their own state to call home since the dieing days of the Ottoman Empire. They have been fighting Turks and Arabs for that right for close to 100 years now and have the most experience in how to fight battles and wars (winning them is debatable, but they don't give up). The Kurds get along with Yazidis and Christians on equal terms because they've all suffered equally under Turkey and Saddam's Iraq. The Kurds even allow women to fight in their ranks and it was once proposed that the Assyrian section of Iraq become part of the Kurdish autonomous areas because the Assyrians would be better treated by the Kurds than the Iraqi government.

In Syria the situation is bad enough for the Syriac Christians to form their own militia - Sutoro - and they fight primarily alongside the Kurds in Syria. Anyone who knows anything about the Middle East should know that Christians there just don't form militias unless the situation is absolutely dire. The mere fact that this organization exists ought to be a sign.
.

I definately agree with you. I thought the chance of the Kurds getting their own country during the war that ousted Sadaam was high, but it ever did materialize. I don't think we would ever support the Kurds. The reason bing that Turkey does not want a Kurdish state on its border. Also the Kurds are currently getting military advice from Iran and have PKK fighters helping them. For all these reasons I don't see the Kurds being pushed.

PKK Is the kurdish militia that until recently was conducting a seperatist rebellion in Turkey. The USA designates them as a terrorist organization as does NATO.

Its too bad as the Kurds ,and possibly the arming of maronite christians in Lebanon would be the only militias the West could truly work with.

 

[gzt]

I'm not sure what a better term would be for somebody who refers to "LGBT Nazis". Confused is better than most of the alternatives. Then again, at least it's not anti-semitism, which is a cut above certain segments of Orthodoxy.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I just don't understand why you, as an Orthodox Christian, don't find it outrageous how our world is being engulfed in the agenda of these folks? We are brainwashed 24/7 to "be tolerant" and "accepting" and "don't hate" the LGBT agenda. Heck, this silly acronym even grows on an annual basis! The propaganda just balloons! It was LGBT, not it's LGBTQ and I believe another letter is being added!

Sodomy and lesbianism is sinful and a disgusting warping of human sexuality. Sodomy is of Satan very plainly. Just meditate for a moment on what two men do together, gz, and get a good head-full of the imagery. Quite ungodly.

What I don't understand is why you can't see the fascist nonsense of this agenda. We see constant "gay" characters on television. Every show MUST have a "gay" character. Every film, every band, everyday on the news we must hear who is "out...." Every single day the agenda is propagandized in the newspapers. They have led a campaign for decades now trying to get us to swallow this tripe. It is fascist. It is propaganda, it is forced on us, and if we stand against it we are discredited, made to be bigots, can lose our jobs, you name it. If you stand in the way of "gay marriage," you stand in the way of "progress" in the eyes of the moderns.

Our Church has taught against this vile lifestyle for centuries. Now it is in our face, our children's faces, every day of our lives. They have their own cable channel, and I can't even turn on the news in the morning or read the paper in front of my kids without the word "gay" somewhere.

Yes, I see it as a fascism of ideas. They force themselves on us and publically shame and demoralize anyone who stands in their way.

I would think you would be able to see this. Obama is beholdant to these thugs, and it has been a hallmark of his presidency to pander to sodomy.

Nothing silly or empty-headed or lacking lucidity in what I say unless you're pro-sodomy and think it's either beautiful at worst, or no big woop at best. And if sodomy is that worthwhile, then yeah, I'm probably worth being ignored. I will continue to resist this stupid agenda.

I'm not sure what a better term would be for somebody who refers to "LGBT Nazis". Confused is better than most of the alternatives. Then again, at least it's not anti-semitism, which is a cut above certain segments of Orthodoxy.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

To jump blindly into the thread...


The West is not going to do anything serious, concrete or significant about ISIS other than blow a lot of hot air. The time in which governments of the West actually stood up for religious minorities went away about the same time as imperialism, so I hate to say it but be prepared for an extremely hostile state to rise out of that mess.

Our best hope is with the Kurds. The Kurdish people have been fighting for their own state to call home since the dieing days of the Ottoman Empire. They have been fighting Turks and Arabs for that right for close to 100 years now and have the most experience in how to fight battles and wars (winning them is debatable, but they don't give up). The Kurds get along with Yazidis and Christians on equal terms because they've all suffered equally under Turkey and Saddam's Iraq. The Kurds even allow women to fight in their ranks and it was once proposed that the Assyrian section of Iraq become part of the Kurdish autonomous areas because the Assyrians would be better treated by the Kurds than the Iraqi government.

In Syria the situation is bad enough for the Syriac Christians to form their own militia - Sutoro - and they fight primarily alongside the Kurds in Syria. Anyone who knows anything about the Middle East should know that Christians there just don't form militias unless the situation is absolutely dire. The mere fact that this organization exists ought to be a sign.


ISIS formed out of the "rebels" in Syria that our government trained and armed to fight Bashir al-Assad. It is because of the way our lobbying system works. They Syrian expats who have money are those who've been here a long time because they left Syria when Bashir's dad, Hafez, was in charge and want nothing more than to see the Assad family out of Syria. Syrian expats are blind to reality. One of my former teachers was like this who claimed that the ISIS guys were "lies from the Syrian government" even when we showed him the ISIS website which at the time stated, in Arabic, "We are part of al-Qaida".


The best thing we can do? Harass our politicians until they get off their hides, pray for the people, or do like many did in the Yugoslav Wars of the 90s and volunteer to fight for the ideological faction of your choice.
But knowing how the US acts with the Middle East, in my honest opinion, ISIS will be around until the next generation fights in a Third Persian Gulf War.

Definitely an analysis that sums up much of the situation. However, I would note that I don't think ISIS would really be eradicated if the spirit that drove them to their actions is ignored. You can kill a group of people and yet the spirit that led them to be inclined toward such violence will simply jump to another person.

Add to this the issue of others wishing to fund such actions (including Saudi Arabia which condemned them after they got out of hand ) and you have a continual problem. With the ISIS Crisis, there's no escaping the reality that people have actually profited off the crisis.

Battles by proxy have led to so much damage (more shared in The New War in Iraq: US Occupation Shifts to Proxy Subversion | Global Research and others:

• US-NATO Proxy War in Iraq and Syria: US Financing and Training of “Moderate” ISIS Rebels in Syria | Global Research

• The Battle for Iraq Is a Saudi War on Iran

• Arming ISIS in Syria … Then Bombing Them in Iraq? « Antiwar.com Blog

For Christians everywhere, there are a lot of battles - but it is financially beneficial to tear down Christian communities in support of Radical Islam - and that is something the U.S actually gains a lot from. Artificial war. They did a good synopsis on the matter here - as seen in Nineveh is Fallen | Orthodox England. Essentially, as noted there, everything with the "enemies" the West went after in Iraq was designed by the West. And in toppling them over to bring "democracy", democracy is now being demolished by the same people who were funded by the West. It's sad to see how many don't consider their situation and where they are significant in history (more shared here and in Cairo death poll passes 500). It's a vicious cycle...


With regards to the actions of our president, I am thankful for the ways the president has gotten involved in the situation:

• Why Obama just authorized air strikes on ISIS in Iraq - Vox

For more reference on the nuances involved in the Iraqi situation that preceded where things are at today, one can go to 27 maps that explain the crisis in Iraq | vox.com and for an excellent review on the ways that our policies there have not been thought out for the long term, one can go to MARK MARTINEZ' BLOG: DEVELOPING AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ ... IT'S MINDLESS MODERNIZATION THEORY, AGAIN- very good resource as it concerns understanding more the background behind what's happening in the ISIS and Iraq....and possible factors being considered by the U.S.

Of course, it is interesting to see how things have developed - for in considering some of the facts on what was considered months ago, it is sad to see where some of the problems arising have been developed by us and were not realized (as noted best in Arming ISIS in Syria - then Bombing them later in Iraq? << Anti-War ).


With Iraq, it is hard not to notice where the actions done with authorizing the bombs in Iraq should also be done in places where ISIS has also been doing damage of the same level (as in Syria - despite where that could also lead to more U.S intervening in order to advance its own reach into those places....already strategic locations for a host of reasons). As another noted wisely in ISIS Iraq Offensive: Can the Empire Reassert Control of the Jihadists? | Black Agenda Report :

&#8220;How can the U.S. bomb ISIS jihadists in Iraq and not bomb them in Syria?&#8221; The contradictions of the West&#8217;s reliance on Muslim fundamentalist jihadis to do their dirty work have become acute with the ISIS blitzkrieg in Iraq. Despite its vast weaponry, the U.S. cannot control events on the ground if their jihadist gunmen pursue their own objectives, which are ultimately antithetical to imperialism.​

Moreover, the cultural mindsets that led to issues can never be bombed away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVH6MUFk90Y

As said before, for a spiritual crisis, you need a spiritual solution.
Ultimately, love will save the day on all ends. As said elsewhere, transforming the ways others think changes the paths they take

 

[Gxg (G²)]

We created a monster. Now we don't know how to contain it. I think a good first step would be to stop getting involved in every civil war on the planet.

Perhaps it's just me, but I think it's kind of hard to stop being involved in every civil war when part of how we got so massive to begin with was by seeking to be an empire that enforced our way of life on others...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfsfoFqsFk4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PdJ9TAdTdA

 

[Gxg (G²)]

May God grant comfort to the Middle East

May he also grant peace to those in Africa, as the issue of terrorism from groups like ISIS has actually bee deeply connected with several other terrorist groups throughout the continent. Not many are aware (or keeping up) with the ways that terrorism connected to ISIS has occurred in Nigeria like Nigeria's Boko Haram Islamists. Unfortunately, they recently slaughtered 1,000 Christians.

• The Infra News - ISIS, Boko Haram and Global Terrorism

Most Gruesome Terrorist Group In The World? - YouTube

 

[RKO]

I just don't understand why you, as an Orthodox Christian, don't find it outrageous how our world is being engulfed in the agenda of these folks? We are brainwashed 24/7 to "be tolerant" and "accepting" and "don't hate" the LGBT agenda. Heck, this silly acronym even grows on an annual basis! The propaganda just balloons! It was LGBT, not it's LGBTQ and I believe another letter is being added!

Sodomy and lesbianism is sinful and a disgusting warping of human sexuality. Sodomy is of Satan very plainly. Just meditate for a moment on what two men do together, gz, and get a good head-full of the imagery. Quite ungodly.

What I don't understand is why you can't see the fascist nonsense of this agenda. We see constant "gay" characters on television. Every show MUST have a "gay" character. Every film, every band, everyday on the news we must hear who is "out...." Every single day the agenda is propagandized in the newspapers. They have led a campaign for decades now trying to get us to swallow this tripe. It is fascist. It is propaganda, it is forced on us, and if we stand against it we are discredited, made to be bigots, can lose our jobs, you name it. If you stand in the way of "gay marriage," you stand in the way of "progress" in the eyes of the moderns.

Our Church has taught against this vile lifestyle for centuries. Now it is in our face, our children's faces, every day of our lives. They have their own cable channel, and I can't even turn on the news in the morning or read the paper in front of my kids without the word "gay" somewhere.

Yes, I see it as a fascism of ideas. They force themselves on us and publically shame and demoralize anyone who stands in their way.

I would think you would be able to see this. Obama is beholdant to these thugs, and it has been a hallmark of his presidency to pander to sodomy.

Nothing silly or empty-headed or lacking lucidity in what I say unless you're pro-sodomy and think it's either beautiful at worst, or no big woop at best. And if sodomy is that worthwhile, then yeah, I'm probably worth being ignored. I will continue to resist this stupid agenda.

Gurneey, this is an area where you and I may not completely disagree, but maybe we come from different perspectives. And let me say that while we may be somewhat at odds on this topic, you were the first person to reach out to me here at TAW, and I don't forget that. You are my friend.
But I think what's happening that causes the cnservative side some frustration on this is that the world at large IS beginning to see homosexuality in a different light. As we all know, in all parts of the world, and still in a few, being gay was punishable by death. Until VERY recently in the US homosexuality was criminal. Churches blieved, and many still do, that they could"convert" a gay prson and make them straight.
However mot of the civilized world has taken another look at this history. If (and I say IF) you come to the realization that being gay is rooted deeper in the person than simply being an attachment to sin, or a temptation, one begins to think tht maybe the death penalty or a jail sentence is a little much. The thought that homosexuality is something that can not be "cured" or is not a wrong done to a society may contrast with some conservative Christian thinking. To acknowledge it seems to back up on God's word. To those of us on the other side, it is more of an evolution of man's thinking. That's why when cnservtive quote the Old testament about sodomy, we shoot back quotes about slavery or something else.
Right or wrong, it's going to cause a lot of frustration.

Final unrelated note. This laptop seems not to want to type vowels. not sure why!

 

[GregConstantine]

why does every conversation we have here turns into a discussion about homosexuality? Really? This is a geopolitical situation rooted in centuries of history, religious beliefs, various ideologies competing for one another that does not have a simplistic, black and white answers and solutions. So yes, gurneyhaleck1, to say that the entire foreign relations of the US rests on Obama's views of homosexuality is quite frankly, asinine and ridiculous. And its presumptuous and judgmental of you gurneyhaleck1 to accuse anyone who disagrees with you as being some bleeding heart liberal who wants to change the Church's teachings on sexuality. I have personally fought against people who were trying to do that very same thing at a personal cost. So do not come here and judge me, gzt or anyone else on this forum!