what tell us the Gospel about the death sentences

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,352
10,607
Georgia
✟911,857.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Many religions and many religious, for different reasons, preach that Christians can kill the men who commit certain serious offenses. They justify death sentences in many cases ... These religious who accepted penalties death as if were God's law , are justified in many old testament laws ... But, what tell us the Gospel about the death sentences and respect for the lives of people?... The Gospel tells us: 'Thou shalt not kill,' and also, 'He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her' (John 8:1-11). With these teachings, Jesus Christ took away all authority to every man to kill the men.

First of all there is no case in the NT where the church can kill someone or can order someone else to kill someone - especially not for doctrinal difference or differences on issues of worship.

Having said that - the NT did admit that civil authority is ordained of God and has the mission to execute the death sentence in cases of criminal actions.

Romans 13
2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. 3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.


but what the NT does not do - is authorize any civil action against someone because they have doctrinal differences. A lesson some folks in the dark ages had a hard time remembering.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuaslavejeff

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
Jan 6, 2005
39,944
11,098
okie
✟214,996.00
Faith
Anabaptist
First of all there is no case in the NT where the church can kill someone or can order someone else to kill someone
Simple and true.
Recognizing this [seeking YHWH'S Kingdom and Wisdom in Y'SHUA] brings or starts to bring understanding of what the church was and what it was not through the dark ages, or basically ever since
about 100 or 200 a.d. through TODAY, (and maybe extremely important ongoing from this moment, for those who weren't absolutely sure before).
 
Upvote 0

Porque77

Newbie
Oct 3, 2013
289
79
Visit site
✟20,512.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
First of all there is no case in the NT where the church can kill someone or can order someone else to kill someone - especially not for doctrinal difference or differences on issues of worship.
No man should kill in any case, because God's command "YOU SHALL NOT KILL" is for all men.

And Jesus said that he who is without sin, be the first to cast the stone against the sinner. Therefore, no man should kill people because all men are sinners.


Having said that - the NT did admit that civil authority is ordained of God and has the mission to execute the death sentence in cases of criminal actions.

Romans 13
3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.
This teaching contradicts what Jesus taught when he said:

"And Jesus had called them to him and said to them: "You know that those who are supposed to rule over the nations lord it over them, and their great men exercise authority over them. But it shall not be so among you; but whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whosoever would be first among you, must be slave of all. For the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many". (Mark 10:42-44)
 
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Site Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,821
9,817
✟312,047.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
They justify death sentences in many cases ...

"For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer." -- Romans 13:3-4
 
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Site Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,821
9,817
✟312,047.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
This is Jesus quoting the Old Testament so the meaning must remain the same. The Old Testament prohibition was against murder, not killing which is permissible in war and in carrying out the law. So this verse cannot pertain to the death penalty.

:thumbsup: True.
 
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Site Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,821
9,817
✟312,047.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You remind us writings of the letters attributed to Paul, but the letters attributed to Paul were distorted by the unlearned, as the Apostle Peter said, who said this:

You misinterpret what Peter says, just as you misinterpret the Gospels. The letters we have were indeed written by Paul; some people misinterpret them.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,352
10,607
Georgia
✟911,857.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
This is Jesus quoting the Old Testament so the meaning must remain the same. The Old Testament prohibition was against murder, not killing which is permissible in war and in carrying out the law. So this verse cannot pertain to the death penalty.

And in numerous places in the OT God required the death penalty .. including Genesis 9

5 Surely I will require your lifeblood; from every beast I will require it. And from every man, from every man’s brother I will require the life of man.

6 “Whoever sheds man’s blood,
By man his blood shall be shed
,
For in the image of God
He made man.
7 “As for you, be fruitful and multiply;
Populate the earth abundantly and multiply in it.”
 
Upvote 0

Porque77

Newbie
Oct 3, 2013
289
79
Visit site
✟20,512.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Jesus brought in a new covenant and a new law
Love God
Love each other

The Old Testament law is for the Jews, christians are not under the OT law, go read Romans, again
"The Law of Christ is the true Law of God. And the Old Testament commandments that commanded death sentences and allowed men to have other men as slaves were not the true Law of God, but precepts of men"..........
 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,605
Hudson
✟284,422.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
"The Law of Christ is the true Law of God. And the Old Testament commandments that commanded death sentences and allowed men to have other men as slaves were not the true Law of God, but precepts of men"..........

Christ was sinless, so he lived in perfect obedience to the Mosaic law, and if you believe that he practiced what he preached and preached what he practiced, then you should believe that he taught how to obey the law both by word and by example. Jesus said that his teachings were not his own, but that of the Father (John 7:16) and that he came only to do the father's will (John 6:38), so he was not in disagreement with the Father about what conduct we should have and did not go off and teach his own thing, but rather the law of Christ is the way that he taught to obey the Mosaic law. The Mosaic law was given by God, so it is God's law and not the precepts of men.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,605
Hudson
✟284,422.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Jesus brought in a new covenant and a new law
Love God
Love each other

The Old Testament law is for the Jews, christians are not under the OT law, go read Romans, again

Cant believe basic christianity is not taught

According to Deuteronomy 4:2 and Deuteronomy 12:32, it is a sin to add to or subtract from what God had commanded them, and Jesus was born under the law, so if he had added a new law, then he would have been sinning and would have been disqualified from being our Savior. However, there is nothing brand new about the commands to love God and to love each other because they can be found in the OT. In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus was not asked about which commands he thought should be obeyed, but about what the greatest command was. Furthermore, he said that all of the other laws hang on the greatest two commands, so the other laws are examples or the explanation for how to correctly obey the greatest two commands. All of the 613 laws of the OT and 1,050 laws of the NT can and have been be summarized as instructions for how to love God and our neighbor, but understanding the spiritual principle of the law does not exempt us from from following examples of that principle. If we disregards God's instructions for how He wants us to love Him and our neighbor and Messiah's example of following those instructions, then that shows that shows that we have not correctly understood the spiritual principle of love.

God has always been holy, righteous, and good, so the way to act according to God's character has existed unchangingly from the beginning independently of any covenant, though it was revealed in later covenants. So there is a difference between a set of instructions for how to act according to God's holiness, righteousness, and goodness, and a covenant agreement to live according to those instructions. Anyone who wants to find out how to do what is holy, righteous, and good can find out by reading what God has revealed in the Mosaic law (Romans 7:7) regardless of what covenant, if any, they are under, but as part of the New Covenant, we are still told to do what God has revealed to be holy, righteous, and good and avoid what He has revealed to be sin (1 Peter 1:13-16, 1 John 3:4-10, Ephesians 2:10). Following what God has commanded in His law and following Messiah's example of obedience to the law is not just for the Jews, but for all the followers of God and for all whom Messiah gave himself to redeem from lawlessness.

Romans 6:14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.

Paul described the law that we are not under as one where sin had dominion over him, which Paul described as the law of sin in contrast with the Mosaic law. In Romans 7, Paul said that the Mosaic law was not sin, that it revealed what sin is, that it was holy, righteous, and good, that it was the good he sought to do, that it was the good he delighted in doing, and the law that he served with His mind, but contrasted that with a law of sin that came about to increase tresspasses, to arroused sinful passions to bear fruit unto death, that held him captive, that caused him not to do the good that he wanted to do, and that he served with his flesh. Likewise, in Galatians 5:16-23, everything that was listed as being works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic law, while everything that was listed as being fruits of the Spirit are also in accordance with the law, so it doesn't make any sense to interpret Galatians 5:18 as saying that we aren't under the Mosaic law if we are led by the Spirit, especially when the law was given by God, the Spirit is God, and the Spirit has the role of leading us in obedience to the law (Ezekiel 36:26-27). Rather, it is again the law of sin that stirs us the works of the flesh that are against the Spirit that we are not under if we are led by the Spirit.
 
Upvote 0

Porque77

Newbie
Oct 3, 2013
289
79
Visit site
✟20,512.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
"The Law of Christ is the true Law of God. And the Old Testament commandments that commanded death sentences and allowed men to have other men as slaves were not the true Law of God, but precepts of men"..........

Christ was sinless, so he lived in perfect obedience to the Mosaic law, and if you believe that he practiced what he preached and preached what he practiced, then you should believe that he taught how to obey the law both by word and by example. Jesus said that his teachings were not his own, but that of the Father (John 7:16) and that he came only to do the father's will (John 6:38), so he was not in disagreement with the Father about what conduct we should have and did not go off and teach his own thing, but rather the law of Christ is the way that he taught to obey the Mosaic law. The Mosaic law was given by God, so it is God's law and not the precepts of men.
So is. The problem is that in the old testament there are many commandments that were not the law that God gave to Moses, and that is why Jesus annulled them. For example, the commandment of the eye for an eye and tooth for tooth, the commandments to stone people for various causes, the commandments that allowed men to have slaves, and all the commandments that were not merciful, nor commanded to forgive. All these commandments were abolished by Jesus because they were not commandments of God, because Jesus Christ did not come to abolish the Law of God but to give it known.

The commandmentes that JesusChrist teache in the Gospel are the true Law of God.

 
Upvote 0

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,605
Hudson
✟284,422.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
So is. The problem is that in the old testament there are many commandments that were not the law that God gave to Moses, and that is why Jesus annulled them. For example, the commandment of the eye for an eye and tooth for tooth, the commandments to stone people for various causes, the commandments that allowed men to have slaves, and all the commandments that were not merciful, nor commanded to forgive. All these commandments were abolished by Jesus because they were not commandments of God, because Jesus Christ did not come to abolish the Law of God but to give it known.

The commandmentes that JesusChrist teache in the Gospel are the true Law of God.


Whenever Jesus quoted Scripture, he always preceded it by saying "it is written", but when he was quoting what the teachers of the Law were teaching, he preceded it by saying "you have heard that it was said". In Matthew 5, Jesus was not sinning in violation of Deuteronomy 4:2 by nullifying what God had commanded or by add new laws, but rather he was correcting false teachings about the Law and correctly teaching how it was meant to be understood. For example:

Matthew 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’

While it is true that God's Law commands us to love our neighbor (Leviticus 19:18), it is not true that it commands us to hate our enemies, which is what the teachers of the Law had been incorrectly teaching about it. Another example:

Matthew 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

This is again nothing new, just the correct application of the 7th and 10th commandments.

In John 8:1-12, we have an example of Jesus following the Law rather than making changes to how it is obeyed. There was no judge to pronounce a sentence (Deuteronomy 19:17-21), there was no man accused (Leviticus 20:10), he didn't have any witnesses to examine (Numbers 35:30, Deuteronomy 17:6, Deuteronomy 19:5), he did not have a confession, so if he had condemned her, then he would have acted in violation of the Law. Just a few verses later Jesus said that he judged no one (John 8:15) and he also said that he came not to judge (John 12:47), so he did not exercise authority as a magistrate and did not condemn her, but he did recognize her action as sin, and told her to go and sin no more. The people in this passage were trying to trick Jesus into making a judgement, which he avoided doing, so he was not taking a stance against obeying his Law.

Jesus said that the weightier matters of the Law are justice, mercy, and faith (Matthew 23:23), so it has always been intended to teach us how reflect those attributes of God. Jesus was sinless, so he set a perfect example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and he preached what he practiced, so he taught obedience to the Mosaic Law both by word and by example, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22).
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Porque77

Newbie
Oct 3, 2013
289
79
Visit site
✟20,512.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
In Matthew 5, Jesus was not sinning in violation of Deuteronomy 4:2 by nullifying what God had commanded or by add new laws, but rather he was correcting false teachings about the Law and correctly teaching how it was meant to be understood.
Jesus not only corrected false teachings, but also abolished many Old Testament commandments because they were only commandments of men. For example the law that commanded "eye for eye and tooth for tooth". Jesus abolished this law. And He annulled it because they were not true law of God but precept of men.

In John 8:1-12, we have an example of Jesus following the Law rather than making changes to how it is obeyed. There was no judge to pronounce a sentence (Deuteronomy 19:17-21), there was no man accused (Leviticus 20:10), he didn't have any witnesses to examine (Numbers 35:30, Deuteronomy 17:6, Deuteronomy 19:5), he did not have a confession, so if he had condemned her, then he would have acted in violation of the Law.
The Gospel does not teach what you say. Jesus said that the one who is without sin, be the first to throw the stone against her. And with these words, Jesus taught men that no one must kill other men because all men are sinners. Then, it does not matter if there were judges, or witnesses or some accused man. No one must kill other men because all men are sinners.

Jesus said that the weightier matters of the Law are justice, mercy, and faith (Matthew 23:23), so it has always been intended to teach us how reflect those attributes of God. Jesus was sinless, so he set a perfect example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law...........
The true Law that God had given to Moses are the commandments of the Gospel. That is why Jesus nullified many Old Testament commandments, because they were not commandments of God but precepts of men, for the law of God had been changed by the scribes, as the prophets tell us:

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

Then, Jesus taught us the true commandments of God and canceled the commandments that were not really given by God.
 
Upvote 0

bbbbbbb

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2015
28,240
13,481
72
✟369,197.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Jesus not only corrected false teachings, but also abolished many Old Testament commandments because they were only commandments of men. For example the law that commanded "eye for eye and tooth for tooth". Jesus abolished this law. And He annulled it because they were not true law of God but precept of men.

The Gospel does not teach what you say. Jesus said that the one who is without sin, be the first to throw the stone against her. And with these words, Jesus taught men that no one must kill other men because all men are sinners. Then, it does not matter if there were judges, or witnesses or some accused man. No one must kill other men because all men are sinners.

The true Law that God had given to Moses are the commandments of the Gospel. That is why Jesus nullified many Old Testament commandments, because they were not commandments of God but precepts of men, for the law of God had been changed by the scribes, as the prophets tell us:

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

Then, Jesus taught us the true commandments of God and canceled the commandments that were not really given by God.

Thanks. Now I have your authority and blessing to cut the Old Testament out of the Bible because it is mostly the traditions of men and not the Word of God. That will make my life so much easier. Thanks!
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,605
Hudson
✟284,422.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Jesus not only corrected false teachings, but also abolished many Old Testament commandments because they were only commandments of men. For example the law that commanded "eye for eye and tooth for tooth". Jesus abolished this law. And He annulled it because they were not true law of God but precept of men.

"An eye for an eye" was commanded by God as guideline for judges so that the sentence fairly matched the crime, but it was not intended to be use as a means of personal revenge as the Pharisees were doing, so Jesus was not nullifying what God had commanded, but rather he was correcting what was being taught about it.

The Gospel does not teach what you say. Jesus said that the one who is without sin, be the first to throw the stone against her. And with these words, Jesus taught men that no one must kill other men because all men are sinners. Then, it does not matter if there were judges, or witnesses or some accused man. No one must kill other men because all men are sinners.

The witness was required to be without sin in the matter because they would be condemning themselves an accomplice by their own testimony, so Jesus was not speaking asking for someone who had never sinned, but who was free from sin in the matter that they were witnessing. God commanded there to be judges and at times commanded people to be executed, so He is not against judges or them giving the death sentence. In any case, it is not a good practice to base a doctrine solely on a passage with questionable authenticity, especially when your interpretation runs counter to what is said elsewhere in the Bible.

The true Law that God had given to Moses are the commandments of the Gospel. That is why Jesus nullified many Old Testament commandments, because they were not commandments of God but precepts of men, for the law of God had been changed by the scribes, as the prophets tell us:

"...but my people know not the ordinance of the LORD. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie". (Jeremiah 8:7-8)

Then, Jesus taught us the true commandments of God and canceled the commandments that were not really given by God.

Jesus was running into the same issue, where the Pharisees had been mishandling God's Law and incorrectly teaching about what is said to do, so he was correcting what they had been teaching about the Law, not doing away with it.
 
Upvote 0

1213

Disciple of Jesus
Jul 14, 2011
3,661
1,117
Visit site
✟146,199.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Jesus not only corrected false teachings, but also abolished many Old Testament commandments because they were only commandments of men. For example the law that commanded "eye for eye and tooth for tooth". Jesus abolished this law. And He annulled it because they were not true law of God but precept of men....

Law is what tells good and right and there may be also things that could be punishments for breaking the law. Jesus said he didn’t come to abolish the Law. That means, what was once wrong according to the law, is still wrong, at least if we speak about God’s law.

"Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. For most assuredly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished. Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Mat. 5:17-19

Jesus didn’t abolish the law, he came to declare forgiveness and so abolished the judgment that could come because of sin.

"The Spirit of the Lord is on me, Because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim release to the captives, Recovering of sight to the blind, To deliver those who are crushed, And to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord."
Luke 4:18-19

And that is why, even though the 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth' is fair judgment, Jesus came to tell that we should be merciful and:

"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, don't resist him who is evil; but whoever strikes you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. If anyone sues you to take away your coat, let him have your cloak also. Whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.
Matt. 5:38-41

On basis of what Jesus tells, murders, theft, lies etc. are still wrong, but if we are mistreated, we should be merciful and not seek the revenge.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Soyeong
Upvote 0

Porque77

Newbie
Oct 3, 2013
289
79
Visit site
✟20,512.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Thanks. Now I have your authority and blessing to cut the Old Testament out of the Bible because it is mostly the traditions of men and not the Word of God. That will make my life so much easier. Thanks!
No. You must not cut any part of the scriptures, because Jesus said we scrutinized the scriptures, not that cut them. And the Gospel also teaches that let us not pluck up the tares, lest we take the wheat with it (Matthew 13:24-30)

That of pluck up the tares is for the end of the world, when the angels of God do it.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Porque77

Newbie
Oct 3, 2013
289
79
Visit site
✟20,512.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
"An eye for an eye" was commanded by God as guideline for judges so that the sentence fairly matched the crime, but it was not intended to be use as a means of personal revenge as the Pharisees were doing, so Jesus was not nullifying what God had commanded, but rather he was correcting what was being taught about it.
That is not true. Jesus abolished the commandment that commanded men to apply an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, because Jesus said "whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also," then no man should injure or kill other men. Therefore, the "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" was annulled by Jesus:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and whosoever want to get to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your coat also, and whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" (Matthew 5:...)

The witness was required to be without sin in the matter because they would be condemning themselves an accomplice by their own testimony, so Jesus was not speaking asking for someone who had never sinned, but who was free from sin in the matter that they were witnessing.
That is not true, for Jesus was saying to cast the first stone against the woman any man who had never sinned among those men who wanted to kill the woman, and Jesus did not say anything about who was free from sin in the matter that they were witnessing, that is an interpretation of you, not what Jesus said:

"But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. And they, when they heard it, went out one by one, beginning from the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the midst". (Juan 8:3-12)


As you see, Jesus said: " He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her". So no man should kill other men, and nor no man should have killed other men in any age, for all men are sinners.

And Jesus, who is the only one free from sin, did not condemn the woman either:

"And Jesus lifted up himself, and said unto her, Woman, where are they? did no man condemn thee? And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more". (Juan 8:3-12)

You must understand that Jesus, with his teachings and his own example, annulled the Old Testament laws that commanded men to kill people, since Jesus abolished from the old testament all the commandments that were not true Law of God, but precepts of men, because Jesus did not come to abolish the true Law of God.

The Law that Jesus came not to abolish, from which shall pass not one jot or one tittle, is the Law of the Gospel, which is the true Law of God. But Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:31-48, Matthew 12:1-8, John 5:8-11, John 5:16-18, John 8:3-11 and the whole context of the Gospel). And He abolished them because weren't God's commandments, but precepts of men.

The Gospel says: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets.... one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law" (Matthew 5:17-20) .


In these words are based many religions to tell us that Jesus Christ came not to abolish the commandments of the Old Testament, but that is a mistake because these gospel words do not refer to the law of the Old Testament, because Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, as we see in Matthew 5: 21-48 and other parts of the Gospel.

The words of Jesus Christ in this famous verse (Matthew 5: 17), which tells us that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, refers to the true Law of God, which is the Law that Jesus Christ himself taught us in the Gospel. Jesus Christ teaches that the law and the prophets that He did not come to abolish is the following:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12) .

Therefore, this is the law that God gave to Israel because Jesus Christ himself says that "this is the law and the prophets". This is the law that remains in effect, that Jesus Christ came not to abolish ("Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets"). And of this law did pass "not one jot not one tittle", of the Law that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel and that is the true Law that God gave to Moses.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Soyeong

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2015
12,433
4,605
Hudson
✟284,422.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
That is not true. Jesus abolished ed the commandment that commanded men to apply an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, because Jesus said "whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also," then no man should injure or kill other men. Therefore, the "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" was annulled by Jesus:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also, and whosoever want to get to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your coat also, and whosoever shall compel thee to go one mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away" (Matthew 5:...)


The verses you cited do not contradict what I said. The phrase "eye for an eye" was intended to be used as a guideline by judges for fair sentencing where the punishment was not lesser or greater than the crime, but it was not intended to be used by us to justify personal revenge, and it was this abuse that Jesus was speaking against in those verses.

That is not true, for Jesus was saying to cast the first stone against the woman any man who had never sinned among those men who wanted to kill the woman, and Jesus did not say anything about who was free from sin in the matter that they were witnessing, hat is an interpretation of you, not what Jesus said:

"But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground. And they, when they heard it, went out one by one, beginning from the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the midst". (Juan 8:3-12)
As you see, Jesus said: " He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her". So no man should kill other men, and nor no man should have killed other men in any age, for all men are sinners.

And Jesus, who is the only one free from sin, did not condemn the woman either:

"And Jesus lifted up himself, and said unto her, Woman, where are they? did no man condemn thee? And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more". (Juan 8:3-12)


The witnesses in a trial needed to be sinless in the matter they were testifying against or else they would also condemn themselves, but it was not needed for the witness to have lived a completely sinless life, otherwise no one could act as a witness. It would make no sense whatsoever for God to give commands that called for them to enforce the death penalty and in regard to witnesses if it were impossible for them to obey that commands.

You must understand that Jesus, with his teachings and his own example, annulled the Old Testament laws that commanded men to kill people, since Jesus abolished from the old testament all the commandments that were not true Law of God, but precepts of men, because Jesus did not come to abolish the true Law of God.
The Law that Jesus came not to abolish, from which shall pass not one jot or one tittle, is the Law of the Gospel, which is the true Law of God. But Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament (Matthew 5:31-48, Matthew 12:1-8, John 5:8-11, John 5:16-18, John 8:3-11 and the whole context of the Gospel). And He abolished them because weren't God's commandments, but precepts of men.


When Jesus quoted from Scripture, he proceeded by saying "it is written", but when he was quoting from what his audience had heard being taught about Scripture, he proceeded it by saying "you have heard that it was said". So Jesus was not speaking against any OT Laws, but against the precepts of precepts of men that were being incorrectly taught about them. According to Deuteronomy 4:2 and Deuteronomy 12:32, it is a sin to add to or subtract from what God had commanded, by suggesting that Jesus annulled OT laws, you are suggesting that he sinned and therefore is not our Savior. And if he was just a man, then we should follow what God commanded instead of what he said, so either way we should follow OT laws. For example:

Matthew 5:27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Are you really suggesting that in this verse Jesus was nullifying the human precept against adultery and that we are now free to do that? Rather, Jesus was not saying anything brand new, but was correctly teaching how to understand God's law against adultery and against coveting.

Matthew 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’

Again, are you really suggest that Jesus was nullifying to human precept to love our neighbor? Rather, it is God who commanded us to love our neighbor (Leviticus 19:18), but nowhere did He command us to hate our enemy, so Jesus was correcting what was wrongly being taught about how to obey the Law.

In John 5:8-18, Jesus was not sinning or suggesting that we are free to sin by breaking the Sabbath, but rather he was speaking against what was wrongly being taught about how to keep the Sabbath.

Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent from our sins for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and God's Law was given to reveal which things are sins that we should repent of doing, so repentance from our disobedience to the Mosaic Law is an integral part of the Gospel message. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to redeem us from the Law, but to redeem us from all Lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for doing good works.

The Gospel says: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets.... one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law" (Matthew 5:17-20) .

Pleroo: to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment

In Matthew 5:17-20, Jesus said he came to cause God's will as made known in the Law to be obeyed as it should be and the proceeded to fulfill the Law six times by doing just that.

In these words are based many religions to tell us that Jesus Christ came not to abolish the commandments of the Old Testament, but that is a mistake because these gospel words do not refer to the law of the Old Testament, because Jesus Christ abolished many commandments of the Old Testament, as we see in Matthew 5: 21-48 and other parts of the Gospel.

You are essentially saying that Jesus said he came not to abolish the Law and said that not the least part would disappear from the law until heaven and earth passed away and all is accomplished, and then immediately proceeded to abolish the least of them.

The words of Jesus Christ in this famous verse (Matthew 5: 17), which tells us that He did not come to abolish the Law and the Prophets, refers to the true Law of God, which is the Law that Jesus Christ himself taught us in the Gospel. Jesus Christ teaches that the law and the prophets that He did not come to abolish is the following:

"All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets" (Matthew 7: 12) .

Therefore, this is the law that God gave to Israel because Jesus Christ himself says that "this is the law and the prophets". This is the law that remains in effect, that Jesus Christ came not to abolish ("Think not that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets"). And of this law did pass "not one jot not one tittle", of the Law that Jesus Christ teaches us in the Gospel and that is the true Law that God gave to Moses.

Jesus was sinless, and sin is defined as Lawlessness, which means that Jesus lived in perfect obedience to the Mosaic Law, which means that he taught obedience to it both by word and by example. He did not go off on his own and teach his own thing, but rather He said that he came only to do the Father's will (John 6:38), and that his teachings were not his own, but that of the Father (John 14:23-24).
 
Upvote 0