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What say you?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by B1inHim, Jan 4, 2014.

  1. B1inHim

    B1inHim LOVE one another

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    Not at all.

    There is more than enough evidence to show that the very generation that we are presently in, is the "generation" that will not pass till all these things take place.

    Soon?

    :clap:Sooner than most believe and much sooner than the time that the 1st century church was here:amen:
     
  2. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    OK,

    So when you say "soon" you mean something EXACTLY OPPOSITE to the Apostles "soon".

    Got it.

    Thanks
     
  3. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    When did this generation Start?

    How Long is a Generation?
     
  4. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

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    Not at all. Actually it's the opposite. The best thing we saints in today's generation can do, is learn from that generation.

    When Jesus was giving the Olivet Discourse, as was in every case where He said "this generation"...it was those to whom he was speaking:

    Matthew 11:16:
    16 “But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places, who call out to the other children,

    Matthew 12:41:
    41 The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.

    Matthew 12:42:
    42 The Queen of the South will rise up with this generation at the judgment and will condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here.

    Matthew 23:36:
    36 Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

    Matthew 24:34:
    34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.

    There is NO warrant to think "this generation" means anything other than those to whom our Lord was speaking.

    WE KNOW scripture knows who to speak to the generations...that is not it!
     
  5. Bible2

    Bible2 Guest

    +0
    That could be right.

    For Matthew 24:34 could mean that the temporal generation which would see the 1948 AD reestablishment of Israel, which could be symbolized by the rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34, Hosea 9:10, Joel 1:6-7, Luke 13:6-9, Matthew 21:19,43), won't pass, i.e. won't die off completely, until the future tribulation and 2nd coming of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 19 are fulfilled. A temporal generation may not pass until 70 or 80 years (Psalms 90:10), or 120 years (Genesis 6:3).

    This doesn't require that the 2nd coming will occur right before, like one year before, that generation will pass: i.e. 69, or 79, or 119 years after 1948: in 2017, 2027, or 2067. And if the tribulation which will immediately precede the 2nd coming and rapture (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6) will last 7 years (Daniel 9:27), the tribulation's first year didn't have to be in 2011, and won't have to be in 2021, or 2061, but could be in a future year (e.g. 2020) earlier than 2021.

    Matthew 24:34 could also include the meaning that the figurative, all-times generation of the elect (Matthew 24:22, Luke 16:8b, Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4) won't pass away from the earth during the future tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18, but that some of the elect will survive (Matthew 24:22) until Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,51-53) "immediately after" the tribulation of Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6 to 18 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).

    --

    The rebudding of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32) can refer to the 1948 reestablishment of Israel, just as Jesus' cursing of the fig tree (Matthew 21:19) was symbolic of his curse on unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel (Matthew 21:43). The Israel that was reestablished in 1948 is the same Old Covenant Israel that Jesus cursed at his first coming. For it still rejects Jesus and still considers itself to be under the Old Covenant. This Israel merely "putting forth leaves" again (Matthew 24:32) in 1948 was nothing more than a restoration to what the fig tree in Matthew 21:19,43 had been before it was cursed forever by Jesus and then destroyed in 70 AD: a tree with leaves, but without any fruit. And the unbelieving, Old Covenant Israel that was reestablished in 1948 may never bear fruit. For it could be destroyed before Jesus' 2nd coming, during a future war, by a Baathist army, just as it had been destroyed in 70 AD by a Roman-empire army.
     
  6. Bible2

    Bible2 Guest

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    Regarding the 1st seal's horseman, on the white horse (Revelation 6:1-2), that could represent the gospel of Jesus (not Jesus himself: Acts 3:21) going forth to all nations and victoriously saving souls. For Jesus is the rider on the white horse seen later in Revelation 19:11,13 (cf. John 1:1,14), and his gospel will be preached to all nations during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:14, Revelation 14:6). The bow (Revelation 6:2) is a weapon that is able to affect things far away, just as the gospel is able to affect things far away from where it began (Luke 24:47).

    The last 3 of the 4 horsemen (Revelation 6:4-8) represent a horrible future war which will begin the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which war will, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, end up killing 1/4 of the world (Revelation 6:8). The "great sword" of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons.

    *******

    Note that there is no such thing as the church age, for the church will continue in the world throughout all ages (Ephesians 3:21, John 17:15). For just as the church will continue in the world throughout the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6), and then throughout the subsequent millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29), so the church will then continue forever on the new earth (Revelation 21:1 to 22:5).

    Note that nothing requires that the entire future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 will be God's judgment or wrath, or that any part of the tribulation that will be his judgment or wrath will be directed against any of the saved people (1 Thessalonians 5:9) who will still be alive on the earth at that time (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6). Most of the tribulation could be only Satan's wrath working through evil people and natural forces to bring disaster on the earth, like when Satan was allowed to work through evil people and natural forces to bring disaster on righteous Job (Job 1:12-20), against whom God had no wrath.

    The tribulation's first 5 seals (Revelation 6:1-11) won't be God's judgment or wrath, for after the first 4 seals the martyrs of the 5th seal ask God when he is going to bring his judgment against the world (Revelation 6:10). And the killing of even more martyrs, which the 5th seal foretells will happen sometime after the 5th seal (Revelation 6:11), won't be God's judgment or wrath against those martyrs. So Jesus' unsealing the tribulation's seals (Revelation 6), the tribulation's first stage, doesn't mean that the events unsealed will be God's judgment or wrath, but that they will be permitted by God to happen at that time.

    The tribulation's 6th seal (Revelation 6:12-14) will happen sometime before the day of the Lord (Joel 2:31, Revelation 6:12), whereas the day of the Lord/Christ (2 Thessalonians 2:2) will begin at his 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't happen until Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, immediately after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). Similarly, the day of the Lord's wrath (Psalms 110:5) won't begin until Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:19-21).

    So the people quoted at the 6th seal (Revelation 6:17), during only the first stage of the tribulation, could be just as mistaken as Job was when Job said that what was happening to him was God's wrath against him (Job 19:11). Just as what was happening to Job was actually Satan's wrath against him, not God's wrath, so the 6th seal could actually be Satan's wrath, not God's wrath. And just as the writer of the book of Job didn't go out of his way to correct Job's mistaken statement in Job 19:11, and just as the apostles John and Matthew didn't go out of their ways to correct the mistaken statements of the people they quoted in John 7:12b and Matthew 27:63a, so the apostle John could have not gone out of his way to correct the statement of the people he quoted in Revelation 6:17.

    After the tribulation's 6th seal will occur its 7th seal (Revelation 8:1), out of which will come its 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-2). Note that nothing requires that any of the first 6 trumpets' events in Revelation chapters 8 and 9 will be God's wrath. The 5th trumpet's events will be the work of weird locust-like beings from the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:2-10) led by a fallen angel from the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:11). And the 6th trumpet's events to the end of Revelation 9 will be the work of weird horse-like beings led by 4 fallen angels previously bound at the Euphrates (Revelation 9:14-19). So even though good angels of God will sound the first 6 trumpets, this could be announcing God's allowing the wrath of Satan to destroy 1/3 of different things (Revelation 8:7-12, Revelation 9:15,18), just as Satan will subsequently, mid-tribulation, be allowed by God to cause 1/3 of the angels (i.e. the fallen angels) to be cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:4,9).

    Revelation chapters 8 and 9 will happen before the Antichrist's (the individual-man aspect of the beast's) future, literal 3.5-year worldwide Luciferian/Satanic reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9). And the events in Revelation chapters 8 and 9 could be used by Satan to help prepare the world to welcome that reign. For what he could do is first take great pleasure in causing the destruction in each event, but then claim that the destruction isn't from him, but from YHWH, and that YHWH is a cruel tyrant god who hates mankind and only wants to make it suffer, while he (Satan, as "Lucifer") only wants the best for mankind (cf. Mark 8:33b). In this way, he could deceive the world into turning away from YHWH and instead worshipping him (the dragon) and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9). The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36).

    After the Antichrist's literal 3.5-year reign (Revelation 13:5-7) is declared legally over at the sounding of the tribulation's 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:15), the 7 plagues of the 7 vials of God's wrath will come out of the heavenly-temple opening of the 7th trumpet (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1). The vials will then be poured out on the Antichrist's followers as God's judgment for their receiving the Antichrist's mark and worshipping his image (Revelation 16:2), and for their killing of people in the church (Revelation 16:6-7, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

    During the Antichrist's worldwide reign, people in the church will be hated and killed in every nation for refusing to renounce the name of Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:9-13). They will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the witness of Jesus Christ (Revelation 20:4), for refusing to accept the antichrist lies that Jesus himself isn't the Christ (1 John 2:22), and that Christ himself isn't in the flesh (2 John 1:7). They will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the sound doctrine of the Bible, the Word of God (Revelation 20:4; 2 Timothy 3:15 to 4:4), for refusing to depart from the Biblical faith and give heed instead to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils (1 Timothy 4:1-2). They will be beheaded for refusing to worship the Antichrist's image (Revelation 20:4, Revelation 13:15). And all of this will be Satan's wrath against the church (Revelation 12:17), not God's wrath, for the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

    Even when God's wrath comes in the 7 vials (Revelation 16), the tribulation's final stage, because the church isn't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9), none of the vials will be directed at any of those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at that time, still waiting for Jesus' coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Instead, they will go into protective chambers which they will have prepared for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had prepared for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:11,13).

    Jesus will return right after the 7th and last vial is completed (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21, Matthew 24:29-30), and he will bring the 2nd-coming wrath of God on the unsaved world (Revelation 19:15-21). But before that 2nd-coming wrath begins, the church will be caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31) into the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).

    At that meeting, Jesus will judge everyone in the church (Psalms 50:3-5, cf. Mark 13:27) by their works (2 Corinthians 5:10, Romans 2:6-8, Luke 12:45-48, Matthew 25:19-30). And then Jesus will marry in the clouds the obedient part of the church (Revelation 19:7-8, Matthew 25:1-12), those in the church (of all times) who "overcame" to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). They will then mount white horses and come back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) as he defeats the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") and all the armies of the world (Revelation 19:15-21). Jesus will then make the marriage supper of Revelation 19:9 for the resurrected and married obedient part of the church in the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 25:6-9; 1 Corinthians 15:54). Jesus and the obedient part of the church will then reign on the earth for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).
     
  7. B1inHim

    B1inHim LOVE one another

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    Notice the word "could" which could mean; used for saying that something is possible or that it may happen or spoken used for suggesting to someone a possible course of action or used for saying that perhaps something was true, although you do not really know or...

    Most all of what I see in your post :thumbsup: PRAISE GOD!

    One thing, the point made about "who" is ruling during the Millennial Reign.

    Those positions are reserved for anyone who meets the specific criteria and strict prerequisite;a thing that is required as a prior condition for something else to happen or exist.

    There can be no embellishment by interjecting outside source verses to make this available to ALL.

    ONLY "the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

    The first resurrection is always confused with being the same thing as the harpazo. That is why we need to separate the reward from the judgement.
    DIFFERENT subject for another time.

    Anyhow, unless we are the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

    ALL of us do NOT QUALIFY.

    Father is not going to change the way that He does things to support a self-centered, egotistical teaching like "everybody" who is a Christian rules with Lord Jesus during this specific time. So the
    does not apply.

    God is always the "same", always.

    In that today there are orders of service to Him
    IE;He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15 but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ— 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love.

    Are we all apostles? Are we all prophets? Are we all teachers? Do we all have the power to do miracles?

    No.
    Each ministry gift has a specific operation or service to give the Body. A teacher may serve for a moment as giving prophecy but that does not make him a Prophet.


    The eye can never say to the hand, "I don't need you." The head can't say to the feet, "I don't need you."

    Yet, the Head will not say to the whole Body, you are ALL rulers.

    SOME may cite the right to rule nations at this point and this is what the Word says;

    "And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river, was the tree of life, which bore twelve fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month. The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

    These nations are post WTJ, so the 1.2+ BILLION children of God that have lived, died, harpazoed, resurrected... will have plenty of chances to be a ruler of a nation.

    Otherwise,
    COULD mean that over 1 BILLION bought and paid for obedient church people since the ascension Acts 1 to Rev 20, would be ruling over 6 or 7 people each. in a world that only has[SIZE=-1][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, courier, courier new], [/FONT][/SIZE][FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, courier, courier new][SIZE=-1]depending on the source, 189, 191, 192, 193, 194, 195 or 196 independent countries in the world today.

    Not meaning to diminish the power of God, so He could (there's that word again)...He could make 1 BILLION little countries on [/SIZE][/FONT]the total land surface area of Earth of about 57,308,738 square miles, of which about 33% is desert and about 24% is mountainous. Subtracting this uninhabitable 57% (32,665,981 mi2) from the total land area leaves 24,642,757 square miles or 15.77 billion acres of habitable land. Making it possible for each person who is part of the over 1 BILLION bought and paid for obedient church people since the ascension Acts 1 to Rev 20 would get approx 15 acres apiece for the 7 people to live on with one ruler.

    Sound foolish?

    One more time, "ONLY "the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.'

    Pre and Post T martyred saints would sum that up and meet the pre-requsts.

    Which brings us to one more thing...IF we are were to get some palatial 25+room mansion or whatever size mansion that many here see in their hearts.

    AND all of them were placed together on the land mass inside of the NJ which is
    The Heavenly Jersualem is 12,000 furlongs in height, width, and length. A furlong is 220 yards, therefore,

    Each side is 660 feet times 12,000 feet = 7,920,000 feet (per side) . One mile is 5,280 feet, so each side is 7,920,000 divided by 5280 feet = 1500 MILES on each side.

    1500 X 1500 x 1500 = 3,375,000,000 cubic miles for the whole city .

    If each floor is 10 feet high, then, there are 792,000 floors: 1500 miles high * 5280 = 7,920,000 feet high

    7,920,000 / 10 feet = 792,000 floors.If each "mansion" on each floor is 500 feet X 500 feet = 250,000 square feet, and each floor is
    1500 * 1500 = 2,250,000 square miles per floor

    7,920,000 * 7,920,000 = 62,726,400,000,000 square feet per floor.

    62,726,400,000,000 sq ft per floor div by 250,000 sq ft per "mansion" = 250,905,600 "mansions" per floor.Since there are 792,000 floors and 250,905,600 "mansions" per floor, then,
    there are 198,717,235,300,000 "mansions" in "my Father's house."

    This means there could potentially be 198 trillion, 717 billion, 235 million, and 300 thousands "mansions" in "my Father's house."
    Each of these mansions being 250,000 square feet.

    This is NOT in the Bible either.

    John 14:2 (KJV)
    In My Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

    Mansion = mon-ay'; from Greek 3306 (meno); a staying, i.e. residence (the act or the place) :- abode, mansion.
    We ARE a spirit, we HAVE a soul, and we LIVE IN a body

    BEFORE we became saved our body was just a body, today if you are a Christian now, you live in a Tabernacle or Temple
    (2 Pet. 1:13/1 Cor:619), when the transformation for the dead and alive put on incorruptible and immortal, they will need a MANSION for where their spirit and soul may have a place.

    ANYTHING is possible for GOD and if He wants y'all to rule during the 1,000 years and have a palatial mansion... all He has to do is change what He told us in His Word concerning these matters to what many think.

    I hope and pray that whoever reads this is no offended by my post. That is the furthest thing from the truth.

    Love,
    משרתם בונד של ישו
    Brother Jerry

    Here is a little fellowship music to enjoy

    How Great is our GOD WORLD EDITION LiVe - YouTube
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2014
  8. Bible2

    Bible2 Guest

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    Revelation 20:4-6 doesn't mean that only those people in the church who will be beheaded by the Antichrist will be resurrected in the first resurrection and reign with Jesus during the millennium. For the first resurrection will be the bodily resurrection of the dead of the entire church (of all times) at Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16). And every obedient person in the church (of all times) will reign on the earth with Jesus during the millennium (Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10).
     
  9. B1inHim

    B1inHim LOVE one another

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    No matter what is believed, the Word is explicit concerning the group in Rev 20.

    The design that you are offering is no less nor greater than an ear tickler.

    'The first resurrection" is the first resurrection that happens after the conflict in Rev 19.

    The difference between the first resurrection and the harpazo is this.

    The one that shows the results of the GM is broad and forthcoming. Rev. 7:9 (KJV)
    After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

    This is not the same group in Rev. 20:4 (KJV)
    And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    The theology of everybody who is saved get to rule during the 1,000 years is self centered, egotistical and carnal.

    As was shown, [FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica, courier, courier new][SIZE=-1]He could make 1 BILLION little countries on [/SIZE][/FONT]the total land surface area of Earth of about 57,308,738 square miles, of which about 33% is desert and about 24% is mountainous. Subtracting this uninhabitable 57% (32,665,981 mi2) from the total land area leaves 24,642,757 square miles or 15.77 billion acres of habitable land. Making it possible for each person who is part of the over 1 BILLION bought and paid for obedient church people since the ascension Acts 1 to Rev 20 would get approx 15 acres apiece for the 7 people to live on with one ruler.

    This is NOT what is going to happen.

    One more time, "ONLY "the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.'

    Pre and Post T martyred saints would sum that up and meet the pre-requsts.

    OTHERWISE Apostle John would have wrote; Rev. 20:4 (KJV)
    And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; they lived along with every obedient person in the church of all times. For the first resurrection will be the bodily resurrection of the dead of the entire church of all times at Jesus' 2nd coming and they reigned with Christ a thousand years.


    He did not write it so, therefore it is not as your design magnifies and now a little warning...Rev. 22:18 (KJV)
    For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

    The choice is yours to make, add to the scripture to fulfill what can clearly be defined as a clever ear tickling, self centered, egotistical, carnal teaching or NOT embellish, NOT try to make this more attractive by the addition of decorative details and accept that NOT every obedient person in the church (of all times) will reign on the earth with Jesus during the millennium.
    Stop teaching it.

    What is written is written in the way that it is written for a specific purpose.

    The purpose is God ordained and not by individual interpretation.


    Love,
    משרתם בונד של ישו
    Brother Jerry
     
  10. Bible2

    Bible2 Guest

    +0
    Revelation 20:4-6 doesn't mean that the first resurrection will happen sometime after Revelation 19:7 to 20:3. For just as the gathering together (rapture) of the church at Jesus' 2nd coming (Matthew 24:30-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) will happen right before Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, so will the first resurrection. For the resurrection of the church (of all times) at Jesus' 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52) will immediately precede the rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:15-16).

    Revelation 20:4-6 simply means that the obedient part of the church (of all times), which by that time will have already been resurrected, gathered together, and married to Jesus (Revelation 19:7), will then live and reign with him on the earth during the millennium. In Revelation 20:4, the original Greek word (zao, G2198) translated as "and they lived" means just that. It doesn't mean "and they resurrected" at the time of Revelation 20:4-6. After those resurrected in the first resurrection have lived through the millennium and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-10), everyone else who has ever died will be resurrected in a 2nd resurrection, at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15).

    Note that Revelation 7:9-17 doesn't require a pre-Revelation 19 rapture. For in Revelation 7:9-17, the great multitude can be only that part of the church (Revelation 7:14b) which will enter the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and then come out of it (Revelation 7:14) and enter heaven (Revelation 7:15) by dying (cf. Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8) during the 2nd through 6th seals in the chapter just prior (Revelation 6), the tribulation's first stage.

    This would be similar to how the souls of "them that were slain for the word of God", who will be under the altar in heaven at the 5th seal (Revelation 6:9-11), will enter heaven by dying sometime before the 5th seal. And it would be similar to how those in the church who will be on the sea of glass in heaven (Revelation 15:2, cf. Revelation 12:11) at the tribulation's 7 last plagues (Revelation chapters 15-16), the tribulation's final stage, will enter heaven by dying during the just-preceding, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

    Revelation 22:18 is a warning against adding ideas to the actual text of the book of Revelation, and then publishing the altered text as if those ideas were in the original text. Revelation 22:18 isn't a warning against simply saying something in a discussion such as "Velcro exists", or "Aliens could exist", ideas which aren't found in the book of Revelation (or anywhere else in the Bible), but are nonetheless true.

    Also, the idea of the entire church reigning on the earth in the future is found in Revelation (Revelation 2:26-29, Revelation 5:10).
     
  11. B1inHim

    B1inHim LOVE one another

    +74
    Charismatic
    In Relationship
    We are done here.

    You have what you believe.

    Rev. 20:4 (Bible2Version)
    And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; they lived along with every obedient person in the church of all times. For the first resurrection will be the bodily resurrection of the dead of the entire church of all times at Jesus' 2nd coming and they reigned with Christ a thousand years.

    If what you are saying is not adding your idea to the text...

    ...so based on your ideology, God gathers us unto Himself in Rev 7 and makes us stay here to endure the wrath from Himself to the unrepentant...

    Not according to the Bible.

    We are done here, I am not yielding.
    We do not agree.

    You have been shown twice, that is enough.

    Shalom which mean be at peace.
    :amen:
     
  12. Interplanner

    Interplanner Newbie

    +96
    Non-Denom
    Single
    B1, I think B2 is a computer program. There are certain trigger words that fetch certain paragraphs to print, which always sound exactly the same. They also always have the term "Note that..." which reminds me of those car navigation program voices. You won't be able to interact. I'm not even sure there is a human being there. You will just have prepackaged paragraphs flung out at the forum.
     
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