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what race do you think ancient egypt was?

Discussion in 'History & Genealogy' started by Sammy-San, Dec 27, 2014.

  1. Sammy-San

    Sammy-San Newbie

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    This is a very controversial topic-and I'm not bringing it up to argue Afrocentrism or racist views that "the ancient egyptians couldnt have been black". Many people have biased views and agendas regarding this subject-but my interest in this subject is purely academic.

    My personal view is that the Egyptians in ancient times were black-more specifically they were related to and looked like the East African people of today.

    I tend not to focus on "this pharoah was black" or "what they looked like in the paintings" because that evidence is very anectodal. What a certain dynasty or people in a few photos looked like does not represent the entire population of a country or area. I think DNA and anatomy is the strongest piece of evidence-and I will present it.

    Some studies show the invasions didnt change the DNA of current Egyptians significantly.

    DNA history of Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    There are certain studies that say the invasions didnt change the race/dna of egypt.

    DNA history of Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    My guess is that to determine the level that the invasions affected the dna/race of the modern Egyptians is to compare ancient and modern DNA and see how close their genes are-then directly compare ancient and modern DNA of Egyptians-and thats something that these students havent done. They only determine ancient and modern Egyptians have some similar DNA. If you have some evidence against my claims, please mention it.

    I dont think the studies comparing DNA are detailed enough to come to the conclusion modern egyptians are the same as the ancient ones-and anatomy studies show them as being similar to black africans.

    Also, at the time Egypt was invaded in ancient times, their population was very tiny in comparison to today, so an invasion could have changed their racial component significantly (similar to how most of the hundreds of millions of South Americans are mestizos-descendants of the smaller native populations who intermarried with European settlers.)
     
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  2. Sammy-San

    Sammy-San Newbie

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    Another interesting study on this subject.

     
  3. mafwons

    mafwons Hi guys

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    Sounds like evolutionary filth to me, the Bible tells us the origin of all the ancient cultures, does it not?
     
  4. LionL

    LionL Believer in God, doubter of religion

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    North African.
     
  5. Kuraisto

    Kuraisto Guest

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    The ancient Egyptians would paint Cushites (those from present-day Sudan, Ethiopia) as a very dark brown or black, darker than how they would paint themselves. I believe the ancient Egyptians were similar to the Moors or Berbers.
     
  6. mafwons

    mafwons Hi guys

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    Human race as far as I can tell.
     
  7. Bknight006

    Bknight006 Lost in the Multiverse

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    ...You're kidding, right? Please tell me you're kidding.

    EDIT: After looking at your second comment, I realized you were kidding. Never mind me. XD
     
  8. Kate94

    Kate94 New Member

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    It's my understanding that they were a somewhat mixed race society. The modern day Copts of Egypt are considered to be their descendants, at least in large part, so I would imagine they were similar in appearance and looked like most North Africans. You probably also had some admixture from the Nubians (Biblical Cushites) in the south. Taking a look at portraits of pharaohs like Akhenaten suggest some Nubian ancestry, even if King Tut's Y haplogroup suggests he was related to Europeans it wasn't very likely the majority of his heritage.
     
  9. Cearbhall

    Cearbhall Well-Known Member

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    Genesis isn't quite that comprehensive. :rolleyes:
     
  10. peepnklown

    peepnklown rabbi peepnklown

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    Reptilian? ^_^
     
  11. Sammy-San

    Sammy-San Newbie

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    Is it fair to say that this is an irrelevant mystery?
     
  12. raschau

    raschau homo viator

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    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
  13. ShamashUruk

    ShamashUruk Hello

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    Almost correct, the Egyptians originated from Sub-Saharan African's, even Egyptian pyramids are replicated as such. We don't see influence from Babylon as they would have only been familiar with Ziggaruts' and influenced from Akkadian's and Sumerian's. Also, Sub-Saharan African's are pre Kush, they are an early Nubian civilization.
     
  14. ShamashUruk

    ShamashUruk Hello

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    Close Egyptians were descended from Sub-Saharan African's, they are an early Nubian civilization (denoting they are pre Cush) and have an obviously Afrocentric language.

    Cush (son of Noah) would have originated in Sumer, and his father would not be called Noah but Ziusudra from the earlier epic of Ziusudra. However, Cush (check Sumer kings list) would have migrated much later to Africa.
     
  15. marseph98

    marseph98 New Member

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    They were black...there are 3 types of peoples in the world, Asian, White and Black (Latins are a mixture of white and Asian, those from India are black and Asian), each race is represented by the sons of Noah, in this case Shem (Asian), Japheth (White) and Ham (Black).

    I recently took a class on the history of the Middle East, it is well documented that Egyptians feared Asians, Asians were considered anything from the Middle East and beyond. Fascinating class I might add.

    I recently took a DNA test, apparently I have a lot of mixing in me, White, Asian and a sliver of Black. I'm guessing that back in Egyptian days there was a lot of mingling and conquests, things change, peoples change. Today Egyptians are Arabs not Black which tells me the Blacks were pushed out and/or co-mingled.

    The hieroglyphics they left shows them as black though...head-dress and all....
     
  16. ShamashUruk

    ShamashUruk Hello

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    Egyptians were descended from Sub-Saharan African's, they are an early Nubian civilization (denoting they are pre Cush) and have an obviously Afrocentric language.

    Cush (son of Noah) would have originated in Sumer, and his father would not be called Noah but Ziusudra from the earlier epic of Ziusudra. However, Cush (check Sumer kings list) would have migrated much later to Africa. Hence the Nubian reference, but yes for the most part the Egyptians are of Afro descent not of Sumerian.
     
  17. marseph98

    marseph98 New Member

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    @ShamashUruk, Remember the tower of Babel when all became separated or confused...languages added/changed names...Noah could be this Ziusudra your refer too, even Gilgamesh to me is one and the same but with a different name since the languages were confused.
     
  18. ShamashUruk

    ShamashUruk Hello

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    Researcher and archaeologist Samuel Noah Kramer had already introduced a Cuneiform tablet, the tablet is transliterated from Sumerian language and called "Enki confuser of languages", the nam-shub of Enki provides tells the story of linguisitic disintegration as part of the tale "Enmerkar and the Land of Aratta" (Kramer, Samuel Noah and John R. Maier, Enki, the Crafty God, New York, Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1989).

    The earliest version comes from Sumer, and is written in poetic line form:

    In those days, the land Shubur-Hamazi,
    Harmony-tongued Sumer, the great land of the me of princeship,
    Uri, the land having all that is appropriate,
    The land Martu, resting in security,
    The whole universe, the people well cared for,
    To Enlil in one tongue gave speech.

    Then the lord defiant, the prince defiant, the king defiant

    Enki, the lord of abundance, whose commands are trustworthy,
    The lord of wisdom, who scans the land,
    The leader of the gods,
    The lord of Eridu, endowed with wisdom,
    Changed the speech in their mouths, put contention into it,
    Into the speech of man that had been one.

    In the much later written Biblical tale we see:

    1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
    2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
    3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
    4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
    5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
    6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
    7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
    8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
    9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

    The Sumerian cuneiform text "Enmerkar and the Lord of Aratta" also "relates how the god Enki ["the crafty god"] had put an end to man's "golden age" under Enlil's [the God of Heaven's] universal sway over the earth and its inhabitants" (Kramer, Samuel Noah. History Begins at Sumer. University of Pennsylvania Press: Philadelphia, Third Edition, 1981, 21). We also see the concept of the earliest times representing man's golden age in the Greek poet Hesiod's five ages of man and the Roman poet Ovid's four ages of man.

    Also, in the Bible Genesis 11: 1-9 it is originally translated from the Hebrew which is a Semitic tongue, Sumerian tongue is much older and predates Semitic tongue.

    This indicates at least to linguists that the Hebrew based Semitic tongue was invented much later and after Akkadian Semitic based tongue was developed. Making the Hebrew language a defunct Canaanite language, as the Israelite's come out of Canaan. Sumer existed before Akkad, the Israelite's and St Moses were not at all Sumerian.

    It would be hard to conclude that the epics of Adam and Eve are any less then the earlier epics of Sumerian creation legends and myths. Aside from this (and many scholars will agree) that St. Moses did not pen Genesis, the earlier version being Eridu Genesis.

    Something else to consider the "tower of Babel" is thought to have been fashioned after a Ziggurat in, however, the Babel tower was thought to be built upwards and Ziggurat's were not formed in this fashion, the adoption of the Babel tower could have been Pyramid shaped, but there is little evidence for that as the Egyptian's did not build their towers or pyramids identical to Ziggurat's. Also, the Egyptian's were influenced by Sub-Saharan people and not Sumerian's. Hence, we see the Babylonian's being influenced by Sumer and not Egypt. The Israelite's would have had more influence from Babylon than Egypt, so most likely the "Tower of Babel" is a poorly written construct of an older Sumerian tale, as the Israelite tower is built upwards and directly, while Pyramids had differing foundations, as well the Sumerian Ziggurat's were shaped in their own fashion, and it is most likely that Babylon would have had their own Ziggurat's. I am not aware of the Israelite's being influenced by the Egyptian's, more likely the Babylonian's as they end up in Babylonian captivity.
     
  19. marseph98

    marseph98 New Member

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    Fascinating...I didn't know there was another story of Babel outside of the Bible. I like your idea of the pyramids too, Pyramids were also found in the America's yet they were not African in descent at all but Asian, I wonder if it was a pyramid-type but much better constructed (granted the ones we have now are magnificent I wonder if the original would of put those to shame). Also, Pyramids are all over the world, from East Asia to Southern Europe to the America's...

    You have a lot of knowledge, may I inquire what you do for a living?
     
  20. ShamashUruk

    ShamashUruk Hello

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    The Bible story is a replication of a Sumerian epic and Sumerian Ziggurat. There is one Cuneiform with both Sumerian epic and Sumerian Ziggurat, the epic of Enki confuser of languages and an adaptation of the Ziggurat to the tower of Babel. It's not likely that Babylonian's had "Pyramids" most likely they would have had Ziggurat's or replica's of it.

    Mesoamerican temples are not the same as Pyramids, they are temples, there is an inherent difference between each:

    Mayan, Inca, Aztec temples are simply temples that are somewhat stylized in Ziggurat form, but are meant to be structure's to the Gods. So most likely human sacrifice and God worship would have been the center of Mesoamerican temples. However, it could be stated that one of those culture's did not sacrifice human beings.

    While the sarcophagus in the Pyramid's was for funerary practices in Egypt for Pharoah's. Hence the Pyramids were not built as worship sites, but as burial sites. While Pharoah's are regarded as powerful, they are not associated with Egyptian Gods directly, and not all Egyptian's were polytheistic, I believe the Ankht were monotheistic.

    The Sumerian Ziggurat's would likely predate Mesoamerican temples, but those were temples built directly for honor of Sumerian Gods such as the Ziggurat to Anu an the white temple. In some instance human sacrifice did occur and in other's it did not, it may have depended on which city-state a person was in, we see this later on in Biblical literature.

    A good example of later performed rituals; Hattat rituals in Leviticus 16, we see stylized in older rituals in early Mesopotamia. The blood is smeared on the temple and a goat is ultimately sent to Azazel the creature of the wilderness.

    When you say pyramids all over the world, there is a difference between the use of a pyramid and temple. It really has to do with the function and pyramids are not stylized after Ziggurat's or Mesoamerican temples, pyramids are most likely influenced from Sub-Saharan African's.

    I am about to be a film student, so I guess you can call me a film maker or soon to be, I just left the legal field so I can pursue film making.
     
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