What particular Church can claim the most martyrs?

helmut

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Anyone can live nomadically in the desert, but the beduin have specific tribal governments and culture that differ from say, patriarchal Jewish nomads.
You are right, I was to loose with that term. But then it is questionable whether there were any Bedouins in NT times (since they spread only later), and as I said, almost every people in the NT focus was non-Arab (with the possible exception of those in "Arabia", Gal 1,17).
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Residence does not change the relation to a people. Pilatus was no less Roman in Judaea than in Rome.

Do you want to imply that Romans who were Jews were bad Roman citizens? This sounds like 1st-century antisemitism ;)
Really? There were Jews, Idumeans (many of them Jews, because Judaeized by the Maccabees), Phoenicians, Aramaic people - but Arabs? Somewhere east of Pella (a region east of Jordan, politically part of Galilee) was the Nabataean kingdom, the "Arabia" Paul mentions in Galatians, but he probably meant the northern part which for some times even included Damascus (cf. 2.Cor 11,32), an area inhabited by Aramaeans, not Arabs.

The people mentioned above were Arabized after the conquer by the Muslim Arabs, only some Aramaeans are left over by now (Jews were driven out by the Romans in 135, so I don't count them as local people), but they were definitely no Arabs in NT times, with the exception of the Nabataeans (but true Arabs lived more in the south).

There were NOT many Jews who were also Roman citizens outside of Rome so I have no idea what your point is. My point was Christianity IN Rome. Remember one of the earliest Churches was in Armenia. I am using the term Arab meaning middle eastern peoples in Syria, etc. There was no Jordan then either...
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Really? Resurrection day can be before 14th Nisan, as in 2016 (Easter: 22.3./14th Nisan: 22.4.) or 2024 (31.3./22.4.), and most often it is after 14th Nisan, as in 2019 (14th Nisan: 19.04., Easter: 21.4.), so I conclude they might coincide in some years. Do You have a proof to the contrary?

And since the Jews celebrate the feast for one week, 2019 is an instance where Easter coincides with Jewish Passover (pessakh).


This is not a question of East or West, it is a question of language. Easter is "pascha" in Latin, and hence most Romanic languages have a term derived from that (e.g.French Pâques, Portuguese Páscoa, and Portugal is very western;)), and there are also several non-Romanic languages (e.g. Swedish påsk).
It were Celtic missionaries which used the word "Easter" to translate the name of this feast, and the Anglo-Saxon missionaries that worked in what is now western Germany carried this term into our language (Ostern - the sound change proves the term was derived from east ("Osten" in German). AFAIK no non-Germanic language uses this term, but rather "passah" or "feast of resurrection".

You say that because you do not understand it I assume. Passover is ONLY the 14th, the resurrection can never be on the 14th...it was 3 days later. No, Easter is NOT Pascha in Latin...it is Pascha. Latin adopted the Greek term for the feast.
 
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helmut

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There were NOT many Jews who were also Roman citizens outside of Rome so I have no idea what your point is.
I responded to you, but you made not clear what your point was.

There were not many Jews who were Roman citizens in Rome either. Jews were a minority among Roman citizens, and Roman citizens were a minority among Jews. But as to absolute numbers, there were thousands of Jews being Roman citizens, throughout he empire.

My point was Christianity IN Rome.
I see, you did not contrast Jews and Romans, as I thought.

Remember one of the earliest Churches was in Armenia.
Before there was a church in Armenia, there was a a church in Judaea proper (Acts 2 etc.), in Samaria (Acts 8), in Syria (Damascus, Acts 9, Antioch upon Orontes, Acts 11), Cyprus and Galatia (Antioch near Pisidia, Acts 13, etc.), Macedonia (Acts 16), Greece (Acts 17), Italy (Acts 18:2), Egypt (Alexandria, Acts 18:24), Asia (landscape, i.e. Ephesus and surrounding, Acts 19) and other countries.

Arrnenia was the first country where the Church began to rely on states power, the beginning of a deformation which even led to churches persecuting followers of Jesus.

I am using the term Arab meaning middle eastern peoples in Syria, etc.
Inn other words, you call people Arabs who were Arabized centuries later.

There was no Jordan then either...
o_O:confused:??? Of course there was a Jordan river, and there was a landscape east of Jordan which politically belonged to Galilee (hence Luke calls it Galilee e.g. in 17:11), and east of that territory there was the Arab kingdom of the Nabataeans. Whether the Nabataeans were Arabs in the narrowest sense, is a matter of discussion.
 
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helmut

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Passover is ONLY the 14th,
Ask a Jew when he celebrates Pessakh ...

the resurrection can never be on the 14th...it was 3 days later.
We don't discuss when the resurrection happened, we discuss when the feast is celebrated. The latter date is a matter of decision. I showed to you that Easter is celebrated before the 14th Nisan in some years and after the 14th Nisan in others. So why should there be no year where Easter Sunday coincides with 14th Nisan?

No, Easter is NOT Pascha in Latin...it is Pascha.
You contradict yourself. What is "Easter" in Latin? Is it Pascha or not Pascha?
I told you an easy way to find out what Easter is in Latin: Go to Wikipedia, open the "Easter" page, and then change to the Latin page for that term (there is a Latin Wikipedia). Then you will know what Easter is in Latin. Same with other languages. Where, do you think, did I get the Indonesian term "paskah"from? :D

Latin adopted the Greek term for the feast.
I never said anything to the contrary, and I have even confirmed it ... why do you repeat it?
 
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helmut

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Waiting for Jesus to sign in under the moniker Oy Vey.
"Oy vey" is Yiddish for "Ouch" (Au weh in German), I guess. Jesus will not sign in here, but if He did, He would almost certainly use another moniker more appropriate for Him.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Remember one of the earliest Churches was in Armenia.
Why did you think so?
Before there was a church in Armenia, there was a a church in Judaea proper (Acts 2 etc.), in Samaria (Acts 8), in Syria (Damascus, Acts 9, Antioch upon Orontes, Acts 11), Cyprus and Galatia (Antioch near Pisidia, Acts 13, etc.), Macedonia (Acts 16), Greece (Acts 17), Italy (Acts 18:2), Egypt (Alexandria, Acts 18:24), Asia (landscape, i.e. Ephesus and surrounding, Acts 19) and other countries.
Thank you.

Arrnenia was the first country where the Church began to rely on states power, the beginning of a deformation which even led to churches persecuting followers of Jesus.
I don't think the groups that persecuted the true believers want that to be known. (obviously)
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Depends on what He read here first ( I prefer the woe or woe is me translation)
Really?
I don't think so.
First of all, He never went to talk personally with anyone, unless they had first spoken to the Father in heaven (ABBA ELOHIM YAHWEH).

Second, He ALWAYS did and said as directed by ABBA YAHWEH,
NEVER from His own initiative/ never for His self,
as written in Yahweh's Word.

So He would as always DO what the Father directed Him to DO,
not based on what He read anywhere.

We , also, are directed by ABBA YAHWEH, as JESUS taught us ,
and not by the failing temporal worldly flesh and things.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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"Oy vey" is Yiddish for "Ouch" (Au weh in German), I guess. Jesus will not sign in here, but if He did, He would almost certainly use another moniker more appropriate for Him.
If He read the rules, He might never sign in.
 
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helmut

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Really?
I don't think so.
First of all, He never went to talk personally with anyone, unless they had first spoken to the Father in heaven (ABBA ELOHIM YAHWEH).
You mean the Samaritan woman in John 4 had personally spoken to the father in heaven?
 
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helmut

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As Yahweh's Word illustrates, yes.
Which word of YHWH illustrates that this woman had spoken to the father? Yešuwʕ spoke to her first, she had no understanding, and only when He revealed that he knew of her five marriages and the non-marital (aldulterous?) relation he was now engaged in she began to understand. This does not point to her speaking personally to the father.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Which word of YHWH illustrates that this woman had spoken to the father? Yešuwʕ spoke to her first, she had no understanding, and only when He revealed that he knew of her five marriages and the non-marital (aldulterous?) relation he was now engaged in she began to understand. This does not point to her speaking personally to the father.
As usual (and not necessarily wrong, btw), like most people you are only reading that portion/ chapter/ context.

Do realize that ALL Scripture is TRUE, right ? (this is prerequisite, not optional)
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Ask a Jew when he celebrates Pessakh …

We don't discuss when the resurrection happened, we discuss when the feast is celebrated. The latter date is a matter of decision. I showed to you that Easter is celebrated before the 14th Nisan in some years and after the 14th Nisan in others. So why should there be no year where Easter Sunday coincides with 14th Nisan?

You contradict yourself. What is "Easter" in Latin? Is it Pascha or not Pascha?
I told you an easy way to find out what Easter is in Latin: Go to Wikipedia, open the "Easter" page, and then change to the Latin page for that term (there is a Latin Wikipedia). Then you will know what Easter is in Latin. Same with other languages. Where, do you think, did I get the Indonesian term "paskah"from? :D

I never said anything to the contrary, and I have even confirmed it ... why do you repeat it?

I don't need to ask a Jew, but seems like you do. Pesakh is the 14th. Yeshua DIED on Pesakh, so by definition He could not have risen from the dead that day. You are speaking of using 2 different calendars. I am not contradicting myself, in Latin, it is Pascha...not easter.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Gregorian and Julian? or Jewish and Gentile?

The Jewish calendar...the Christian East uses the older Julian while the Christian West uses the RCC Gregorian. Regardless Pesakh is ONLY on the 14th...
 
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helmut

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As usual (and not necessarily wrong, btw), like most people you are only reading that portion/ chapter/ context.

Do realize that ALL Scripture is TRUE, right ? (this is prerequisite, not optional)
I believe all scripture is right, but I can't tell where you want to know that she "spoke personally with the father".

And since you don't say where I can find it, I doubt that you can say where this in Schripture ...
 
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