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What of those who have not heard the Gospel?

Discussion in 'Missions, Evangelism & Witnessing' started by Droobie, Jan 11, 2002.

  1. Droobie

    Droobie Rebmem Raluger

    +64
    Pentecostal
    Married
    AU-Liberals
    What would happen to those people, for example those who live in remote tribes of Africa or Asia, who have never head the Gospel? Do they go to heaven or hell? Is their salvation or ticket to heaven through their works?
     
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  2. Blackwing

    Blackwing Music Man With Black Wings(duh...)<img src="http:/

    +8
    Non-Denom
    I think Paul said that if you truly seek God, you will find Him.

    Also I think he said there is no excuse.

    Forgot what that verse is so im sorry :(

    Will look it up and give a clearer explanation.
     
  3. jon1101

    jon1101 Well-Known Member

    +5
    Christian
    'With no excuse for ignorence, because nature only proves his existence...'

    I've heard the baptism by desire theology but would have to say I disagree. God will not let those who genuinely seek after him go, however, as it is against his nature. Heaven and earth will be moved for the individual to hear the gospel.

    -A Tumor
     
  4. chuck

    chuck New Member

    67
    +1
    Would God allow a person to die without a change to receive His gift?

    What did Jesus tell the pharisees?

    34. They answered and said to him, "You were completely born in sins, and are you teaching us?'' And they cast him out.
    35. Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, "Do you believe in the Son of God?''
    36. He answered and said, "Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?''
    37. And Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you.''
    38. Then he said, "Lord, I believe!'' And he worshiped Him.
    39. And Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may be made blind.''
    40. Then some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard these words, and said to Him, "Are we blind also?''
    41. Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but now you say, `We see.' Therefore your sin remains.



    I have heard this story told to me as an example;

    In the early 1900's there was a man in a tribe in western Africa. As a young man he left his village to go on what he called a "vision quest". As he was on this "quest" to took notice at the trees around him and he knew they worshipped the tree god, as he continued he noticed the clouds and it was the cloud god that created the tree god, and even further in his walk he comtemplated how the sky god had created the cloud god, so in that aspect the sky god had to also create the tree god. As he continued in this he came to the finial thought that there has to be a God that created all these other "gods" and this is the God he chooses to worship. A short time later this man had a dream that one day a white bird would come and help him understand the choise he made that day. Five years later a missionary flew over his village and came and taught him the gospel. He in turn became a missonary to guess where----> the USA :)

    God Bless
    Chuck
     
  5. Apologist

    Apologist 2 Tim. 2:24-26

    +11
    Christian
    Good post Chuck.
    Romans says that we have the light of creation and if we respond to that light God will give us the light of conscience.
    If we respond to that light of conscience then God will give us the light of Christ. Remember that God said in Jeremiah 29:13: "And &#65279;you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me &#65279;&#65279;with all your heart."

    We have to remember that God is absolutely just and righteous and that He will judge rightly on the day of the Great White Throne Judgement. There are degrees of reward in heaven and there are degrees of punishment in hell. Just praise God that He doesn't give us what we really deserve!

    God Bless
     
  6. Craig_Thompson

    Craig_Thompson New Member

    17
    +0
    Romans 9:14-21 (NIV)
    14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!
    15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion
    16 It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.
    17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”
    18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
    19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?”
    20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”
    21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

    ----

    The wonder isn't that men go to Hell, the wonder is that any of us are saved.

    Maranatha,

    Craig :cool:
     
  7. imagineer

    imagineer Religious Dunce

    99
    +1
    This is another argument against religion. If we were born with free will to choose or not to choose 'god' then why werent we born with the choice within us? Why are we not born with a knowlage of 'god'?

    The USA is 6000 miles away from Israel. It is only a christian nation because the Pilgrims were fundimentalist christians, if the british hadnt persecuted them, the USA would have very little to do with christianity.
     
  8. Droobie

    Droobie Rebmem Raluger

    +64
    Pentecostal
    Married
    AU-Liberals
    Hi Imagineer,

    Welcome to Christian forums. Yes it most certainly is an argument against Christianity. But I don't understand your question. Why weren't we born with the knowledge of God? I would think that if you already knew there was a God, there would no longer be any point in belief or faith? Are you talking of a choice between believing or not believing in God? Well, that's what YOU have right now.

    My initial post was in reference to the commission that Christ gave to Christians, which was to go forth and spread news of the Gospel to all the ends of the Earth. What of those who have not been reached by missionaries, or have not had the opportunity to hear the Gospel?

    We believe that God wants everyone to have the opportunity to hear of Jesus. He does not force anyone to believe in Him. The choice as you said is one of free will. It is up to the individual whether or not they wish to accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour.

    As to the US being a fundamentally Christian nation? Well, bless those little pilgrims. Bless the British who persecuted them. Praise God for his perfect plan that has lead the now world's most powerful nation to come to know Christ!
     
  9. Gerry

    Gerry Jesus Paid It All

    +11
    Amen Droobie. It is a Blessing God has given us to carry out the great commission and for any others who are concerned, rest assured, not one of God's elect will be lost!
     
  10. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

    +1,463
    Seeker
    Married
    US-Republican
    If you're looking for arguments against religion, perhaps you should not be looking for them in the forums labeled "for Christians only". On the other hand, if you want to discuss this issue, feel free to bring it up in General Apologetics; I'd be glad to discuss the issue.
     
  11. Defender of the Faith 777

    Defender of the Faith 777 Well-Known Member

    +4
    United Ch. of Christ
    This is a preposterous question. Why does it get asked so much? If someone never hears of Jesus Christ, they cannot be blamed for denying Him.
     
  12. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

    +1,463
    Seeker
    Married
    US-Republican
    It gets asked because, if Christ is the only way to salvation, anyone who has not actively accepted him might be expected to be damned.

    I go a bit further than most; I suggest that, if you've heard things about Christ, and rejected the mental understanding you formed, that doesn't mean you rejected Christ.

    When I was younger, I rejected "Christianity", by which I meant a strange sort of cult of weirdos who seemed obsessed with other people's sex lives, and who talked a lot about love but didn't seem to do it. I have since realized that what I rejected was not Christianity, and Christ has, as is His normal way, welcomed me with open arms.
     
  13. Gerry

    Gerry Jesus Paid It All

    +11
    God would not be Just if He held people responsible for what they did not understand. It is when God sends the Holy Spirit into a life to draw them to Jesus and they hear the Gospel and UNDERSTAND it, that they become responsble for rejecting Christ. I don't think any thinking Christian who understands God's Word at all would disagree with that!

    God is ALWAYS Fair and Just!
     
  14. seebs

    seebs God Made Me A Skeptic

    +1,463
    Seeker
    Married
    US-Republican
    I tend to agree, but I have met people who seemed to otherwise be good and devout Christians, who feel that anyone who hasn't accepted Jesus is going to Hell, whether or not they've been told, whether or not they understood. I can't reconcile this with my beliefs about God's love and justice, but I can't prove them wrong, either. In the end, I just have faith that God will sort things out.
     
  15. Gerry

    Gerry Jesus Paid It All

    +11
    Ignorance is not a sin but to remain ignorant of God's WORD after becoming a Christian certainly is. We are tld repeated in the Bible that we are to STUDY and to RIGHTLY DIVIDE the Word of TRUTH.

    For anyone to call themselves a Christian and to suggest God will send anyone to hell who is incapable of understanding the Gospel, is inexcusable.

    These are the people who jump on the internet and begin a "teaching ministry" simply because they have purchased a Bible.

    Many of these people have fallen victim to heresy, while others are not even Christian at all but are the Apostates spoken of in Jude.

    It is sad that such people will not be quiet and listen to the Gentle voice of the Holy Spirit, who is there to guide them.

    In I John we are told that God is LOVE. We, as Christians, need to understand what love is and how it works before we can have any concept of who God is, and what He is all about.

    God does not consign people to hell for some cheap thrill and to suggest He does is blasphemous!
     
  16. Blessed-one

    Blessed-one a long journey ahead

    +171
    Protestant
    Single
    um, so for those who haven't heard of Jesus and when they die, they will not be condemned because of that?
    i've heard something like that somewhere ages ago, and i believe God won't be that cruel, but is there a scripture that support this view?
     
  17. Gerry

    Gerry Jesus Paid It All

    +11
    "What of those who have not heard the Gospel?"
    This is an ABSURD question and designed for one reason and one reason only. It is for the purpose of sparking a sensless never ending debate becaue no matter how many times it is answered, there will ALWAYS be a "BUT" And if seebs was ever right, this is one time he is. This is NOT the place for it and will only do harm here. Take it outside and discuss your heart out.

    Before you come back to jump me for calling the question absurd, I use that term because I serve a FAIR and a JUST God. That is what the BIBLE I have says He is, and it is what I BELIEVE.

    As for as I am concerned the fact that He is FAIR and JUST answers the question.
     
  18. Autumn

    Autumn Member

    190
    +0
    This question has come up a lot for me recently. We must have faith. I believe that God knows best. He knows His creation best. He will judge everyone accordingly. The main thing is that you love the Lord with all of your heart and you seek to do His will. However many people believe in different gods other than the one true God.

    I was watching the travel channel, and my soon to be sister in law commented about these tribes we were watching in Brazil. "What about them? I mean...they never hear the Good News. The children just believe the way they do because their parents teach them about these gods." What do you know she falls asleep and then the program shows that missionaries moved next to their tribe to tell them about God. Ofcourse the whole motivation of the program was to show that these missionaries were imposing and trying to change the innocent/simple lifestyle that these tribes live. Like they are animals that need to be preserved. Another thing that I found interesting about this tribe was that they believed they were created from the moon. The moon, their god and creator, they feared. If clouds covered the moon at night they would stay up all night pounding the earth with sticks because they thought the moon was angry with them and would kill their newborn babies.

    I think it is wonderful that the Good News is preached all over the world.
     
  19. coolhandluke

    coolhandluke *a princess*

    551
    +9
    Calvinist
    i believe that anyone that does not accept Christ goes to hell, this includes people that have never had the oppurtunity to hear the gospel. we do not go to hell for not accepting Christ, we go to hell for our sin and unrighteousness. Christ is merely our way to cleanse ourselves from that sin and unrighteousness. this is why we as christians should go out and preach the word in other countries. after all, if people that didn't hear the gospel went to heaven anyway, why would there be a need to preach the gospel. wouldn't it be better for people to live in ignorance and go to heaven, whether than live with the information, but not choose and go to hell?

    -katie
     
  20. Slave2SinNoMore

    Slave2SinNoMore Active Member

    477
    +15
    Christian
    I agree! See, there IS something! :clap:
     
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