What must I do to be saved?

[spiritfilledjm]

Calvarminian

 

[Butterball1]

Well that's why I called it a paradox. If that's the right word. Perhaps conundrum is more applicable. You don't believe in predestination at all, but you can't deny that God knows whether or not every single person who's born is going to accept Him or not. So one could say God lets people be born, even though He knows way ahead of time that they will end up in hell.

I see that it means that foreknowledge does not demand predetremination as Calvinism claims. That God can foreknow some event but does not mean that event must happen.

1 Sam 23:9-13
David and his men were held up in a city and David knew Saul was plotting against him, v9. David prayed to God asking if Saul would come to that city for him, and the Lord said "he will come down" vs 10-11. David then asked if the men of that city would deliver him to Saul, and the Lord said "They will deliver thee up", v12. So David as his men left that city and when Saul heard David left, Saul called off his expedition there. God foreknew what was to happen to David being in that city but it did not come to pass. What God foreknew was not predetermined to happen.

 

[Ceallaigh]

I see that it means that foreknowledge does not demand predetremination as Calvinism claims. That God can foreknow some event but does not mean that event must happen.

1 Sam 23:9-13
David and his men were held up in a city and David knew Saul was plotting against him, v9. David prayed to God asking if Saul would come to that city for him, and the Lord said "he will come down" vs 10-11. David then asked if the men of that city would deliver him to Saul, and the Lord said "They will deliver thee up", v12. So David as his men left that city and when Saul heard David left, Saul called off his expedition there. God foreknew what was to happen to David being in that city but it did not come to pass. What God foreknew was not predetermined to happen.

I definitely believe prayer for self and others changes the course of events.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This is a common but important question.

Acts 16:30-31 says "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved"

But I see many here adding their own conditions to earn salvation.

My question is do we have the right to add our own conditions, if we feel the Bible left out critical information.

Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is more than just believing in the person of Jesus Christ for salvation and the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, but it would be believing everything Jesus said, taught, and did, too. For Jesus said, why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord' if you do not what I say? (Luke 6:46). We also have to read verses like Matthew 7:26-27 that basically says that everyone who does not do what Jesus says is like a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house. John 12:48 says that we not only have to receive Jesus, but we also have to receive His words. For if we do not receive His words, those very words will judge us on the last day.

So you have to look at the whole counsel of God's Word and not in just those isolated verses you want to be true from your own perspective.

 

[Butterball1]

I definitely believe prayer for self and others changes the course of events.

Exodus 32:8-14

 

[spiritfilledjm]

I see that it means that foreknowledge does not demand predetremination as Calvinism claims. That God can foreknow some event but does not mean that event must happen.

If God has foreknowledge, but the events don't happen the exact way that God sees with His foreknowledge, then wouldn't that make Him wrong?

 

[Butterball1]

If God has foreknowledge, but the events don't happen the exact way that God sees with His foreknowledge, then wouldn't that make Him wrong?

No, there is a difference in what you're saying above and what I am saying.

If God has foreknowledge of "x" and "x" comes about then "x" will come about exactly as God foreknew it would.

I am talking about God foreknowing events but those events do not occur at all. The events of 1 Sam 23 that God foreknew did not happen. But "IF" David had stayed in that city, then those events God foreknew would have gone exactly as God foreknew they would have. "IF" Nineveh had not repented then it would have been destroyed in 40 days exactly as God foreknew it would. But since they repented, then God repented and what God foreknew did not come about. Though God foreknew what would happen to Nineveh in 40 days it was not "set in stone" to happen.

 

[Daniel of Sweden]

Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is more than just believing in the person of Jesus Christ for salvation and the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, but it would be believing everything Jesus said, taught, and did, too. For Jesus said, why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord' if you do not what I say? (Luke 6:46). We also have to read verses like Matthew 7:26-27 that basically says that everyone who does not do what Jesus says is like a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house. John 12:48 says that we not only have to receive Jesus, but we also have to receive His words. For if we do not receive His words, those very words will judge us on the last day.

So you have to look at the whole counsel of God's Word and not in just those isolated verses you want to be true from your own perspective.

I have a verse that specifically talks about what you need to do for salvation:

Amplified Bible John 6:40
For this is My Father’s will and purpose, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him [as Savior] will have eternal life, and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.”

This verse does not say, you have to know everything Jesus said and did, and do what he did.
These are things that you yourself added to it. It says Believe, not Know.

Stop taking away from the Glory of Jesus Sacrifice.
If there is anything we need to know, the Holy Spirit will tell us, because we believe in Jesus Christ.

edit:
Furthermore, Jesus expressly says not to search the Scriptures for him:

John 39-40
You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

The verse seemingly says not to search the verses, but to come to him, which I interpret as believe in him.

edit2:
And know that the Devil's main goal is to make people not believe fully in Jesus Christ Salvation, that instead they have to do something themselves, so beware.
That's all he can do because Jesus victory was complete, and he stands no chance to believers in Jesus Christ. But he can quote Scriptures to you, out of context, to mislead you.

edit3:
Do you think the Good Thief on the cross knew much about Christ? Yet Jesus told him that he would be with him in Paradise.

 

[GraceInChrist]

This is a common but important question.

Acts 16:30-31 says "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved"

But I see many here adding their own conditions to earn salvation.

My question is do we have the right to add our own conditions, if we feel the Bible left out critical information.

People only want a license to boast. We need to trust in Christ Jesus finish work of the cross. Frontloading lordship into the gospel denies grace and doubts the love of God to his enemies. Our works will always be full of iniquity. This why, by the law of the flesh no one will be justified but by the law of faith which is given freely to anyone who believes in the son of God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I have a verse that specifically talks about what you need to do for salvation:

Amplified Bible John 6:40
For this is My Father’s will and purpose, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him [as Savior] will have eternal life, and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.”

This verse does not say, you have to know everything Jesus said and did, and do what he did.
These are things that you yourself added to it. It says Believe, not Know.

Stop taking away from the Glory of Jesus Sacrifice.
If there is anything we need to know, the Holy Spirit will tell us, because we believe in Jesus Christ.

edit:
Furthermore, Jesus expressly says not to search the Scriptures for him:

John 39-40
You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

The verse seemingly says not to search the verses, but to come to him, which I interpret as believe in him.

edit2:
And know that the Devil's main goal is to make people not believe fully in Jesus Christ Salvation, that instead they have to do something themselves, so beware.
That's all he can do because Jesus victory was complete, and he stands no chance to believers in Jesus Christ. But he can quote Scriptures to you, out of context, to mislead you.

edit3:
Do you think the Good Thief on the cross knew much about Christ? Yet Jesus told him that he would be with him in Paradise.

Jesus also said in the same chapter,

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.” (John 6:53).

“As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.” (John 6:57).

“Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.” (John 4:34).

Jesus said, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21).

What is the Father's will or God's will?

“For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:” (1 Thessalonians 4:3).

“And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:26-27).

 

[GraceInChrist]

Jesus also said in the same chapter,

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.” (John 6:53).

“As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.” (John 6:57).

“Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.” (John 4:34).

Jesus said, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21).

What is the Father's will or God's will?

“For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:” (1 Thessalonians 4:3).

“And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:26-27).

John 6
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

For our sanctifiction we should follow the commandments, for salvation is to believe.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

John 6
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

For our sanctifiction we should follow the commandments, for salvation is to believe.

John 6:37-40 says,

37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."​

First, what does Jesus mean by,

“All that the Father giveth me come to me?”​

Well, we have to understand that the Father elects those based on His future foreknowledge of our free will choice concerning Him (1 Peter 1:2) (Deuteronomy 30:19). Also, we also have to understand that not everyone is going to be saved; However, it is God's will that all people should be saved, though (1 Timothy 2:4) (2 Peter 3:9) (Revelation 22:17). This is why we read in Scripture about how many are called, but few are chosen (Matthew 20:16).

Same meanings since all are given the chance to have life through Jesus. But those who are His have come so willingly in faith, repenting and turning with a sincere heart; forever to the submission of God’s commandments and desires.

Verse 39 implies that it is possible for Jesus to lose some of the flock. If it were not so, He would have said so. But if what you say is true, then Jesus would have said,

"I WILL lose nothing."​

However, that is not what Jesus said. Jesus says,

"I SHOULD lose nothing."​

John 6:39 (KJV) says,

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

Second, eternal life here is not a guarantee. Jesus says in verse 40

"MAY have everlasting life".​

John 6:40
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

In other words, Jesus should lose none and all who are His should be raised, because they should all continue in the righteousness God gave them through the sacrifice of Jesus. It’s not that Jesus isn’t capable of keeping up with His sheep; it’s that He never keeps His sheep against their wills. How so?

Well, we see in Scripture that the Father gave all of the disciples to Jesus; However, Jesus kept them all except Judas, though.

John 17:12 says:

"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."​

Now, allow me to rephrase this in modern-terminology:

While I was with the marbles in the world, I kept them. Those marbles that you gave me I kept, and none are lost, but the green marble.​

And OSAS terminology:

While I was with the marbles in the world, I kept them. Those marbles that you gave me I kept, and none are lost, except for the green marble that you never gave me.​

Do you see now how OSAS doesn't make any sense?


Old Source Link Used:
http://conditionalsalvation.com/

 

[GraceInChrist]

John 6:37-40 says,

37 "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."​

First, what does Jesus mean by,

“All that the Father giveth me come to me?”​

Well, we have to understand that the Father elects those based on His future foreknowledge of our free will choice concerning Him (1 Peter 1:2) (Deuteronomy 30:19). Also, we also have to understand that not everyone is going to be saved; However, it is God's will that all people should be saved, though (1 Timothy 2:4) (2 Peter 3:9) (Revelation 22:17). This is why we read in Scripture about how many are called, but few are chosen (Matthew 20:16).

Same meanings since all are given the chance to have life through Jesus. But those who are His have come so willingly in faith, repenting and turning with a sincere heart; forever to the submission of God’s commandments and desires.

Verse 39 implies that it is possible for Jesus to lose some of the flock. If it were not so, He would have said so. But if what you say is true, then Jesus would have said,

"I WILL lose nothing."​

However, that is not what Jesus said. Jesus says,

"I SHOULD lose nothing."​

John 6:39 (KJV) says,

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

Second, eternal life here is not a guarantee. Jesus says in verse 40

"MAY have everlasting life".​

John 6:40
"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

In other words, Jesus should lose none and all who are His should be raised, because they should all continue in the righteousness God gave them through the sacrifice of Jesus. It’s not that Jesus isn’t capable of keeping up with His sheep; it’s that He never keeps His sheep against their wills. How so?

Well, we see in Scripture that the Father gave all of the disciples to Jesus; However, Jesus kept them all except Judas, though.

John 17:12 says:

"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."​

Now, allow me to rephrase this in modern-terminology:

While I was with the marbles in the world, I kept them. Those marbles that you gave me I kept, and none are lost, but the green marble.​

And OSAS terminology:

While I was with the marbles in the world, I kept them. Those marbles that you gave me I kept, and none are lost, except for the green marble that you never gave me.​

Do you see now how OSAS doesn't make any sense?


Old Source Link Used:
http://conditionalsalvation.com/

John 6:70
“Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

Devils cant be save, this is why the people with the mark of the beast and giants, those who are from the seed of the serpent will be cast to the lake of fire.

John 6:47
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”

This one clearly says it. It is weird none the less, in the translation of my language it says "going to" instead of "should".

 

[Bible Highlighter]

John 6:70
“Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?”

Devils cant be save, this is why the people with the mark of the beast and giants, those who are from the seed of the serpent will be cast to the lake of fire.

John 6:47
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.”

This one clearly says it. It is weird none the less, in the translation of my language it says "going to" instead of "should".

Jesus Christ called his disciple Judas as one of his sheep.

“These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying .... go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. ...Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves...” (Matthew 10:16)

This was said to the twelve disciples and Judas is a part of the 12. Judas was sent as sheep. This lets us know that Judas was once saved at one point in time.

“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life” (John 10:27-28).

 

[GraceInChrist]

Jesus Christ called his disciple Judas as one of his sheep.

“These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying .... go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. ...Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves...” (Matthew 10:16)

This was said to the twelve disciples and Judas is a part of the 12. Judas was sent as sheep. This lets us know that Judas was once saved at one point in time.

“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life” (John 10:27-28).

Wasnt the father of Judas Satan being the son of perdition. Or do you believe as Sons of Gods and redeem with his blood we could be call sons of perditions. Was Judas a human or a devil.

 

[GraceInChrist]

Jesus Christ called his disciple Judas as one of his sheep.

“These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying .... go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. ...Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves...” (Matthew 10:16)

This was said to the twelve disciples and Judas is a part of the 12. Judas was sent as sheep. This lets us know that Judas was once saved at one point in time.

“My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life” (John 10:27-28).

2 Thessalonians 2:3

King James Version

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The antichrist is also a son of perdition. Sounds like there are more than one. The giants werent humans. So they are sons of perdition too.

"I send you forth as sheep" It says as, not that all are.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

2 Thessalonians 2:3

King James Version

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The antichrist is also a son of perdition. Sounds like there are more than one.

Keep reading. 2 Thessalonians 2:12-13 says,

[12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. [13] But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

God having chosen us to sanctification of the Spirit is a call of the gospel according to verse 14. Verse 12 says that there are those who are damned who had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[GraceInChrist]

Keep reading. 2 Thessalonians 2:12-13 says,

[12] That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. [13] But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

God having chosen us to sanctification of the Spirit is a call of the gospel according to verse 14. Verse 12 says that there are those who are damned who had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Lordshipper have pleasure in their unrighteousness calling themselves good they reject the truth of the gospel. We all go through sancfication. Some will be scolded, not everyone will be obedient.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Lordshipper have pleasure in their unrighteousness calling themselves good they reject the truth of the gospel. We all go through sancfication. Some will be scolded, not everyone will be obedient.

You say not everyone will be obedient.

Hebrews 5:9 says,
“And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;”

The gospel call is that God has chosen us to sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).

God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (See: Titus 2:11-12).

 

[GraceInChrist]

You say not everyone will be obedient.

Hebrews 5:9 says,
“And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;”

The gospel call is that God has chosen us to sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).

God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (See: Titus 2:11-12).

Not by repentance of dead works. Read hebrews chapter 6:1. But by being conform in his image. Disobeying grace is what that people were doing crucifying him back with holocaust.
Romans 4:14

King James Version

14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: