What must I do to be saved

[Dan1988]

There are many different views on who is saved and how a person is saved.

There are thousands of Christian denominations, most have their own formula for salvation.

I grew up in a Roam Catholic Church, where we were taught that we would be saved if we kept all of the sacraments.

All the religions of the world teach that you must do as many good works as you can, then God will let you into heaven for putting in such a good effort.

Christianity is the only one that teaches that we are saved by Gods grace, through faith in the finished work of Jesus on the cross.

Most christian Churches teach that, Christ didn't finish the work of salvation so we need to add our good works to complete the job.

The Bible tells us that God chose to save His elect before He laid the foundations of the world.

Many Christians believe they are saved by their choice to believe, they have a problem with the scriptures that speak of Gods elect and those predestined to be saved.

Gods sovereignty over all things has been a controversial subject. It has caused a division of the Church, into two camps. Those who believe in free choice (Arminian) and those who believe that God chooses them (Calvinists).

There are many scriptures which speak about God's elect and predestination, yet so many Christians refuse to accept what the Bible says because it sounds unfair.

Jesus said, He would save as many as believe in Him. It's simple but over 90% of the world find it impossible to believe, because it sounds so foolish.

So if we are to believe Jesus, then all we need to do is believe. But that's not the belief that he existed, it's the belief that causes you to follow and act on every single thing He taught and commanded.

Below is a summary of the two main views in Christian
Churches.
https://carm.org/does-regeneration-precede-faith

 

[Sam91]

Jesus said John 3:1-10

Paul said:

Acts 16:30-31He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household

Romans 10:9-10
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

 

[Tolworth John]

Most christian Churches teach that, Christ didn't finish the work of salvation so we need to add our good works to complete the job.

Which churches please?

 

[Sam91]

Infact, the whole of John 3 is relevant.

 

[JoeP222w]

By repentance and faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[JoeP222w]

Which churches please?

Not any Christian church that is for sure. Any church that teaches you must do good works in order to be saved are in disagreement with the word of God. [Ephesians 2:8-10]

 

[Dan1988]

Which churches please?

All the Churches which believe that teach that you must do something to be saved. That's 90% such as the Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican and every other Church which doesn't preach that we are chosen by God for salvation and it's not anything we do or can do.

Most Churches teach that it's ultimately your choice to decide if believe or reject the Gospel. I believe the Bible teaches that God has decided who He will save before He laid the foundations of the world down.

I believe the Bible teaches that, we don't have a choice and that God draws those whom He has decided to save to Himself. We call it irresistible grace, the majority of Christian Churches dismiss this and teach that it's comes down to the individuals choice.

 

[Sam91]

All the Churches which believe that teach that you must do something to be saved. That's 90% such as the Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican and every other Church which doesn't preach that we are chosen by God for salvation and it's not anything we do or can do.

Most Churches teach that it's ultimately your choice to decide if believe or reject the Gospel. I believe the Bible teaches that God has decided who He will save before He laid the foundations of the world down.

I believe the Bible teaches that, we don't have a choice and that God draws those whom He has decided to save to Himself. We call it irresistible grace, the majority of Christian Churches dismiss this and teach that it's comes down to the individuals choice.

Rightly so, not being in Heaven they have no way of knowing whether the person is one of those elect. Jesus gives us that choice too. It is throughout the Gospels as so, maybe more so than the times that He says that we are given what we are given from above.

Even the elect need to believe with their heart and confess that Jesus is Lord.

Jesus commands use to love our neighbour. The Bible says that if we love Him we will obey Him. There are commands to follow. It isn't works that save but without these works coming out from our faith how can we profess to be in Christ?

I do not know anything about the people who wrote what is in this link. I just searched for a list of Jesus' instrutions and they have compiled a list of verses already.
https://iblp.org/questions/what-are-commands-christ

 

[Dan1988]

Rightly so, not being in Heaven they have no way of knowing whether the person is one of those elect. Jesus gives us that choice too. It is throughout the Gospels as so, maybe more so than the times that He says that we are given what we are given from above.

Even the elect need to believe with their heart and confess that Jesus is Lord.

Jesus commands use to love our neighbour. The Bible says that if we love Him we will obey Him. There are commands to follow. It isn't works that save but without these works coming out from our faith how can we profess to be in Christ?

I was trying to say that most Churches teach salvation by works of one kind or another.

The Bible says that we are saved by grace and that not of ourselves, lest any man should boast.

Human nature is such that we all want something to boast about, but Jesus has done everything necessary for our salvation and He left us with nothing to boast about.

The Catholic Church has made countless billions of dollars selling indulgences and absolution and the forgiveness of sins. If they believed in Jesus they would realize that He already paid for all those things and all they need to do is believe in Him

 

[Sam91]

I was trying to say that most Churches teach salvation by works of one kind or another.

The Bible says that we are saved by grace and that not of ourselves, lest any man should boast.

Human nature is such that we all want something to boast about, but Jesus has done everything necessary for our salvation and He left us with nothing to boast about.

The Catholic Church has made countless billions of dollars selling indulgences and absolution and the forgiveness of sins. If they believed in Jesus they would realize that He already paid for all those things and all they need to do is believe in Him

I'll leave my views on the catholic church off here. I'll just say I disagree with their theology on multiple levels.

But I have yet to hear a different church preach anything contrary to us being saved by grace. I have been to multiple denominations. I'm not a Calvinist though. I can't reconcile thatvto the Bible either. If Calvinism was true there would be no need for the warnings in the Bible. I think that is what happens when people expand and expand verses to make a doctrine. To me they end up sounding like a different gospel to one that I was originally given.

Christ in bible says differently as far as I can tell. If they used the same words as the Bible without interpreting it maybe I could understand what they are really saying.

Each point I can understand. I can see how each verse could be saying it but when it is put together it just doesn't fit. It isn't what the Bible says.

 

[Dan1988]

I'll leave my views on the catholic church off here. I'll just say I disagree with their theology on multiple levels.

But I have yet to hear a different church preach anything contrary to us being saved by grace. I have been to multiple denominations. I'm not a Calvinist though. I can't reconcile thatvto the Bible either. If Calvinism was true there would be no need for the warnings in the Bible. I think that is what happens when people expand and expand verses to make a doctrine. To me they end up sounding like a different gospel to one that I was originally given.

Christ in bible says differently as far as I can tell. If they used the same words as the Bible without interpreting it maybe I could understand what they are really saying.

Each point I can understand. I can see how each verse could be saying it but when it is put together it just doesn't fit. It isn't what the Bible says.

Of' course every Church preaches saved by grace, but not grace alone. They add that you must do something else to receive salvation.

Some say you must believe, so they have faith in their faith instead of God. Some say you need to repent first, so they trust in their repentance.

Calvin didn't teach that the elect didn't need to heed the warnings in scripture, he simply believed what the Bible says as it is written. When God said He chose the elect before He laid down the foundations of the world, he took Him at His word while everyone else added all kinds of works and requirements to salvation.

I stick with the Bible, so I have to dismiss those who add or take away from Gods Word. Most people hate the fact that only Gods elect can believe and understand the true meaning of the Holy Scriptures.

The rest of humanity cannot receive the truth of the Gospel because it is spiritually discerned, and only those who have the Holy Spirit indwelling them can truly understand and receive it. This is why so many folks have a problem with Calvin.

 

[Sam91]

The rest of humanity cannot receive the truth of the Gospel because it is spiritually discerned, and only those who have the Holy Spirit indwelling them can truly understand and receive it. This is why so many folks have a problem with Calvin.

Are you saying that I do not agree with Calvin because I'm not one of the elect... or just other people? I hope that isn't what you are meaning and that I have misunderstood.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I believe the Bible teaches that, we don't have a choice and that God draws those whom He has decided to save to Himself.

Speaking as a Calvinist, having seen several dozen debates on the subject, I think clarification is needed on the matter. Predestination doesn't mean we have no choice. It simply means that our choice does not extend beyond God's sovereign election.

We get into that Arminian robotic straw man argument often enough when we argue against free will, as if we did not freely make our own choices. We do actually have a choice, but there's a superseding power that we do not see, which cannot be overcome, which masters our destiny. We freely make our choices, but our choices are not free from God's sovereignty.

To simply say that we have no choice gives a different impression from what is actually Calvinistic doctrine.

 

[Dan1988]

Are you saying that I do not agree with Calvin because I'm not one of the elect... or just other people? I hope that isn't what you are meaning and that I have misunderstood.

I'm saying most Christians have a problem with Calvin because he believes that the Bible says that only the elect of God can truly understand the true meaning of the scriptures.

Most Christians believe that everyone can understand the Bible and it comes down to personal choice if they choose to believe it or reject it. Calvin believes that all the elect believe without exception and they are all guaranteed salvation.

Most Christian Churches teach that you make the choice to accept Christ and then He saves you. Calvin said God chooses the person and not the other way around.

 

[Sam91]

I'm saying most Christians have a problem with Calvin because he believes that the Bible says that only the elect of God can truly understand the true meaning of the scriptures.

Most Christians believe that everyone can understand the Bible and it comes down to personal choice if they choose to believe it or reject it. Calvin believes that all the elect believe without exception and they are all guaranteed salvation.

Most Christian Churches teach that you make the choice to accept Christ and then He saves you. Calvin said God chooses the person and not the other way around.

I think this is where the Proverbs 3:5-6 instinct kicks it. Have sat here pondering for at least a few minutes what to write. Bible verse after bible verse going through my mind on each idea. I give up. I can only go by what Jesus says on the matter, the apostles too.

I will be interested to continue reading your thread.

 

[Dan1988]

Speaking as a Calvinist, having seen several dozen debates on the subject, I think clarification is needed on the matter. Predestination doesn't mean we have no choice. It simply means that our choice does not extend beyond God's sovereign election.

We get into that Arminian robotic straw man argument often enough when we argue against free will, as if we did not freely make our own choices. We do actually have a choice, but there's a superseding power that we do not see, which cannot be overcome, which masters our destiny. We freely make our choices, but our choices are not free from God's sovereignty.

To simply say that we have no choice gives a different impression from what is actually Calvinistic doctrine.

That makes good sense, I was cutting to the chase and trying to put it all in a nut shell.

Even those who are predestined for salvation, still need to run the race to the end and battle against the flesh to their dying day. Jesus said, those who endure to the end shall be saved. So it's not a matter of saying, I'm saved so I can sit back and relax.

We still have to believe, repent and take up our cross and follow Christ. We must suffer persecution, we must lose our life to gain it. Too many people believe in Christ as long as they are receiving blessings and prosperity, but as soon as the persecution comes they abandon Him.

The Gospel is quite offensive to the natural man, it says that man is wicked and dead in his sins and trespasses. It demands that the person gives up all their worldly pleasures and follows Christ and suffer persecution for doing so.

 

[Dan1988]

I think this is where the Proverbs 3:5-6 instinct kicks it. Have sat here pondering for at least a few minutes what to write. Bible verse after bible verse going through my mind on each idea. I give up. I can only go by what Jesus says on the matter, the apostles too.

I will be interested to continue reading your thread.

I spoke to our pastor about this issue, he said it's not a deal breaker if a person doesn't get the concept correctly. He reminded me that Jesus said, as many as believe in Me shall be saved.

The thief on the cross didn't have time to study the Bible or get his theology in order while he was hanging on the cross. All he did was believe in Christ and he was saved.

God is not impressed with how learned we are and how well we know the Scriptures. He's no respecter of persons, all he requires is that we believe in Christ and then the Holy Spirit will finish the work of salvation.

Too many people want to complicate the Gospel message, it's a simple message but it's foolishness to those who are perishing. So I have to come back to the old truth that only Gods elect will truly embrace the Gospel and obey it.

 

[Doulos 7]

Matthew 28:19,20; Mark 16:15,16; John 3:3,5,7; Acts 2:38,41,8:12,36-38,9:18,10:47,48,16:15,33,19:5,22:16; Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:11,12; 1 Peter 3:21 etc.
* James 2:24 *

 

[Dan1988]

Matthew 28:19,20; Mark 16:15,16; John 3:3,5,7; Acts 2:38,41,8:12,36-38,9:18,10:47,48,16:15,33,19:5,22:16; Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:11,12; 1 Peter 3:21 etc.
* James 2:24 *

Thank you for taking the time to list those scriptures, but I couldn't see how they relate to our topic of discussion

 

[Tolworth John]

All the Churches which believe that teach that you must do something to be saved. That's 90% such as the Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican and every other Church which doesn't preach that we are chosen by God for salvation and it's not anything we do or can do.

Most Churches teach that it's ultimately your choice to decide if believe or reject the Gospel. I believe the Bible teaches that God has decided who He will save before He laid the foundations of the world down.

I believe the Bible teaches that, we don't have a choice and that God draws those whom He has decided to save to Himself. We call it irresistible grace, the majority of Christian Churches dismiss this and teach that it's comes down to the individuals choice.

Vague generalisations of any group is not a good idea if one is being critical of what they are alledged to believe.