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What Must I Do to be Saved?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by edpobre, Aug 1, 2001.

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  1. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +1
    Friends,

    What must I do to be saved?

    Do you believe that only children of God are heirs and joint-heirs with Christ to the promises of God to Abraham? God's promise to Abraham and his seed is the holy city, the new Jerusalem. That means salvation and eternal life.

    Apostle Paul wrote in Romans 8:16-17 that God's children are heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ. In Gal. 3:29, apostle Paul identified the children of God as belonging to Christ (Christ's) and Abraham's seed and heirs according to the prommise. In Gal. 4:7, apostle Paul emphasized that a son is an heir of God through Christ.

    But how can a one become a son of God in order to become heir to God's promise of salvation? Jesus says, one must be born again. But how is one born again?

    First, one must acquire the right to become a child of God. This can only be done by receiving Jesus (John 1:12).

    Second, one must be redeemed by the blood of Jesus in order to receive adoption as child of God (Gal. 4:4-5).

    Ed
     
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  2. Iddie4Him

    Iddie4Him Guest

    +0
    I have always been taught that in order for one to be saved, You must accept Christ as your Lord and Saviour < and fully understanding what that means > and How can we be redeemed and saved by the blood of Christ ? I was always instructed that when Jesus died on the cross for us that he took upon himself thru Gods wishes, the awesome act of ultimate sacrifice and unconditional love, And by the shedding of his own blood that we are redeemed by this alone. If I am mistaken in some way, Could someone let me know ? I sincerely hope I'm not.
     
  3. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +1
    Iddie4him,

    You wrote:


    There is no Biblical basis for this. The two verses most often used to support this are John 1:12 and 1 John 5:12. Protestants believe that receiving Jesus makes one a child of God. Thus, by accepting Jesus as Lord and savior, one receives Jesus, becomes a child of God, has the son and will therefore be saved.

    The method of accepting Jesus as Lord and savior prescribed by Protestant churches is to pray the "sinners' prayer" where one acknowledges his need for salvation because of his sins, accepts Jesus as Lord and savior and invites Jesus to come into one's heart.

    Again, this method of receiving Jesus and having the son is not supported by the Bible.

    You wrote:


    I'm afraid you were taught a false doctrine my friend. While it is true that Christ died for all sinners, the Bible also says that he gave his life for the church, his body (Eph. 5:25). He purchased the church with his own blood (Acts 20:2:cool: . And Christ is the savior of the church, his body (Eph. 5:23)

    Apostle Paul called members of the church that Christ died for, churches of Christ (Rom. 16:16).

    Thus, only those who become members of the true Church of Christ in these last days are redeemed by the blood of Christ. These are the people whose sins are forgiven and reconciled to God.

    Those outside the true Church of Christ have not been redeemed by the blood of Christ and thus remain sinners and enemies of God.

    The invitation for people to become members of the true Church of Christ is open to everyone regardless of race, nationality or gender.

    Ed
     
  4. Iddie4Him

    Iddie4Him Guest

    +0
    Edpobre,
    The true church of christ is the BODY of christ. Anyone who believes that they are saved either by confessing the sinners prayer or by accepting christ will be in the fold taken up at the time of the tribulation. We will all then rejoice with christ forever.
     
  5. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +1
    Iddie4him,

    You wrote:


    As I said earlier, this belief is false because it does not have any Biblical leg to stand on.

    The Church of Christ in the first century was a visible organization with a central administration located in Jerusalem. It's presiding officer at that time was Apostle James (Acts 15:6-13).

    It was not composed of different denominations with different beliefs and practices. It did not teach the Trinity or a triune God. On the contrary, the first-century church was one body with one spirit, one faith, one hope, one baptism, one God, the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ (Eph. 4:4-6). For them, there is only one God, the Father and only one Lord, Jesus Christ (1 Cor. 8:6).

    Apostle Paul called members churches of Christ (Rom. 16:16), not by any other name.

    To become a member of the first-century Church of Christ, you had to listen to a true messenger sent by God (Acts 2:38-40), gladly receive his word (Acts 2:41), repent (Acts 2:3:cool: and be converted (Acts 3:19) and be baptized(Acts 2:41) and be added to the church (Acts 2:47).

    The Bible says that without the shedding of blood, there can be no remission (Heb. 9:22). The only way for sins to be forgiven (Col. 1:13-14) and be reconciled to God is INSIDE the one body of Christ through the cross (Eph. 2:16).

    1 John 1:9 applies only to sins committed by people while INSIDE the body or church of Christ. Outside the Church of Christ, God judges (1 Cor. 5:13).

    Ed
     
  6. savinggrc

    savinggrc Guest

    +0
    You know Ed, I've already answered this before - straight from the Bible - but since you apparently didn't get it, I will do so again. :)

    The Question:
    Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

    The Answer:
    Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

    Not too tough. The rest of the stuff you've been posting, Ed, is another gospel. Have I shared with you what Paul said about those who preach another gospel? No? Here - just for you then:

    Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

    Galatians 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

    Paul says to let him be accursed. Not let him spew his venom and his chains that bind hearts to man's doctrines. Let him be accursed. Not let him lead others off the path of righteousness. Let him be accursed. Not let him teach a lie for the truth. Let him be accursed.

    It's really very sad Ed. Very sad.
    Karen
     
  7. ZoneChaos

    ZoneChaos Senior Veteran

    +21
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    Married
    US-Republican


    And, the church (as I see it) still is a visible Organization... Hoiwever. while James may have been in a position of leadership, that position was one of a servant. God is the "Officer" if the church. Anyone claiming they are in control of the "Chruch of Christ" may want to check his heart and make sure he is approaching it as a servant unto man, and not an overseer of them.



    The concept Trinity taught, which is reflected in the scriptures.

    [quoter]one God, the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ[/quote]

    The doctrine of the Trinity does not dispute this. The Doctrine of the Trinty also states there is one God.



    Do I see a plural "churches" there? Hmmm... Since there is one one Church of Chrtist (being the Body), then Paul must have vbeen referring to physical locations of beleivers, which he was noting as chruches who beleived Jesus Christ, as oppoesed to churches that served false gods.



    Stop the boat.. I want off!

    So, here, are you saying you believe that sin, within the Body of Christ, is condoned, accepted, and expected? That if we purposely and knowingly commit sin, as a Christian, it is ok? Be careful... if you beleive this, I would double check your fellowship with God. I will know you by your fruits. If this is an example of your fruits.. then I don't know you as a brother in Christ.

    Here John is writing for the lost, those who are not saved, that if we (human beings in General) confess our sins, we will be forgiven of them. That verse is for all those who are not a member of the Church.
     
  8. savinggrc

    savinggrc Guest

    +0
    About sin in the body...

    1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

    1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him

    John the Beloved tells us that if we abide in Him, we don't sin and if do sin, we don't know Him. How does that jive with all the other stuff Ed's been saying? :/

    Karen
     
  9. E-beth

    E-beth Senior Contributor

    +683
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    OK Now I got a question...

    1 John 3:6 (Sorry, I dunno how to do quotes :) ) as stated here, makes it sound like Christians can't sin. At least, it seems that way to me. I understand that Christians are not perfect, just forgiven. But if I abide in Him, I can't sin. So if I do sin, does that mean I am not in Him anymore?

    Just confused a little... Help!
     
  10. ZoneChaos

    ZoneChaos Senior Veteran

    +21
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    I am a Christian and At times I do sin. However. I do not keep the frame of mind that I can sin, and it won't matter becasue I am a Christian.

    As a Christian, my walk is very important, becasue it shows others Jesus Chrost, through me. If I commit a sin, then I am not living the Christian life, and poeple get a bad understanding of wehat Christian is.

    Nonone is perfect, and as Christians, sin is still a problem, but with God's help, is easier to overcome.

    Just make sure you do not justify your sin, by convincing yourself that Jesus will save if from it.

    When you get to the point that you view Christianity as a free ticket to sin whenever you want, I would begin to question your salvation.

    But, God understands our weakness, and in that weakness, He will forgive you of that sin.
     
  11. savinggrc

    savinggrc Guest

    +0
    Actually, imo, the teaching is that Christians won't abide in sin. If someone names the name of Christ, yet abides in sin, then they aren't saved. I was just yanking on Ed's chain ;) ...sorry for the confusion. :)

    Karen
     
  12. E-beth

    E-beth Senior Contributor

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    I tend to agree with Zone. I feel like Christians will sin, since we are still human, but we are forgiven when we seek it. And it shouldn't be a license to do whatever you want to.

    The reason I am asking is because a friend of mine has fallen into some stuff. He knows it is wrong but says he will "play it out" to see what happens. He is also a Christian...

    As for me personally, not so long ago I was "seeped in sin" I did stuff I knew was wrong but frankly, did not feel remorse. I knew God was calling me out of what I was doing, but ignored His voice. I had a ton of excuses and even tho I tried to hide from God, He still knew where I was. The spirit came, I found my contrite heart, and then the blessings started flowing. ( ;) @ iddie4him)

    savinggrc do you mean that you believe that a Christian loses his or her salvation every time they sin? Just wondering :)
     
  13. ZoneChaos

    ZoneChaos Senior Veteran

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    This is the key E Beth. Conviction of the Holy Spirit.

    Many people know who Jesus is, know what Jesus did, even know why He did it. They walk the walk, and talk the talk. They carry out every action of being "saved" but, they don't trust in their faith and fellowship with God.

    Satan knows who Jesus is. Satan knows why Jesus Died. Satan knows everything a Christian knows about being saved. This doe snot save Him. Only having faith in what they know, and fellowship with God. Will lead them to Salvation.

    I recently sent this to a friend of mine in an e-mail regarding what faith is:

    -------

    To me it seems alot of people do not understand what Faith is. They confuse Faith with Hope, or Belief. It is neither.

    Take playing the Lottery for example. I have heard many times that Christianity is like this. You can hope to win the lottery (their definition of "Faith"), and after knowing the odds, you can believe you will, but this is not what Faith is about.

    Having Faith is more, than beleiving.. Having faith is confirmation of a belief. Sure you can beleive that God will save you, but if you have faith in that beleif, is confirms that belief. As it is written: "Faith is the evidence of things not seen". To put that another way: Having Faith in a beleif is the proof that the beleif is genuine. Faith, is not just a state
    of mind, which most people thnk it is. Faith is a connection and fellowship with God. Fiath comes from beleiving in God, and then knowing that Belief is true, thorugh the relationsship you have with God.

    -------
     
  14. E-beth

    E-beth Senior Contributor

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    Faith is a beautiful part of a relationship with God. I never really had a problem with faith, because I was saved as a child. Children understand faith in a way adults have difficulty with. Faith can defy reason. Sometimes "Because He says so" is a good enough reason. Science and the need for concrete evidence of salvation are grown-up ways of turning from the call of God.
     
  15. AtheistArchon

    AtheistArchon Guest

    +0


    - Ah yes. :) Children will believe anything.



    - Correct! Are you trying to say that theism is not reasonable? I agree with you.



    - Really. I am God, and I created the universe five minutes ago with everyone's memories in-tact. Believe me? Why not.. I am saying so, and I'm God.

    - Even with that point aside, how do you know what "He" says? Are you referring to the bible?



    - Saaaad.

    - You would suffer us all to be eternally immature and gullible. Let us hope you never have to purchase a used car on your own... the salesman would EAT you alive. After all... God isn't going to tell you a car is a lemon, and you don't believe in science because it's "turning from the call of God".

    - Let me ask you this: if you don't use science to get reliable information about your surroundings, what DO you use? Can you demonstrate this method? What do I have in my pockets right now?
     
  16. E-beth

    E-beth Senior Contributor

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    Spoken like a true grown up... :)

    Actually, child-like faith is a good thing. It cuts through all the stuff that clouds the vision of God. Reasonable? I would not dare to make it in this UNREASONABLE world without the help of God. Knowing I will make it through another day is FAITH. Science cannot give me one minute of peace.

    Yes, I believe what is in the Bible. So sue me.

    And as for "children will believe anything" ...YOU BET! They believe that the sun will rise tomorrow, that whatever was wrong yesterday will be better today, and anybody is ok to play with. My preschoolers don't have to be told that God is good. They see it when it stops raining at playground time.

    The thing about it is, I don't believe ANYBODY about ANYTHING. I am a holy terror at a used car lot cause I feel every word said to me is a lie. That is because people have lied to me before. God never has.


     
  17. AtheistArchon

    AtheistArchon Guest

    +0


    - I see... and God speaks to you verbally? Unless He does, you're still taking people's word for what God "says", whether it's the collection of myths in the bible, a pastor, a preacher, etc. A true skeptic doesn't believe everything they read...

    - Also, I believe science gives you a LOT of peace. You don't have to worry about TB, getting rained on, being cold in the wintertime. You can learn when bad weather is coming and take appropriate action. You can eat fresh food and store it. You can have a sanitary house. You can travel rapidly to work and back. I could go on and on. Perhaps you mean the warm fuzzy feelings kids get with their imagnary friends? ;)



    - Like science?



    - They also believe in ghosts, monsters under their beds, and imaginary friends. There's a reason children don't manage large companies or hold public office... they lack the experience to be skeptics.

    - Children will believe whatever they're told, no matter if it's true or not. This isn't a good way to go through life... that's why we grow up. Faith in comic book heroes and Santa Claus must give way to reason.
     
  18. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

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    "A true skeptic doesn't believe everything they read..."

    Hmm..I agree..but there aren't any "true" skeptics left..and if there are then they wouldn't be here because they don't try to "prove" or "talk" to anyone about anything since they think it is all subjective right?

    "- They also believe in ghosts, monsters under their beds, and imaginary friends. There's a reason children don't manage large companies or hold public office... they lack the experience to be skeptics. "

    so assuming the worst is a good thing? A pessimistic society doesn't sound so good to me. I agree we should be weary of things but there is a fine line between weary and pessimistic skepitism.


     
  19. AtheistArchon

    AtheistArchon Guest

    +0


    - Actually you're right, pessimism isn't the answer IMHO. However, I never said it was. I can tell you though that I'd rather be pessimistic and assume the worst than make up pretty things which might not be true.



    - Skepticism isn't always pessimistic. :) Skepticism is only a tool, and that tool keeps us from being suckers. I'm not talking about philosophical skepticism btw, where someone takes on skepticism as a world view, I'm talking about skepticism as it applies to intellectualism (i.e. don't believe everything you read).
     
  20. edpobre

    edpobre Well-Known Member

    +1
    savinggrc,



    Do you realize that you are questioning God's word? And do you realize that everything the apostles wrote, they heard from Jesus? Which means savinggrc that you don't really know what to believe!

    The message of John 1:12 is very clear - receive Jesus and you are given the RIGHT to become a child of God.

    The message of Gal. 4:4-5 is also very clear - those redeemed by Christ receive adoption as sons of God.

    The message of Gal. 4:7 is also very clear - as son you are an heir of God through Christ.

    And Romans 8:17 tells us that children of God are heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ.

    You keep saying you believe on the Lord Jesus Christ but you are NOT a child of God. Will you be saved? Definitely not!

    Am I preaching another gospel? Of course not!

    Ed
     
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