What Might Hell Be Like?

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Sitting on the train on my home from work I had some thoughts about Hell.

I know about the Lake of Fire in Revelation, and I don't really want to comment about that because that did not feature in my thoughts. What did feature was Jesus saying that there will be folk in outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

What this suggests to me is that Hell could very much be like being in a totally dark place. When you think of it, if a person rejects Christ, then he can no longer enjoy anything that God has created. Everything in the universe has been created by God, therefore those who reject Christ will not be able to share in it. This means that they will be banished away from the universe and everything into and spend the rest of eternity in total darkness, because even light is a creation of God, and the only light in existence will be the glory of God.

I once went on a geography trip while I was at Teacher Training College and went through a cave that went through a hill. Right in the middle of that cave, the torches were turned off and it was totally black. It was a place where there was a total absence of light. I thought about that, and imagined that this was how the outer darkness would be like for those who rejected Christ.

They would not be in any sort of place, because outside of our universe, which is not infinite - there are boundaries to it. If the origin of the universe was a big bang which caused the stars and planets to expand outward, then outside of the expansion would be the nothingness of space. There would actually be nothing there. This means that outer darkness is not a place, but a placeless existence where souls would remain in a vaccuum where there is the total absence of light. These people would not be able to see anything. Heaven would be so far away from them, they would not see it even in the distance.

Some believe in oblivion in which existence ends. But hell, the way I am thinking about it, us that Christless souls are conscious, and will be, in total darkness, for the rest of eternity. It is not that God is torturing them. It is that He has banished them from everything He has created and will create for those who love Christ and remained faithful to Him.

A Hell, in which people spend the rest of eternity, remaining conscious with their memories and regrets, weeping and gnashing their teeth (if they have any) in total darkness. is unimaginable and that every person should keep right away from it be receiving Christ.

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Bob Crowley]

I'm Catholic and I believe the three children at Fatima in 1917 were given a vision of Hell, as later described by Sister Lucia, the only one of the three to grow to adulthood. The other two were dead within a couple of years.

The vision is well known in Catholic circles, and can be found under the title "First Secret of Fatima".

It's not exactly a pleasant vision.

Moreover I make the claim that the night my own father died, he appeared in my bedroom. He first materialised near the door, moved to the foot of the bed and then started with an apology for the way he'd treated me. We then talked and argued. At the very end of this somewhat unusual episode, the turned to his right (my left), could obviously see something coming for him, cried out "No!", then "NO-O-O", and then screamed in absolute terror, and I mean terror.

Then he just disappeared. That was 39 years ago now, and I still remember it, easily.

Anyway as to the Fatima vision, here it is -

Our Lady showed us a great sea of fire which seemed to be under the earth. Plunged in this fire were demons and souls in human form, like transparent burning embers, all blackened or burnished bronze, floating about in the conflagration, now raised into the air by the flames that issued from within themselves together with great clouds of smoke, now falling back on every side like sparks in a huge fire, without weight or equilibrium, and amid shrieks and groans of pain and despair, which horrified us and made us tremble with fear. The demons could be distinguished by their terrifying and repulsive likeness to frightful and unknown animals, all black and transparent. This vision lasted but an instant. How can we ever be grateful enough to our kind heavenly Mother, who had already prepared us by promising, in the first Apparition, to take us to heaven. Otherwise, I think we would have died of fear and terror.[8]

 

[Greg J.]

Some background info for pondering the questions in the original post.

God does not "undo" anything he has done, because everything he does is perfect. It was Adam's own will that separated him from God. Those descended from Adam have a sinful nature, that is, a rebellious nature that excludes and rejects God. We are in need of a Savior. God paid the price we owed, but that doesn't mean we receive its benefit. God will not force anything on us, including himself. If we do not want him to be our Lord, then we will receive nothing from him after we die. (If we do not believe in him, then he cannot be our Lord; we have entrusted ourselves to an idea, a different "god.") We don't get to pick and choose what qualities we want to retain from God and which we do not after we die. We either have acknowledged God (who is over all and above all) as our God or we have not. If our faith is genuine it will result it works consistent with it. If works do not result, then we have at best intellectual assent, not saving faith.

When we die, if we still have a sinful nature (inherited from Adam), then we cannot withstand God's presence and are "cast away" or "thrown down." It is not because that is what God wants, it is because it is what we wanted (or at least ended up choosing) without understanding the long-term consequences. God has been trying to get people to turn to Him for our own good since the beginning in every way imaginable. He gave no command for his own benefit. That is why Christians' mission is to tell people about Jesus, rather than save them (which only God can do). We are also to love one another, because that is a part of influencing people to turn to Jesus (e.g., being an example so people can see what God is like).

“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” (John 13:34-35, 1984 NIV)

Do you want to be able to influence your children to believe in God? That power is the same power that allows parents to influence their children away from God. It won't be entirely the person's fault if they go to eternal torment, but that doesn't alter the fact they have a sinful nature. We are not "cleansed" of sin when we are saved (nothing can be cleansed from sin), we are spiritually reborn without sin. Our spiritual nature is what determines where we end up, but there eternal Life is only in Christ.

What is hell like? Examine the things we receive because God is in the world, and if saved, is growing in us. There will be no fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), for example. Look at Deuteronomy 28 as a list of consequence of being in Christ vs. not being in Christ—receiving from God as one of his children vs. experiencing earthly existence without God. This reveals a picture that can be applied to what future eternal conditions will be like, because those are the "natural" consequences of our and our ancestors' decisions.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Hell is a complete separation from God, and all that entails.

Kind of like watching the Patriots win the Super Bowl (just kidding).

 

[WebersHome]

-
Through me; the way to the eternal city.
Through me; the way to eternal sadness.
Through me; the way to lost people.

Justice moved my supreme maker:
I was shaped by divine power,
By highest wisdom, and by primal love.

Before me, nothing was created
That is not eternal: and eternally I endure.
Abandon all hope, you that enter here.

The Divine Comedy
by Dante Alighieri
Inferno: canto 3, v.1-9

Dante's poetic epic is called a comedy because it has a happy ending as opposed to a tragedy; at least for Dante anyway. The souls he and Virgil pass along the way through the Inferno portion of Dante's odyssey will never, nor anon, have a happy ending; hence the sign above the entrance to the netherworld: "Abandon all hope, you that enter here."

Webster's defines "despair' as: to no longer have any hope or belief that a situation will improve or change. Well; down in the Inferno section of Dante's concept of the afterlife, despair is a way of life.

/

 

[ToBeLoved]

I honestly don't think much about hell. I don't see the need to, since I'm not going there.

I know it will be a bad place.

 

[Shempster]

The description of "hell" in The Dante's Inferno is hollywood type bogosity. Great for entertainment or scaring children to behave, but it is not reality.
Look around you. Look at the world outside. Look at life in Somalia. Honduras. Mumbai. Inner cities. Being born into a place of danger, disease, death, torture, exploitation, and constant fear with no God or righteous human in sight to help is surely hell.

 

[BobRyan]

Sitting on the train on my home from work I had some thoughts about Hell.

I know about the Lake of Fire in Revelation, and I don't really want to comment about that because that did not feature in my thoughts.

Yet that - and Rev 14 are the most explicit details we have on what it is... when it is... where it is... who goes there...

 

[WebersHome]

-
According to Jesus Christ's testimony as a credible expert witness in all matters pertaining to the afterlife; most of the world's responsible souls haven't been making it to safety when they cross over to the other side.

● Luke 13:22-24 . . And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. Then said one unto him, master, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them: Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

● Matt 7:13-14 . . Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

● Matt 22:14 . . For many are called, but few are chosen.

Webster's defines "many" as consisting of, or amounting to, a large but indefinite number; while "few" is defined as consisting of, or amounting to, only a small number; viz: relative to many then, few is the lesser. Bear with me while I flesh this out.

According to the US Census Bureau: as of Jan 24, 2018 @ 09:19 pm New York Time, the resident population in the United States was approximately 327,085,089 with a death rate of approximately one every 10 seconds; which translates to an average of 8,640 American deaths of all ages, races, and genders during just one 24-hour calendar day.

According to 2009 US Census data; roughly 27.3% of America's daily deaths are under the age of 19, which would indicate that approximately 6,281 of the current daily death rate per 24 hours are adults.

Giving the "many" the benefit of the doubt by limiting their maximum percentage to 51%, would indicate a minimum of 3,203 American adults transferring to perdition every day: which translates to roughly 133 per hour.

That's a very conservative estimate as Christ didn't really specify exact percentages to represent the quantities of "few" and "many". But just think: by the time CBS completes its national half hour evening news report, a bare-bones minimum of 66 Americans become new arrivals in the fiery sector of the netherworld.

Using the ratio of 3,203 condemned souls per 327,085,089 US population: computing the number of condemned souls worldwide from a currently estimated global population of 7,449,544,928 people, would suggest something like 72,950 new arrivals in the fiery sector of the netherworld every 24 hours; which translates to approximately 3,039 souls every sixty minutes on the clock.

That rate would fill the 51,800 seats of the new Yankee Stadium to capacity in roughly 17 hours and 3 minutes. In other words: if the world's daily number of condemned souls started filing into the stadium at 06:00 am this morning, then by 11:03 pm tonight, the stadium would be full to capacity.

Christmas and New Year are even worse. A study done of 26 years of death certificates shows that coronary fatalities are, on average, 11.9% higher on those days than any other days of the year; with non-heart deaths spiking to 12.2% higher.

Christianity's hell never closes; no, not at all: it's open for business 24/7/365 nonstop and indifferent to global warming, Wall Street crashes, massive layoffs, outsourcing, high school shootings, terrorism, tsunamis, earthquakes, hurricanes, storm surges, nuclear meltdowns, air, water, and soil pollution, a mission to Mars, freeway pile-ups, brown-outs, threatened species, the price of oil, student debt, GMO, trade deficits, protests, Federal debt, factory recalls, overpopulation, desertification, genocides, revolutions, civil wars, acid rain, road rage, oil spills, conscious decoupling, ISIS, LGBT marriage, Obamacare, blood diamonds, fracking, twerking, and/or President Donald Trump's tweets.

If Christianity's perception of Jesus Christ and the hereafter is correct; then it's apparent that souls never stop cascading into the abyss in an endless procession like the unbelievable millions of poultry broilers passing annually through Tyson chicken-processing plants on their way to Wendy's, McDonalds, Carl's Junior, Jack in the Box, Burger King, Chic-fil-A, KFC, A&W, Arby's, Dairy Queen, Taco Bell, et al; and to supermarkets and restaurants all over the USA and wherever else Tyson vends its meats. The slaughtering and the butchering never stop.

Point being: people on a road to hell can expect to live in a society where privacy does not exist; no, not with all those souls pouring in every day adding to the souls already there that have been accumulating since the dawn of humanity.

/

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Yet that - and Rev 14 are the most explicit details we have on what it is... when it is... where it is... who goes there...

Quite right. I just offered another take on it from what Jesus said about being cast into outer darkness.

 

[ClementofA]

Psalms 49:19

“He shall go to the generation of his fathers; they shall never see light.”

The word mistranslated "never" above is Strong's Hebrew word #5331, netsach. Here it is translated "permanence":

Psa.49:19 Yet he shall come unto the generation of his fathers; Unto permanence, they shall not see light. (CLV)

permanently, "in a way that lasts or remains unchanged indefinitely"

"the state or quality of lasting or remaining unchanged indefinitely. "the clarity and permanence of the dyes" "

Here netsach is used of finite duration that had already ended & is translated "perpetually":

Amos 1:11 Thus, saith Yahweh, Because of three transgressions of Edom, and because of four, will I not turn it back,—Because he pursued, with the sword, his brother, and stifled his compassions, and his anger tare in pieces evermore, and, his indignation, kept watch perpetually[5331]

The LXX Hebrew scholars who translated NETSACH in the Septuagint rendered it AION[165] in the Greek OT, meaning literally an "age" or "eon" (The Apostolic Bible Polygot, Greek-English Interlinear, p.794). This Greek-English interlinear says "unto the eon he shall not see light". The Greek OT was the Scriptures most often quoted in the NT & used by the early church.

There is no endless punishment in Psa.49:19.

 

[ClementofA]

Daniel 12:2

“And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”

Young's Literal Translation
'And the multitude of those sleeping in the dust of the ground do awake, some to life age-during, and some to reproaches -- to abhorrence age-during.

Rotherham
and, many of the sleepers in the dusty ground, shall awake,—these, [shall be] to age-abiding life, but, those, to reproach, and age-abiding abhorrence;

CLOT
2 From those sleeping in the soil of the ground many shall awake, these to eonian life and these to reproach for eonian repulsion." 3 The intelligent shall warn as the warning
of the atmosphere, and those justifying many are as the stars for the eon and further."

 

[ClementofA]

-
According to Jesus Christ's testimony as a credible expert witness in all matters pertaining to the afterlife; most of the world's responsible souls haven't been making it to safety when they cross over to the other side.

● Luke 13:22-24 . . And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. Then said one unto him, master, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them: Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

● Matt 7:13-14 . . Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

● Matt 22:14 . . For many are called, but few are chosen.

Webster's defines "many" as consisting of, or amounting to, a large but indefinite number; while "few" is defined as consisting of, or amounting to, only a small number; viz: relative to many then, few is the lesser. Bear with me while I flesh this out.

Note the word MANY, not "few":

Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just act for all mankind for life's justifying."

Rom 5:19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, THE MANY were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, THE MANY shall be constituted just."

"He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify MANY; for he shall bear their iniquities." (Isa.53:11).

For how "many" (not few) did He "bear their iniquities"?

 

[WebersHome]

-
People have been filtering into perdition not only since the time of Christ, but since before the Step Pyramid of Djoser, and even before the Flood. I won't speculate how many years that might be, but h.sapiens is thought by some to have achieved full behavioral modernity something like 50,000 years ago. Whether that extends clear on back to Adam and Eve I have no clue; but just think: if it does, then Cain and others from his era have been down in the netherworld all this time.

It's difficult for the human mind to appreciate 50,000 years. I've been on the Earth for just 74, and I've noticed that my childhood is so far in the past to me now as to seem more like a fantasy than a memory. But you know; when you're talking about eternity, 50,000 years isn't even a drop in the bucket. If it were a drop in the bucket, it would be a bucket with no bottom; which is roughly akin to the futility of a gnat attempting to drink up the Atlantic ocean. It would also be akin to Forrest Gump thinking he could fill a sieve with water faster by dipping it into a bucket instead of using the tap.

But just think: time stands still in hell: it's for the now; it's an existence. People who arrived there yesterday didn't begin doing time in jail like Lindsay Lohan and OJ Simpson expecting to get out some day; nor is perdition a temporary tour of duty like shipping out to Afghanistan. No, people in hell are in it as perpetual residents; they're in a rut.

They go year, after year, after year, after year, with no relief from the pain and discomfort: no vacations, no recreation, no reading materials, and no hobbies-- there's absolutely nothing to do but reminisce and writhe in fire. The mental atrophy, and the boredom that must result from that kind of mindless existence is beyond estimation.

In life, everybody enjoys God's blessings; even the really bad people. We're all breathing fresh air, basking in sunshine, drinking cool water, savoring tasty foods, listening to birds chirp, star gazing at night, throwing snow balls at each other in winter, river rafting, fishing, snow skiing, tending gardens, pruning shrubs, greeting friends during the holidays, spending days with grandkids; and all that sort of thing. In the Bible's hell, there are no blessings of any kind at all: only perpetual sadness, vexation, despair, and want.

In hell's unruly society; it's reasonable to expect quarrels, bickering, hard feelings, vendettas, rivalry, selfishness, insensitivity, irritation, aggravation, and ugly words exchanged between people. Is there really any good reason to be courteous and/or respect your fellow man's human rights in the Bible's hell; or to be kind, forgiving, affable, genial, courteous, cordial, charitable, altruistic, tolerant, generous, and patient? I was once discussing the netherworld with a co-worker and he remarked: "Hell won't be so bad; I'll have plenty of friends down there". Yes, he probably will have lots of friends in hell; but I really don't think he should count on them being friendly.

And the din: think of the volume of noise down there with all the wailing and sobbing, and the screams, shrieks, yelps, howls, and gnashing teeth. I get rather irritated by the behavior of late night comedy audiences. I can only imagine how much worse I'd be annoyed in hell with its thousands and millions of people making all that kind of racket.

But just imagine bringing with you a craving for tobacco with none available. Or longing for a cocktail with no liquor in sight. A desire for music, with no way to produce it. A skill for writing, with no pen and paper. Yearning for a walk out in nature, with no world to do it in.

People in the Bible's hell will never again smell a sea breeze, sit in the shade of a tree, take deep breaths of mountain-fresh air, play at sports, hear a bird chirp, see a sunset, watch a lunar eclipse, jog in the park, strum a guitar, enjoy a Christmas dinner with loved ones; nor make little pigs of themselves gobbling barbecued spare ribs and corn on the 4th of July.

Sports and recreation are gone: no more World Series, no more Super Bowl, no more Olympics, no more Las Vegas, no more Indian casinos, no more lottery, no more Lego World, no more Sea World, no more NASCAR, no more golf, no more surfing, et al.

No baths, no showers, no sleep, no TV, no radio, no iPods, no computers, no Twitter, no texting, no FaceBook, no Instagram, no YouTube, no MySpace, no internet, no clean sheets, no breakfast, no lunch, and no dinner. No snacks, no gum, no candy, no flowers, no parks, no rivers, no snow, no seasons, no picnics, no malls, no fast food, no trades, no careers, no trendy fashions, no jewelry, no cosmetics, no concerts, no operas, and no hobbies; absolutely nothing of this world that brings people the pleasures and the satisfactions of just being alive.

No pets are allowed in the Bible's hell and no flowers or vegetation of any kind. The absence of birds, fish, and animals of course precludes the citizens of hell ever again spending a day at the zoo. The one advantage of the lack of pets and vegetation in hell is the absence of fleas, mosquitoes, and allergies. I suppose you could say that's at least one good thing about it. There's a bright side to everything I guess; even to that place.

FYI: Even if only 100 people per day went to hell in the past 50,000 years, those numbers would add up to 1,825,000,000, i.e. 1.825 billion prisoners.

To put that in perspective: 1.825 billion 12-inch rulers laid end to end would stretch 345,644 miles; and circle the equator nearly fourteen times.

/

 

[1213]

Sitting on the train on my home from work I had some thoughts about Hell.

I know about the Lake of Fire in Revelation, and I don't really want to comment about that because that did not feature in my thoughts. What did feature was Jesus saying that there will be folk in outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.

What this suggests to me is that Hell could very much be like being in a totally dark place. ....

Jesus also told that hell is a place where soul and body are destroyed.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Jesus also told that hell is a place where soul and body are destroyed.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

Correct. It all depends on whether God's definition of "destroyed" means total annihilation.

 

[ClementofA]

Jesus also told that hell is a place where soul and body are destroyed.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

A building that is "destroyed" is not annihilated forever or even annihilated. It is ruined. Then it can be rebuilt, restored or repaired. Like the fixing of a car engine:


Category:Rebuilt buildings and structures - Wikipedia

"When shopping for a used car, one of the kinds of vehicles that buyers may come across is rebuilt cars. While there are slight variations from state to state, rebuilt cars are cars that have been, through accident or other means, totaled and repaired or rebuilt from the ground up."

As to the meaning of the word "destroy", Websters' first definition is "ruin" and second definition is to "put out of existence":

destroy | Definition of destroy in English by Oxford Dictionaries

A common definition of "destroy":

"ruin (someone) emotionally or spiritually.
"he has been determined to destroy her" "

The same Greek word at Mt.10:28 for "destroy" is used of the "lost" [destroyed, ruined, damaged] prodigal son who was later found, who was said to be dead, but later became alive.

The same Greek word is used later in Mt.10:

Mt.10:39 He who is finding his soul will be destroying it, and he who destroys his soul on My account will be finding it. clv

By speaking of "destroying" our own "soul" [v.39] did Jesus mean we could annihilate it out of existence? Evidently not. So why should we think He meant annihilation of the soul earlier in the context [v.28] when speaking of the exact same thing, i.e. a soul being destroyed?

A passage in Matthew that has been interpreted as speaking of the possibility of release from "hell" (Gehenna) is:

Matt 5:25-26 . .Come to terms quickly with your adversary before it is too late and you are dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. I assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.

This is spoken of by Jesus in the context of references to Gehenna, both before and after this passage.

Matthew was probably written to Jews & in the opening chapter of this book he told his readers that Jesus shall save His people from their sins (1:21), i.e. His people Israel (2:6). I take that to include people like Judas Iscariot & wicked Pharisees who died in their sins. But lest anyone think that is a licence to live sinfully, Jesus gives warnings such as those in Mt.10:28.

 

[WebersHome]

-
Creeping up the blind side, shinning up the wall,
stealing through the dark of the night.
Climbing through a window, stepping to the floor
checking to the left and the right.
Picking up the pieces, putting them away;
something doesn't feel quite right.

Help me someone, let me out of here.
Then out of the dark was suddenly heard:
Welcome to the Home by the Sea

Coming out the woodwork, through the open door,
pushing from above and below.
Shadows with no substance, in the shape of men;
round and down and sideways they go.
Adrift without direction, eyes that hold despair
then as one they sigh and they moan:

Help us someone, let us out of here.
Living here so long undisturbed,
dreaming of the time we were free
so many years ago
before the time when we first heard:
Welcome to the Home by the Sea

Sit down . . Sit down
As we relive our lives in what we tell you

Images of sorrow, pictures of delight
things that go to make up a life.
Endless days of summer, longer nights of gloom
waiting for the morning light.
Scenes of unimportance, photos in a frame
things that go to make up a life.

Sit down . . Sit down
Cause you won't get away,
no with us you will stay
for the rest of your days.
So sit down as we relive our lives in what we tell you.
Let us relive our lives in what we tell you.

Home By The Sea
Genesis, 1983
Phil Collins, Tony Banks, Mike Rutherford

The lyrics of that song are so sad because it depicts how the only thing people have to do down in the netherworld to help pass the time is tell each other about their previous lives. There is, of course, nothing to tell about their lives in hades since the colloquialism "get a life" is a non sequitur in that place. Nobody has a life down there; nor any hope of getting one.

● Ecc 9:10 . . Whatever your hand finds to do, verily, do it with all your might; for there is no activity or planning or knowledge or wisdom in sheol where you are going.

/