What makes you to differ?

[Skala]

By the grace of God I am what I am.

As a Calvinist, I can consistently say this alongside the Apostle Paul.

What makes you what you are? If you deny effectual grace (irresistible grace) you cannot say that grace alone is what made you differ (sola gratia) from those who end up in hell.

So since it isn't grace, it must be something about you.

 

[EmSw]

By the grace of God I am what I am.

As a Calvinist, I can consistently say this alongside the Apostle Paul.

What makes you what you are? If you deny effectual grace (irresistible grace) you cannot say that grace alone is what made you differ (sola gratia) from those who end up in hell.

So since it isn't grace, it must be something about you.

And just what are you by the grace of God?

Titus 2 tells us what we should be by God's grace:

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

And yes Skala, living by grace is ABOUT you and me. We are the ones who SHOULD live soberly, righteously, and godly in this world.

 

[extraordinary]

By the grace of God I am what I am.
As a Calvinist, I can consistently say this alongside the Apostle Paul.
What makes you what you are?
If you deny effectual grace (irresistible grace) you cannot say that grace alone
is what made you differ (sola gratia) from those who end up in hell.
So since it isn't grace, it must be something about you.

This is how I see it ...

The first grace (God's unmerited favor) was that anyone at all could go to heaven!

The second grace was God's free gift of grace-faith given to specific people of God's choosing, i.e. BACs.

However, Scripture is very clear in both OT and NT ...
believers MUST co-operate with God to make it to heaven!

They MUST strive to be obedient to God's commands.
They MUST strive to be righteous in God's eyes.
This is all about progressive sanctification unto holiness.
And thus, only the righteous make it to heaven!

Therefore, it is entirely possible for a BAC to miss heaven!

And I have already presented dozens of Scriptures to back up all of my statements above.
.

 

[extraordinary]

Titus 2 tells us what we should be by God's grace:
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts,
we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Yes, and this is representative of many passages ...
which purposely do NOT threaten loss of salvation, IF the passages are NOT adhered to.

If many passages were threatening loss of eternal life, too many BACs would throw in the towel.

The truth about all of this must be revealed through the Spirit @ the right time for each individual.
.

 

[bling]

By the grace of God I am what I am.

As a Calvinist, I can consistently say this alongside the Apostle Paul.

What makes you what you are? If you deny effectual grace (irresistible grace) you cannot say that grace alone is what made you differ (sola gratia) from those who end up in hell.

So since it isn't grace, it must be something about you.

It is the grace of God!

A soldier that surrenders to his enemy in the heat of the battle who is also guilty of war crimes deserves to be tortured and killed, but he did wimp out and will allow his enemy to show him mercy. It is that “mercy” of his enemy (God) that makes him hugely different. Those that fight on are better in a worldly way than those that surrender and can take pride in never having to accept charity from their enemy (God).

 

[Steeno7]

By the grace of God I am what I am.

As a Calvinist, I can consistently say this alongside the Apostle Paul.

What makes you what you are? If you deny effectual grace (irresistible grace) you cannot say that grace alone is what made you differ (sola gratia) from those who end up in hell.

So since it isn't grace, it must be something about you.

By grace through faith.

 

[Skala]

By grace through faith.

But Calvinists credit God even for their faith.

Literally everything about why I am saved is due to God's grace. My faith, my willingness to turn from sin to Jesus, my obedience to the gospel, etc.

 

[bling]

But Calvinists credit God even for their faith.

Literally everything about why I am saved is due to God's grace. My faith, my willingness to turn from sin to Jesus, my obedience to the gospel, etc.

All mature adults have faith in something and can thank God for that, but that does not mean they will direct that faith toward a benevolent Creator.

 

[Steeno7]

But Calvinists credit God even for their faith.

I understand. They are wrong.

 

[Skala]

I understand. They are wrong.

Oh ok. I will stop praising and crediting God for something he doesn't deserve.I will stop giving Him too much credit. I mean, I did some of it right? I will stop giving him ALL the praise and glory for my salvation just part of it.

Happy now?

Thank you Steen for proving that synergism is a blasphemous atrocity.

 

[sdowney717]

But Calvinists credit God even for their faith.

Literally everything about why I am saved is due to God's grace. My faith, my willingness to turn from sin to Jesus, my obedience to the gospel, etc.

Exactly, by grace you have been saved.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Right there saved by grace. Then further along Paul says again by grace through faith not of yourselves being the gift of God. Even the good works you do being prepared beforehand, that is before you existed, since we are His workmanship which He created in Christ Jesus.

You have been chosen from before the world was in Christ.
Paul is talking to the saints, that includes all God's saints, His children, even us now who believe today who also heard His voice and responded to the call of the Master.

Eph 1

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God,

To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Redemption in Christ

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,

4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved.

A more powerful affirmation of His love towards His children whom he chose beforehand I don't think can be written.

Paul tells us our part in this wonderful salvation being described as our trusting in the Lord Jesus to save us who believe.

12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

 

[Steeno7]

Oh ok. I will stop praising and crediting God for something he doesn't deserve.I will stop giving Him too much credit. I mean, I did some of it right? I will stop giving him ALL the praise and glory for my salvation just part of it.

Happy now?

Thank you Steen for proving that synergism is a blasphemous atrocity.

Oh, I've proven that, eh? With that one little post? A blasphemous atrocity? LOL. How is anyone supposed to take you seriously?

 

[stenerson]

1 Cor 4:7 For who regards you as superior? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?

 

[Skala]

Oh, I've proven that, eh? With that one little post? A blasphemous atrocity? LOL. How is anyone supposed to take you seriously?

I was being snarky. But they certainly an't take you seriously. Since you don't want people praising and thanking God for every facet of their salvation.

Can't imagine a more heinous crime.

 

[Steeno7]

I was being snarky. But they certainly an't take you seriously. Since you don't want people praising and thanking God for every facet of their salvation.

Can't imagine a more heinous crime.

I have committed no crime. But there is a much more heinous crime than you have falsely accused me of, and which you are guilty of. You would deceive others into believing that God has placed an arbitrary limitation upon the efficacy of the blood of Christ.

On the basis of your strange belief, the judgment of God falls upon those who remain in their rebellion, only because they are unable to exercise faith, which only God can give, and which He has refused to give them. You blaspheme the grace, the love and the integrity of God. You make God morally responsible for the unbelief of the unbeliever, and saddle Him with the guilt of the guilty as an aider and abettor of their sin.

Jesus has made it abundantly clear that any reluctance is on man's part, not on God's.

 

[Skala]

I have committed no crime. But there is a much more heinous crime than you have falsely accused me of, and which you are guilty of. You would deceive others into believing that God has placed an arbitrary limitation upon the efficacy of the blood of Christ.

This couldn't be further from the truth. Nothing God does is arbitrary. Arbitrary means "without reason or purpose". The Bible gives reasons for what God does: it is the purpose of His will. It is for the praise of his glorious grace. It is so His purpose can stand. Etc. Just because you don't like the reasons the Bible gives doesn't mean they are arbitrary.

On the basis of your strange belief, the judgment of God falls upon those who remain in their rebellion, only because they are unable to exercise faith, which only God can give, and which He has refused to give them.

False. They are not condemned for something they can't do. They are condemned for something they are unwilling to do. Their inability stems from their unwillingness. It's not as if there is someone that is willing to obey the gospel, but is somehow unable to.

You blaspheme the grace, the love and the integrity of God

Yes. God saves billions and billions of people that should have gone to hell, out of pure love and grace and mercy. HOW HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!! What blasphemy to believe God stepped in and intervened to save anyone at all!!

You make God morally responsible for the unbelief of the unbeliever, and saddle Him with the guilt of the guilty as an aider and abettor of their sin.

I don't know what you think you are arguing against, but it isn't anything I believe. God is not responsible for man's unbelief and rebellion; man is. Maybe you should accurately represent me, instead of, you know, misrepresenting me.

If anyone stops rebelling against God, it is because of grace, not because some people are just morally better than others.

Jesus has made it abundantly clear that any reluctance is on man's part, not on God's.

I'm glad we agree. Why on earth did you think I believed otherwise?

In conclusion, it saddens me that you turn God's grace into something evil. All men deserve hell, and God steps in and saves billions of them, for no reason other than He is being kind. To this, you stomp your foot in rebellion, you spit in God's face and accuse such a belief of being blasphemous. Why? All because He didn't save everyone (universalism). The double standard here, of course, is that the same is true of your belief. You, too, don't believe God saved everyone. In fact, God didn't intervene, in your view, to save even a single person! In your view, it is all left up to chance. Heck, the entire human race might have landed in hell, in your view.

 

[Steeno7]

This couldn't be further from the truth. Nothing God does is arbitrary. Arbitrary means "without reason or purpose". The Bible gives reasons for what God does: it is the purpose of His will. It is for the praise of his glorious grace. It is so His purpose can stand. Etc. Just because you don't like the reasons the Bible gives doesn't mean they are arbitrary.

If it couldn't be further from the truth, then stop presenting it as truth.

False. They are not condemned for something they can't do. They are condemned for something they are unwilling to do. Their inability stems from their unwillingness. It's not as if there is someone that is willing to obey the gospel, but is somehow unable to.

So, those He grants faith to are those who are willing? You haven't really thought this through have you?

Yes. God saves billions and billions of people that should have gone to hell, out of pure love and grace and mercy. HOW HORRIBLE!!!!!!!!! What blasphemy to believe God stepped in and intervened to save anyone at all!!

And by "anyone" you mean those God has given faith to because "they" were willing...while withholding faith from those who are unwilling. So much for total depravity, eh?

I don't know what you think you are arguing against, but it isn't anything I believe. God is not responsible for man's unbelief and rebellion; man is. Maybe you should accurately represent me, instead of, you know, misrepresenting me.

If God isn't responsible, then stop saying He is.

If anyone stops rebelling against God, it is because of grace, not because some people are just morally better than others.

It has nothing to do with man's morality, never said it did.

 

[Skala]

If it couldn't be further from the truth, then stop presenting it as truth.

Where did I do any such thing? I guarantee I never presented your strawman as a truth.

So, those He grants faith to are those who are willing? You haven't really thought this through have you?

You miss the point. Nobody is willing because men by fallen nature are hostile to God and think of Christ and the gospel as foolishness.

It is by grace that anyone is willing in the first place.

And by "anyone" you mean those God has given faith to because "they" were willing...while withholding faith from those who are unwilling. So much for total depravity, eh?

If you move into a house where the walls are already painted pink, is it your fault the walls are pink, or the previous owners'?

By saying God is to blame for the unbelief of unbelievers the same as saying it's YOUR fault the walls are pink. But you didn't paint them pink. The other guy did. If you choose to paint over the walls, that is a different story.

In like manner, unbelief is the fault of the sinner. If God chooses to give faith, he has been gracious in doing so, but he is not at fault for the original unbelief.

If God isn't responsible, then stop saying He is.

Where did I say he is? I see a pattern here, and that pattern is you think I said stuff I didn't say. You are putting words in my mouth. Why the assertions and purposeful misrepresentations?

It has nothing to do with man's morality, never said it did.

Ok. If the reason why one person believes while another doesn't (in your view) doesn't have anything to do with their innate morality, what does it have to do with? What made the to differ? What made the difference?

Grace, or something else?

Obviously, you disagree that "grace" is the answer. So what is that answer?

 

[Steeno7]

You miss the point. Nobody is willing because men by fallen nature are hostile to God and think of Christ and the gospel as foolishness.

It is by grace that anyone is willing in the first place.

God makes them willing and then God gives them faith, got it.

If you move into a house where the walls are already painted pink, is it your fault the walls are pink, or the previous owners'?

By saying God is to blame for the unbelief of unbelievers the same as saying it's YOUR fault the walls are pink. But you did't paint them pink. The other guy did. If you choose to paint over the walls, that is a different story.

In like manner, unbelief is the fault of the sinner. If God chooses to give faith, he has been gracious in doing so, but he is not at fault for the original unbelief of all of those other people.

If, as you say, God gives faith, then God is at fault for those who do not have faith. Unless there is something inherent in those He gives faith to, that makes them worthy of faith, as opposed to those He does not. But, you have just stated that "nobody is willing because men by fallen nature are hostile to God". Seems you have a conundrum there.

Where did I say he is? I see a pattern here, and that pattern is you think I said stuff I didn't say. You are putting words in my mouth. Why the assertions and purposeful misrepresentations?

Apparently you have never considered the logical conclusion of your own beliefs.

Ok. If the reason why one person believes while another doesn't (in your view) doesn't have anything to do with their innate morality, what does it have to do with? What made the to differ? What made the difference?

Grace, or something else?

Obviously, you disagree that "grace" is the answer. So what is that answer?

You're right back to where we began. Grace through faith.

 

[FreeGrace2]

By the grace of God I am what I am.

As a Calvinist, I can consistently say this alongside the Apostle Paul.

I'll be all who believe in Christ agree with this. Being a Calvinist has nothing at all to do with it.

What makes you what you are? If you deny effectual grace (irresistible grace) you cannot say that grace alone is what made you differ (sola gratia) from those who end up in hell.

Oh, I see. Only Calvinists have the "right" to say it, huh.

So since it isn't grace, it must be something about you.

First, there is nothing in Scripture that says that God's grace is irresistible, in spite of what Calvinists believe about it.

Second, even those who correctly reject the teaching of "irresistible grace" know that the difference between those with eternal life and those without eternal life is grace alone. There is no other difference.

Setting up these straw men arguments is kinda getting old, dontcha think?