What Makes One Righteous?

[Messianic Jewboy]

I don't think that the ground was cursed because of the tree growing ... since God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden in the first place.

The cursing of the ground comes more from the sin of Adam and Eve and its effect on everything.

Prior to the golden calf there was no curses(Deut). G-d said Israel would be a nation of priests THEN the golden calf episode.

 

[visionary]

Prior to the golden calf there was no curses(Deut). G-d said Israel would be a nation of priests THEN the golden calf episode.

Now that is a leap of several millennia

 

[annier]

Prior to the golden calf there was no curses(Deut). G-d said Israel would be a nation of priests THEN the golden calf episode.

How do you view the tribe of Levi in this? How does Judaism view it?

 

[Avodat]

Now that is a leap of several millennia

Really? We are up to 5777 at the moment - 2000 years back to Yeshua, 2000 back again to Abram - that only leaves about 1700 years or so back to Genesis 1.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

My point the ground was cursed long before Moses. Refer to gen 1:11-12, gen 2:9 the ground brought forth the trees, therefore the ground was responsible and rightly cursed.

It is not that the ground is cursed, its that the entire creation is cursed, all the land, all the animals, all the tress, everything is now in bondage.


We tend to look at the Earth as a separate thing than ourselves, but we are the Earth, we are one with the whole creation, but we were put in a bondage along with the whole Earth.

That's what I believe, that Jesus once again became a working part of the atoms that make up this earth, that he could have been anything on the Earth and done anything from walking on water, to flying in the air.

I believe if things were restored, we would all be one with the earth and nothing would be impossible.

 

[Lulav]

This is an interesting thought. It could have made the tables lighter to carry in a persons hands. But, it would also make them easier to break as in the sense of shattering.
But then would the tables be made large enough so there would be enough space between each letter so as to make the tables stable, without breaking too easily? This may not mean anything to you but...I find it interesting how the Hebrew scribes which wrote the septuagint describes the writing.
Exodus 32:15 And Moses turned and went down the mountain, and the two tables of testimony were in his hands, tables of stone written on both their sides: They were written within and without.
So, I think you could be correct in what you say here. "[FONT=&quot]the letters went straight through" being within and without the stone.
[/FONT]Thank you, as I never would have looked into this concept.

This was thought many centuries before we had lasers and holograms but I think that these two things could be involved or something even more complex. But when we look at the creation itself and study the miraculous intrinsic then we must attribute this same level to the making of the tablets or at least the writing thereof.

The Tablets were kept inside the ark which was also the throne of G-d on earth. This means they were protected in a gold lined box.

I think the best way to describe how they were written was to say they were written within and without. As I said before this places the letters as integral parts of the stone (which some believed that this came from the 'floor' of the throne of G-d which was sapphire) and could not be separated from it. What Moses wrote down were letters of ink on parchment which could actually be 'erased' from the skin and therefore did not become one with the lambskin.

 

[mercy1061]

I don't think that the ground was cursed because of the tree growing ... since God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden in the first place.

The cursing of the ground comes more from the sin of Adam and Eve and its effect on everything.

The ground brought forth thorns and thistles. The ground brought forth the trees in the garden.

 

[Avodat]

It is not that the ground is cursed, its that the entire creation is cursed, all the land, all the animals, all the tress, everything is now in bondage.


We tend to look at the Earth as a separate thing than ourselves, but we are the Earth, we are one with the whole creation, but we were put in a bondage along with the whole Earth.

That's what I believe, that Jesus once again became a working part of the atoms that make up this earth, that he could have been anything on the Earth and done anything from walking on water, to flying in the air.

I believe if things were restored, we would all be one with the earth and nothing would be impossible.

The serpent and the ground were cursed - not Adam or Eve. For man and woman there were to be harder lives but they were not cursed by G_d.

 

[Lulav]

As far as the 'ten commandments' and the 'law of Moses' they are two that are echad. You can't separate them.

Think about the English word we use 'tables' (old French, Olde English etc) , 'Table of contents' this is what the words written on the stone were.

They were the breakdown of the two subjects of the Law of G-d;

Part 1: Love the L-RD your G-d
and
Part 2:Love your neighbor

The L-RD gave these headings and later on filled Moses in on how to fulfill them.

All the things Moses wrote down would fall into one of the ten headings which fall under the two.

The tables were basically the key and the testimony. If you look at the ten as categories then you will see what I mean.

For instance the fourth commandment, Keep the Sabbath Holy, now how would humans know how to do this? Moses was given specifics on what to do and what not to do. These permissions and restrictions shape how to keep that commandment.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

The serpent and the ground were cursed - not Adam or Eve. For man and woman there were to be harder lives but they were not cursed by G_d.

Interesting if there is a difference, but I can't help but think that they were cursed because they started dying. Maybe it wasn't a curse, but an outcome?

I don't know.

I see them connected though, like Adam and Eve had a literal connection with the earth in a way that made them one with the Earth, in a strange way.

Something was changed in the Earth, I wonder what it did before man had to toil? I also think of Jesus cursing a tree for not bearing fruit, its curious.

That the Earth would literally work different towards us if we were in the same state as before the fall.

 

[visionary]

Cursed made changes... serpent crawls on belly....ground grows thistles

 

[Lulav]

Interesting if there is a difference, but I can't help but think that they were cursed because they started dying. Maybe it wasn't a curse, but an outcome?

I don't know.

I see them connected though, like Adam and Eve had a literal connection with the earth in a way that made them one with the Earth, in a strange way.

Something was changed in the Earth, I wonder what it did before man had to toil? I also think of Jesus cursing a tree for not bearing fruit, its curious.

That the Earth would literally work different towards us if we were in the same state as before the fall.

Yes dying is a curse, mankind was an immortal being at creation. Then he lost that immortality and was denoted to being mortal. Yeshua lifts us out of that state and brings us eternal life, immortality once again.

 

[Avodat]

Paul speaks of the whole of creation groaning see Romans 8:19-25. Man and woman were made different to the common things of the rest of creation - man was made in G_d's image, no other part of creation can claim that, but we, too, groan until our redemption and the restoration of all things at Yeshua's feet.

It is sin that caused us to be mortal - not G'd's choice, but man's.

 

[Lulav]

Creation is groaning because of what Adam did. But basically mankind cursed itself by not keeping the one commandment given. Arurah can mean to belittle, and Adam belittled himself by losing immortality by sinning.

I think another 'curse' or repercussion from this incident is that in the garden, it was subjective to eat from the fruit of the trees, it was not necessary because man had immortality, but after he disobeyed he now had to eat to live. So the punishment fit the crime. Kinda reminds me of the time in the wilderness when kvetching went on about the flesh pots in Egypt and the L-RD 'fixed' that by sending them so much quail they had it coming out the wazoo.

 

[mercy1061]

Prior to the golden calf there was no curses(Deut). G-d said Israel would be a nation of priests THEN the golden calf episode.

There were several curses before the golden calf incident, the ground and the serpent was cursed, Noah cursed Canaan. Noah cursed Canaan so that Israel could possess the promise land.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

There were several curses before the golden calf incident, the ground and the serpent was cursed, Noah cursed Canaan. Noah cursed Canaan so that Israel could possess the promise land.

I'm referring to the curses in Deut.

 

[mercy1061]

I'm referring to the curses in Deut.

I believe the torah is five books not just one book, my hand has four fingers and a thumb. Genesis is the first book, beginning of torah.

 

[Yahudim]

I believe you are right. And yes, I still count on my fingers too.

I believe the torah is five books not just one book, my hand has four fingers and a thumb. Genesis is the first book, beginning of torah.

 

[Messianic Jewboy]

I believe the torah is five books not just one book, my hand has four fingers and a thumb. Genesis is the first book, beginning of torah.

Again I'm referring to the curses in Deut.

 

[mercy1061]

Again I'm referring to the curses in Deut.

DId serpents crawl on their belly in deut.?