LDS What major translation problems do LDS see in the Bible?

Andrewn

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This "sacred" ceremony in no way extends any kind of gratitude to satan for anything.
So, what are the "priesthoods" of Satan? Why do LDS imitate Satan in wearing aprons, even after death? Why are they thankful for the Fall?
 
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Andrewn

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You said: "He had only one Son---same substance as He. We are adopted children, not natural children. You know all this, it has been said countless times."

Saying something many times does not make it so. God has many sons:

(Old Testament | Job 1:6)

6 ¶ Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

(Old Testament | Job 2:1)

1 AGAIN there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

(Old Testament | Job 38:7)

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
So, who are the elohim and the sons of elohim mentioned in these verses and also in Gen 6:2; Deu 32:8; Psa 82:6; etc. Are they pre-mortal spirits or exalted beings from a previous creation?

I asked this question several times already and haven't received an answer.
 
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He is the way

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quotes,

"Yes, President Young did teach that Adam was the father of our spirits and all the related things that the cultists ascribe to him." Those who are acquainted with Mormon theology will recognize that this is an admission that Brigham Young taught that Adam was God the Father. Apostle McConkie's revealing statements seem to mark the end of a cover-up which has lasted for over a hundred years.
...
Young clearly believed that Adam was the father of the spirits of mankind in addition to being the first procreator of mankind's physical bodies; . . . and that Adam was the spiritual and physical father of Jesus Christ (Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Spring 1982, page 45).
...
Brigham Young emphasized that God Himself had revealed the doctrine to him:

How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me—namely that Adam is our father and God—. . . (Deseret News Weekly, June 18, 1873)

On October 8, 1861, Brigham Young said:

Some years ago, I advanced a doctrine with regard to Adam being our father and God. . . . It is one of the most glorious revealments of the economy of heaven, . . . ("A Few Words of Doctrine," unpublished manuscript in the Brigham Young Collection, LDS Archives, as cited by David John Buerger in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Spring 1982, page 29).

The Mormon Church's own publication, Latter-Day Saints' Millennial Star, clearly stated that the Adam-God doctrine was the word of the Lord:

. . . Adam is our Father and God, . . . the prophet and Apostle Brigham Young has declared it. . . . it is the word of the Lord (vol. 16, page 534).

Brigham Young was certainly not the only early Mormon leader who had a testimony to the doctrine. According to David John Buerger, Heber C. Kimball, a member of the First Presidency, claimed that,

"[T]he Lord told me that Adam was my father and that he was the God and father of all the inhabitants of this earth" (Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Spring 1982, page 27).
...Issue 49 - Salt Lake City Messenger
I am aware of the Adam God theory and what Brigham Young said about it. That being said it is not taught nor is it our belief. More on this at Mormonism and doctrine/Repudiated concepts/Adam-God theory - FairMormon
 
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He is the way

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Broken record syndrome---The creator of anything is not counted amongst his creations. All the dresses of a certain designer are created by him/or her. The designer is not counted as a part of his designs. A room full of pottery is created by the same potter---the potter is not counted as part of the pottery. This is just basic. Jesus created everything. He is not counted as part of the creation. Jesus created Lucifer.
Had Jesus not breathed life into Adam and Eve, they would still be a pile of dust. Spirit means breath. It is where pneumo comes from, like pneumonia, dealing with the lungs. The breath goes back to God who gave it. As Jesus was dyeing, He commanded His breath back to God. It is what brings life, without breath, there is no life. It is the same breath that is in every living thing---in the waters, land, air. From the ant to the elephant and the whale---their spirit is the breath of God. The same breath that brought life to man.
What is breath if not matter?:

(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 5:1 - 10)

1 FOR we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

My belief in the spirit (ghost) is very different than what you believe. Jesus did not create spirits, they are eternal.
 
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He is the way

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So, who are the elohim and the sons of elohim mentioned in these verses and also in Gen 6:2; Deu 32:8; Psa 82:6; etc. Are they pre-mortal spirits or exalted beings from a previous creation?

I asked this question several times already and haven't received an answer.
They are pre-mortal spirits and/or mortal sons of God.
 
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mmksparbud

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What is breath if not matter?:

(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 5:1 - 10)

1 FOR we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.
5 Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

My belief in the spirit (ghost) is very different than what you believe. Jesus did not create spirits, they are eternal.


LOL!! Believe whatever nonsense yo0u want. Jesus created everything. And as for eternal, the bible is clear, not that it makes any difference to you, JS is right about everything:

1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

We are not created immortal, we were created to have immortality.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

They had to be removed from the garden---else they would have lived forever in sin. We are given the Tree of life back, after the resurrection:

Rev_2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Rev_22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Eternal life is a gift from God, not a right of birth!!

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Non of your prophets have ever told you the truth of the bible. They don't know it to tell it.
 
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mmksparbud

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So, what are the "priesthoods" of Satan? Why do LDS imitate Satan in wearing aprons, even after death? Why are they thankful for the Fall?


They are thankful for the fall, for they believe God was not able to have Adam and Eve conceive chioldren until after the fell---So they HAD to go against God, in order to have children!! Though God commanded fior all creatures to be fruitful and multiply, The bible does not record them having sex until after the fall----so therefore, God was too inept to have His commands followed!!
In other words---they had to sin in order to obey God!!! That is why they insist Adam and Eve did not sin at the fall!! They were doing what God wanted them to do, otherwise they would have been there still----without any children!!!
 
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Ironhold

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It has been awhile since I heard or read Schnoebelen's name.
http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/pdfnewsletters/64saltlakecitymessenger.pdf
Issue 67 - Salt Lake City Messenger
Issue 65 - Salt Lake City Messenger
The Lucifer-God Doctrine ****
Problems in the Godmakers II

William Schnoebelen (1949–) is a fundamentalist Christian who claims to have been (amongst other things) a Satanist, a Freemason, a member of the Illuminati, and a vampire.

William Schnoebelen - RationalWiki

Welcome to With One Accord Ministries - Christianity and the Bible, Witchcraft, Satanism.

Anti-Masonic Examples: Bill Schnoebelen

An apologist with the website Masonic Info sat down and tried to construct a timeline of his life based on what he said in each of his books.

According to the apologist, they quickly discovered that different books had such radically different timelines that reconciling many of them was impossible as they simply contradicted themselves too much.

Their ultimate conclusion is that either his memory is incredibly poor (making him unreliable when it comes to everything else he says) or he's being dishonest about what group he was with when and is making things up as he goes.
 
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Peter1000

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So, what are the "priesthoods" of Satan? Why do LDS imitate Satan in wearing aprons, even after death? Why are they thankful for the Fall?
This is a sacred ceremony and someone has lied many times to get into the room and take pictures, and has come out of that ceremony with information that is a lie.

They went in on a lie, and they are lying now to you, if you think for one moment we would give thanks to satan for anything. Think about it just for one second and you will know it is a lie.

We follow Jesus Christ and the temple ceremony is all about him. There is a segment that shows satans roll in the fall also. But you really cannot study Jesus without knowing somewhat of satan. Right? Satan was in Jesus's way all the way through his earthly ministry and finally was able to create such confusion in the hearts of men that men actually killed the Son of God on a tortureous cross.

Could Jesus have withstood satan, yes. Did he stand in satan's way when it come to the crusification, no. satan in his stupidity did exactly what Jesus wanted him to do and in so doing he closed the book on himself.

Are we grateful for satan for the death of Jesus? Think about it? The answer is no. We have nothing to do with him. But Jesus used him to stir up the hearts of the people to such a high passion that they were actually able to kill Jesus on a cross, just what Jesus needed to atone for the sins of all mankind, and stop satan in his tracks.

So let's go back to the garden. Why did God allow satan to enter the garden and confuse Eve? Tell me why?
 
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Peter1000

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They are thankful for the fall, for they believe God was not able to have Adam and Eve conceive chioldren until after the fell---So they HAD to go against God, in order to have children!! Though God commanded fior all creatures to be fruitful and multiply, The bible does not record them having sex until after the fall----
so therefore, God was too inept to have His commands followed!!
In other words---they had to sin in order to obey God!!! That is why they insist Adam and Eve did not sin at the fall!! They were doing what God wanted them to do, otherwise they would have been there still----without any children!!!

mmksparbud says:
so therefore, God was too inept to have His commands followed!!

Wow God was too inept to have His commands followed. Are you kidding? Does everyone in the world today follow God's commands? So according to you, God is way inept for billions upon billions of people do not even recognize that there is a God, let alone even try to know or keep His commandments.

Are you sure you want to call God inept for people not keeping His commandments? I don't think so!!!!
 
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He is the way

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LOL!! Believe whatever nonsense yo0u want. Jesus created everything. And as for eternal, the bible is clear, not that it makes any difference to you, JS is right about everything:

1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

We are not created immortal, we were created to have immortality.

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

They had to be removed from the garden---else they would have lived forever in sin. We are given the Tree of life back, after the resurrection:

Rev_2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Rev_22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Eternal life is a gift from God, not a right of birth!!

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Non of your prophets have ever told you the truth of the bible. They don't know it to tell it.
Our bodies were created, but our spirits are eternal. Jesus body was also created, but His spirit wasn't. We know that Christ's spirit is eternal and existed before the earth did. Our spirits are also eternal, as is the Father who sent Jesus.
 
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mmksparbud

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mmksparbud says:


Wow God was too inept to have His commands followed. Are you kidding? Does everyone in the world today follow God's commands? So according to you, God is way inept for billions upon billions of people do not even recognize that there is a God, let alone even try to know or keep His commandments.

Are you sure you want to call God inept for people not keeping His commandments? I don't think so!!!!

That is what you are saying when you claim that Adam and Eve would never had been able to have children unless they fell. We've had this discussion countless times. God said be fruitful and multiply---He did not say---but only if you don't do what I say. Can't you see how foolish that is?? God gives a command but they can't do as He says! Seriously? That makes God's commands useless. How inept of a God you make of Him! I am not calling Him that, you are implying it!!

You have them sin in order to obey!! Foolish. I don't care that you do not consider what they did a sin! The bible says they sinned and that settles the question. God said if they ate they would die---they disobeyed. That is sin. Transgression is sin. Your prophets do not tell the truth.
 
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mmksparbud

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Our bodies were created, but our spirits are eternal. Jesus body was also created, but His spirit wasn't. We know that Christ's spirit is eternal and existed before the earth did. Our spirits are also eternal, as is the Father who sent Jesus.

What part of only do yo0u not understand?

1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
 
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He is the way

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What part of only do yo0u not understand?

1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
We are not yet immortal like Jesus Christ, we are mortal and we will die and then become immortal:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:50 - 54)

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Jesus Christ has an immortal resurrected body, and we will too. Christ was the first fruits of those who sleep.

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:20)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
 
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mmksparbud

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We are not yet immortal like Jesus Christ, we are mortal and we will die and then become immortal:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:50 - 54)

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Jesus Christ has an immortal resurrected body, and we will too. Christ was the first fruits of those who sleep.

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 15:20)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.


Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 
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Andrewn

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This is a sacred ceremony and someone has lied many times to get into the room and take pictures, and has come out of that ceremony with information that is a lie.
I understand that you would not give thanks to Satan for anything. But what are a Satan's priesthoods? Are they pre-Christians pagan priesthoods? Are they pre-Christian Jewish priesthoods? Are they Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, or Masonic priesthoods? Are they something that he had or imagined that he had before creation of the world? Are they something that he still has and by which he leads people astray and leads them to the Spirit Prison / Hades?

Could Jesus have withstood satan, yes. Did he stand in satan's way when it come to the crusification, no. satan in his stupidity did exactly what Jesus wanted him to do and in so doing he closed the book on himself.

Are we grateful for satan for the death of Jesus? Think about it? The answer is no. We have nothing to do with him. But Jesus used him to stir up the hearts of the people to such a high passion that they were actually able to kill Jesus on a cross, just what Jesus needed to atone for the sins of all mankind, and stop satan in his tracks.
How do you understand Jesus' atonement, especially in view of Heb 9:22, 1Jo 2:2, Col 2:15, and Rev 12:9? I'm intentionally not quoting the verses so you can use any translation you like.

So let's go back to the garden. Why did God allow satan to enter the garden and confuse Eve? Tell me why?
Good question. By the same token why did God allow Satan to attend the council of the sons of elohim in Job 2? I don't believe there is a satisfactory Christian answer. What I personally see is the possibility that in some sense some rebellious arche (rulers / princes) and exousia (authorities / powers) had to be conquered by mankind, by Jesus the representative of mankind. I could be completely wrong, but I think that before His sacrifice, Satan had the ability to be in the Garden.

Christians believe the rebellious arche and exousia are part of a previous creation (God created angels before creating the world). Would Mormons admit the possibility that they were part of a previous creation (perhaps by another God?) This is a big issue. What's your explanation?
 
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He is the way

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Then why is BY not denounced as a false prophet? He fails the Biblical prophet test big time by claiming God revealed the Adam-God "doctrine".
Nobody is perfect except Jesus Christ. That being said Brigham Young thought that it was revealed to Joseph Smith.
 
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Nobody is perfect except Jesus Christ. That being said Brigham Young thought that it was revealed to Joseph Smith.
Incorrect. BY did not just "think" it was revealed, he declared it was so, saying it was "doctrine" from the Lord. Re-read the evidence. From LDS sources no less. The only conclusion a rational person should come to is that BY was a false prophet.
 
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