LDS What major translation problems do LDS see in the Bible?

[He is the way]

Of course, both are false prophets.

Saying they are false prophets does not make it so.

 

[mmksparbud]

Saying they are false prophets does not make it so.

LOL!! You just proved it, you just can't face the reality of it and are hiding from the obvious. Some day, it will reach out and grab you!

 

[Ran77]

Why did God allow satan to enter the garden and confuse Eve? Tell me why?

That does seem to confound mainstream Christianity.

 

[Andrewn]

That does seem to confound mainstream Christianity.

I already answered in post #176. Can you answer that post? I doubt it.

 

[He is the way]

LOL!! You just proved it, you just can't face the reality of it and are hiding from the obvious. Some day, it will reach out and grab you!

Unless a prophet says thus sayeth the Lord, it is not a prophecy.

 

[mmksparbud]

Unless a prophet says thus sayeth the Lord, it is not a prophecy.

That is exactly what your prophets have said---and it was false. So they are false prophets.

 

[He is the way]

That is exactly what your prophets have said---and it was false. So they are false prophets.

Every time they said "thus sayeth the Lord" it was true.

 

[Peter1000]

So, who are the elohim and the sons of elohim mentioned in these verses and also in Gen 6:2; Deu 32:8; Psa 82:6; etc. Are they pre-mortal spirits or exalted beings from a previous creation?

I asked this question several times already and haven't received an answer.

Elohim is a long line of righteous and holy men who attained to Godhood. Hence Gods.
We know of them, they had a part in the planning period of our earth, but we do not dwell on them, because one of them was chosen to be our God. He we worship and He we are bound to for all eternity.
If in the eternities we come in contact with other Gods, then so be it. We will never lose our association to our Creator, our God and our Father.

The sons of God in Job 1, 2, & 38 are different than the sons of God in Genesis 6:2. In Job, he is being given information about the pre-mortal spirits and these spirit sons of God meeting with God before the earth was finished.

The sons of God in Genesis 6:2 is referring to men on earth. We believe this scripture can be answered this way: There was a division between the sons and daughters of Adam. Those that believe in the God of Adam, and those that did not. Those that did not was far more than those that did.

The sons of Adam that did not believe were called the "sons of Adam, or the sons of men". Those sons who did believe were called "the sons of God". And in Genesis 6:2, we are told that these sons of God basically went over to the non-believing side. They took daughters of men to wed, instead of taking daughters of God. They made a hugh mistake and left the colony of Adam and the other sons of God and went away amongst the sons of men.

Deut. 32:6 are talking about the sons of Adam and how the lands were divided. Mainly non-believing sons of Adam. The mention of the Children of Israel and Jacobs lot is the Lords, is the long line of men since Adam that were still considered the sons of God, or those that believe in the God of Adam.

Psalms 82:6 is referring to doctrine that: we are the children of God, therefore, we are gods (in embryo).

There is your answer. Thanks for the discussion.

 

[Peter1000]

I understand that you would not give thanks to Satan for anything. But what are a Satan's priesthoods? Are they pre-Christians pagan priesthoods? Are they pre-Christian Jewish priesthoods? Are they Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, or Masonic priesthoods? Are they something that he had or imagined that he had before creation of the world? Are they something that he still has and by which he leads people astray and leads them to the Spirit Prison / Hades?


How do you understand Jesus' atonement, especially in view of Heb 9:22, 1Jo 2:2, Col 2:15, and Rev 12:9? I'm intentionally not quoting the verses so you can use any translation you like.


Good question. By the same token why did God allow Satan to attend the council of the sons of elohim in Job 2? I don't believe there is a satisfactory Christian answer. What I personally see is the possibility that in some sense some rebellious arche (rulers / princes) and exousia (authorities / powers) had to be conquered by mankind, by Jesus the representative of mankind. I could be completely wrong, but I think that before His sacrifice, Satan had the ability to be in the Garden.

Christians believe the rebellious arche and exousia are part of a previous creation (God created angels before creating the world). Would Mormons admit the possibility that they were part of a previous creation (perhaps by another God?) This is a big issue. What's your explanation?

Satan cannot have the true priesthood of God that came down through Adam. So he made up his own priesthood, like a proto-pagan priesthood. The Jewish priesthood was a real priesthood ordained by God to Moses and to Aaron.

Jesus brought with him a new pristhood, not based on Aaron, but on Melchisedek, a higher priesthood. God had made Jesus a priest forever after the order of Melchisedek before Jesus was incarnated and came on his earthly mission.

It is this priesthood, along with the keys, that JS and OC were ordained to by Peter, James, and John so that the church had the full power of God to organize and grow the Church of Jesus Christ in these latter days.

Only through the shedding of the blood of Jesus Christ was the atonement possible.

The answer is: God knew that in order for the spirit children to come to earth, there needed to be a "fall". That is why He planted a gorgeous tree of good and evil right in the middle of the garden, and why he allowed satan to come into the garden to confuse Eve so she would transgress and partake of the fruit and initiate the fall.

I say transgress, rather than sin, because a transgression has a deception element to it that sin does not. Satan lied to Eve and confused her, and therefore she partook, having been deceived.

We do not believe in having anything to do with other creations. Most of the time when we talk of angels, we are talking about the spirit children of God awaiting their time on earth. Other angels were prepared by God to help Him administer, and govern the earth.

 

[mmksparbud]

Every time they said "thus sayeth the Lord" it was true.

So, then Adam is God?

 

[He is the way]

So, then Adam is God?

It wasn't a prophesy. Brigham Young did not say "thus sayeth the Lord" Adam is our God. Adam may be a God now, Jesus said:
(New Testament | John 10:34 - 35)

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

 

[mmksparbud]

It wasn't a prophesy. Brigham Young did not say "thus sayeth the Lord" Adam is our God. Adam may be a God now, Jesus said:
(New Testament | John 10:34 - 35)

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

He said he knew for a fact that is who God is. He claimed to haver his information from God, so don't give me this baloney of he did not say "Thus sayeth the Lord!" He said he was a prophet of God, his knowledge came from God so then he lied, plain and simple. If you can not trust the prophet, then throw him out! What good is he if he is not telling the truth!!

 

[Rescued One]

So, what are the "priesthoods" of Satan? Why do LDS imitate Satan in wearing aprons, even after death? Why are they thankful for the Fall?

Regarding the Fall:

Adam and Eve were innocent in the Garden of Eden, not knowing good and evil and not feeling any shame or embarrassment over their nakedness. These are emotions that came after the Fall. Adam and Eve were much like little children who are naturally naive and trusting and lacking self-consciousness and knowledge of good and evil because they are innocent.
Moses 3:1–25


Elder Dallin H. Oaks of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles said: “Satan’s method of assuring ‘that one soul shall not be lost’ (Moses 4:1) would be to ‘destroy the agency of man’ (Moses 4:3). Under his plan, Satan would have been our master, and he would have ‘[led us] captive at his will’ (Moses 4:4). Without the power of choice, we would have been mere robots or puppets in his hands” (“Free Agency and Freedom,” in Monte S. Nyman and Charles D. Tate Jr., eds., The Book of Mormon: Second Nephi, The Doctrinal Structure [1989], 4)...

Moses 4:6. Satan Does Not Know the Mind of God

Elder James E. Talmage (1862–1933) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles explained that Satan actually “furthered the purposes of the Creator by tempting Eve; yet his design was to thwart the Lord’s plan. We are definitely told that ‘he knew not the mind of God, wherefore he sought to destroy the world.’ [Moses 4:6.] Yet his diabolical effort, far from being the initiatory step toward destruction, contributed to the plan of man’s eternal progression” (The Articles of Faith, 12th ed. [1924], 69).

Moses 4:7–19
“It was Eve who first transgressed the limits of Eden in order to initiate the conditions of mortality. Her act, whatever its nature, was formally a transgression but eternally a glorious necessity to open the doorway toward eternal life. Adam showed his wisdom by doing the same. And thus Eve and ‘Adam fell that men might be’ [2 Nephi 2:25].

“Some Christians condemn Eve for her act, concluding that she and her daughters are somehow flawed by it. Not the Latter-day Saints! Informed by revelation, we celebrate Eve’s act and honor her wisdom and courage in the great episode, called the Fall. … Brigham Young declared, ‘We should never blame Mother Eve, not the least’ (in Journal of Discourses, 13:145). Elder Joseph Fielding Smith said: ‘I never speak of the part Eve took in this fall as a sin, nor do I accuse Adam of a sin. … This was a transgression of the law, but not a sin … for it was something that Adam and Eve had to do!’ [Doctrines of Salvation, 1:114–15]” (“The Great Plan of Happiness,” Ensign, Nov. 1993, 73).
Moses 4:1–19

 

[He is the way]

He said he knew for a fact that is who God is. He claimed to haver his information from God, so don't give me this baloney of he did not say "Thus sayeth the Lord!" He said he was a prophet of God, his knowledge came from God so then he lied, plain and simple. If you can not trust the prophet, then throw him out! What good is he if he is not telling the truth!!

It was Brigham's belief and he claimed he heard it from Joseph Smith but I believe he misunderstood what Joseph Smith said. There is no record that Joseph Smith taught that doctrine. Isaiah made a prophesy that did not happen, so should he have been thrown out also?

 

[mmksparbud]

It was Brigham's belief and he claimed he heard it from Joseph Smith but I believe he misunderstood what Joseph Smith said. There is no record that Joseph Smith taught that doctrine. Isaiah made a prophesy that did not happen, so should he have been thrown out also?

What prophecy was that?

 

[He is the way]

What prophecy was that?

Isaiah prophesied that Hezekiah would die and not live, however he lived another fifteen years.

 

[mmksparbud]

Isaiah prophesied that Hezekiah would die and not live, however he lived another fifteen years.

That was not a failed prophecy at all!! Hezekiah cried and begged the Lord and it clearly states that God granted Him another 15 years!

 

[He is the way]

That was not a failed prophecy at all!! Hezekiah cried and begged the Lord and it clearly states that God granted Him another 15 years!

So you are saying that prophecies are not set in stone? Okay good to know.

 

[mmksparbud]

So you are saying that prophecies are not set in stone? Okay good to know.

God made the decision to grant Him the extra 154 years because Hezekiah had requested it. It wads not a failed prophecy! God is sovereign. He also did not wipe out Nineveh--got a problem with that also?
It was not a false prophecy. God hears the requests of the penitent. It is not a case of---there are people living on the sun! It is not a case of some idiot lying through his teeth! God told Isaiah Hezekiah would die, He also said He would grant Him 15 extra years. Nobody but JS and BY lied!!

 

[He is the way]

God made the decision to grant Him the extra 154 years because Hezekiah had requested it. It wads not a failed prophecy! God is sovereign. He also did not wipe out Nineveh--got a problem with that also?
It was not a false prophecy. God hears the requests of the penitent. It is not a case of---there are people living on the sun! It is not a case of some idiot lying through his teeth! God told Isaiah Hezekiah would die, He also said He would grant Him 15 extra years. Nobody but JS and BY lied!!

Joseph Smith was not a false prophet, the Book of Mormon is proof of that. And what about Peter, is he the devil