What kind of Free Will did Jonah have?

[redleghunter]

I would say we can file this in the “God’s Will will be done.”

Jonah 1: NASB

1The word of the LORD came to Jonah the son of Amittai saying, 2“Arise, go to Nineveh the great city and cry against it, for their wickedness has come up before Me.” 3But Jonah rose up to flee to Tarshish from the presence of the LORD. So he went down to Joppa, found a ship which was going to Tarshish, paid the fare and went down into it to go with them to Tarshish from the presence of the LORD.

4The LORD hurled a great wind on the sea and there was a great storm on the sea so that the ship was about to break up. 5Then the sailors became afraid and every man cried to his god, and they threw the cargo which was in the ship into the sea to lighten it for them. But Jonah had gone below into the hold of the ship, lain down and fallen sound asleep. 6So the captain approached him and said, “How is it that you are sleeping? Get up, call on your god. Perhaps your god will be concerned about us so that we will not perish.”

7Each man said to his mate, “Come, let us cast lots so we may learn on whose account this calamity has struck us.” So they cast lots and the lot fell on Jonah.8Then they said to him, “Tell us, now! On whose account has this calamity struckus? What is your occupation? And where do you come from? What is your country? From what people are you?” 9He said to them, “I am a Hebrew, and I fear the LORDGod of heaven who made the sea and the dry land.”

10Then the men became extremely frightened and they said to him, “How could you do this?” For the men knew that he was fleeing from the presence of the LORD, because he had told them. 11So they said to him, “What should we do to you that the sea may become calm for us?”—for the sea was becoming increasingly stormy. 12He said to them, “Pick me up and throw me into the sea. Then the sea will become calm for you, for I know that on account of me this great storm has come upon you.”13However, the men rowed desperately to return to land but they could not, for the sea was becoming even stormier against them. 14Then they called on the LORD and said, “We earnestly pray, O LORD, do not let us perish on account of this man’s life and do not put innocent blood on us; for You, O LORD, have done as You have pleased.”

15So they picked up Jonah, threw him into the sea, and the sea stopped its raging. 16Then the men feared the LORDgreatly, and they offered a sacrifice to the LORD and made vows.

17And the LORD appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was in the stomach of the fish three days and three nights.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The story of Jonah actually teaches free will if you look at the recipients (the Ninevites) of Jonah's message. It was not until God had seen the Ninevites had forsaken their evil ways is when God decided to no longer bring wrath upon them anymore. So if it was ordained that God was going to destroy them, why was it averted? Was God just using a scare tactic? Was God not really going to destroy them? Or was the judgment and wrath the Jonah preached real?

 

[redleghunter]

The story of Jonah actually teaches free will if you look at the recipients (the Ninevites) of Jonah's message. It was not until God had seen the Ninevites had forsaken their evil ways is when God decided to no longer bring wrath upon them anymore. So if it was ordained that God was going to destroy them, why was it averted? Was God just using a scare tactic? Was God not really going to destroy them? Or was the judgment and wrath the Jonah preached real?

Good questions. What about Jonah?

 

[Jonaitis]

Jonah's plans were thwarted by God's purpose for Nineveh. Amazing how God will use anyone, even stubborn and rebellious people, to fulfill his will.

 

[HTacianas]

I would say we can file this in the “God’s Will will be done.”

Jonah 1: NASB

1The word of the LORD came to Jonah the son of Amittai saying, 2“Arise, go to Nineveh the great city and cry against it, for their wickedness has come up before Me.” 3But Jonah rose up to flee to Tarshish from the presence of the LORD. So he went down to Joppa, found a ship which was going to Tarshish, paid the fare and went down into it to go with them to Tarshish from the presence of the LORD.

4The LORD hurled a great wind on the sea and there was a great storm on the sea so that the ship was about to break up. 5Then the sailors became afraid and every man cried to his god, and they threw the cargo which was in the ship into the sea to lighten it for them. But Jonah had gone below into the hold of the ship, lain down and fallen sound asleep. 6So the captain approached him and said, “How is it that you are sleeping? Get up, call on your god. Perhaps your god will be concerned about us so that we will not perish.”

7Each man said to his mate, “Come, let us cast lots so we may learn on whose account this calamity has struck us.” So they cast lots and the lot fell on Jonah.8Then they said to him, “Tell us, now! On whose account has this calamity struckus? What is your occupation? And where do you come from? What is your country? From what people are you?” 9He said to them, “I am a Hebrew, and I fear the LORDGod of heaven who made the sea and the dry land.”

10Then the men became extremely frightened and they said to him, “How could you do this?” For the men knew that he was fleeing from the presence of the LORD, because he had told them. 11So they said to him, “What should we do to you that the sea may become calm for us?”—for the sea was becoming increasingly stormy. 12He said to them, “Pick me up and throw me into the sea. Then the sea will become calm for you, for I know that on account of me this great storm has come upon you.”13However, the men rowed desperately to return to land but they could not, for the sea was becoming even stormier against them. 14Then they called on the LORD and said, “We earnestly pray, O LORD, do not let us perish on account of this man’s life and do not put innocent blood on us; for You, O LORD, have done as You have pleased.”

15So they picked up Jonah, threw him into the sea, and the sea stopped its raging. 16Then the men feared the LORDgreatly, and they offered a sacrifice to the LORD and made vows.

17And the LORD appointed a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was in the stomach of the fish three days and three nights.

Actually Jonah exercised his free will in refusing at first to go to Ninevah. Of course God then coerced him into going so this might end up a half full/half empty argument, but Jonah did at first exercise his own will.

 

[redleghunter]

Actually Jonah exercised his free will in refusing at first to go to Ninevah. Of course God then coerced him into going so this might end up a half full/half empty argument, but Jonah did at first exercise his own will.

A very hard lesson no doubt.

The will and purpose of God will not be thwarted is something we can take away from this.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Do you think Jonah was disobeying God by running away?
What is disobedience to God?
It is sin, right?
Does God ever want anyone to sin?
No.
So Jonah had free will to violate God's will.
Yes, God forced him back to shore, but Jonah was not a rag doll moving about by the Lord's command after he came out of the great fish. God did not force Jonah to speak against his own free will. Jonah could have still refused. But he didn't. Jonah excercised his free will to agree with God's will. So yeah, God did not force Jonah to rebell anymore than he chose Him to obey. Sure, God might have nudged Him in a strong way to go back to preach to the Ninevites, but it was still up to Jonah to preach to them still.

 

[Sabertooth]

Sanctified free will is only in effect when God hasn't given you any specific instructions to perform.

Free will that deliberately disregards God's will is sin.

So, in effect, Jesus came to deliver us from the darker aspects of "free will."

The question in the OP isn't too different from God shutting down the Tower of Babel project.

 

[redleghunter]

Do you think Jonah was disobeying God by running away?
What is disobedience to God?
It is sin, right?
Does God ever want anyone to sin?
No.
So Jonah had free will to violate God's will.
Yes, God forced him back to shore, but Jonah was not a rag doll moving about by the Lord's command. God did not force Jonah to speak against his own free will. Jonah could have still refused. But he didn't. Jonah excercised his free will to agree with God's will. So yeah, God did not force Jonah to rebell anymore than he chose Him to obey. Sure, God might have nudged Him in a strong way to go back to preach to the Ninevites, but it was still up to Jonah to preach to them still.

Yes I do agree we all freely choose within the very nature we have.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It still amazes me how people can believe there is no such thing as free will. It's like they are reading a different Bible than me.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes I do agree we all freely choose within the very nature we have.

God gives opportunities to do the right thing in choosing Him and in not sinning.
Genesis 4:7 is one example of God telling Cain that he had a choice to either do good or to sin. God says to the Israelites in Deuteronomy 30:19, I set before you life and death, therefore choose life so that you may live. Do I believe God enables these opportunities? Yes, but it is an enabling to either accept or reject God in this life.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I mean, you have to see the false logic in God pulling all the strings. If God was the One who chose some people to remain unsaved, then nobody could be blamed for their sinful state. They cannot help but to sin because it is the only choice that they ever had. So by this: One is accusing God of creating beings whereby they are only sinful and yet... somehow God judges them. That just doesn't seem fair or just of God to do that. But the Bible repeatedly says God is a fair and good judge. The false logic of Calvinism is sort of like one saying there is going to be a judgment for wolves. But why? They are only doing what is within their nature to do.

 

[Jonaitis]

If God was the One who chose some people to remain unsaved, then nobody could be blamed for their sinful state.

But, if we are sinful and rebellious creatures, who resist and rebel against God's will, then wouldn't God leaving us to die in our sins still make us responsible? When is God ever obligated to save anyone?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The problem with Calvinism is that it seeks to paint God in a bad light (with God pulling all the strings). For who is the author of evil? Man or God? According to Calvinism, God chooses some to remain unsaved (i.e. to be evil as their only choice because that is His will). *Sigh* .... As if evil is ever God's will. Sure, God can use bad things for His greater plan for good, but God never intends for anyone to sin or do wrong. Therein lies the problem with Calvinism.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But, if we are sinful and rebellious creatures, who resist and rebel against God's will, then wouldn't God leaving us to die in our sins still make us responsible? When is God ever obligated to save anyone?

So you are saying we chose of our free will to rebel against God?
Or are you saying that God just created us as already rebellious creatures?

 

[redleghunter]

Sanctified free will is only in effect when God hasn't given you any specific instructions to perform.

Free will that deliberately disregards God's will is sin.

So, in effect, Jesus came to deliver us from the darker aspects of "free will."

In the case of Jonah he was given a directed mission, ran and suffered the consequences of thinking he could out run God.

Sometimes I wonder “what was he thinking?”

 

[redleghunter]

The problem with Calvinism is that it seeks to paint God in a bad light (with God pulling all the strings). For who is the author of evil? Man or God? According to Calvinism, God chooses some to remain unsaved (i.e. to be evil as their only choice because that is His will). *Sigh* .... As if evil is ever God's will. Sure, God can use bad things for His greater plan for good, but God never intends for anyone to sin or do wrong. Therein lies the problem with Calvinism.

No one mentioned Calvinism.

Jonah ran and God slapped Jonah right back where He wanted him to be.

As Libertarian free will goes, apparently Jonah was not able to exercise it.

 

[redleghunter]

It still amazes me how people can believe there is no such thing as free will. It's like they are reading a different Bible than me.

Who said there is no free will. The OP question was “what kind?”

We do freely choose according to our natures.

 

[redleghunter]

God gives opportunities to do the right thing in choosing Him and in not sinning.
Genesis 4:7 is one example of God telling Cain that he had a choice to either do good or to sin. God says to the Israelites in Deuteronomy 30:19, I set before you life and death, therefore choose life so that you may live. Do I believe God enables these opportunities? Yes, but it is an enabling to either accept or reject God in this life.

And in both cases how did that work out?

 

[Jonaitis]

So you are saying we chose of our free will to rebel against God? Or are you saying that God just created us as already rebellious creatures?

Well, let's define what "free will" means. If you are talking about the power of choice, then God has made man moral agents who are created with a will to choose. Anyone who denies this hasn't read Scripture, and aren't in their right mind.

However, when "free will" is brought up in a discussion, like this, we are referring to the ability to choose what is spiritually good freely and willingly. Since the fall, we are all born with a nature enslaved to sin. We have a damaged and corrupt will that would rather choose to hate and rebel against God, than to love and serve him. In this case, we don't have a "free" will, we have a corrupt one.

If you are talking about the libertarian kind of will, that can be autonomous to God's sovereignty, you will struggle to justify this where Scripture clearly shows that God rules over all things, even in the actions of sinful people. Yes, they make willful and conscious choices, according to their nature, but that doesn't thwart the purposes and plans of God. The Jews had our Lord crucified on the cross, it was their willful choice to do this, yet they did not know that it was the very purpose of God in order for him to be offered up as the ultimate sacrifice for sin. God used the real choices of men for his foreordained purposes. He didn't merely see into the future, but established all that would happen for Jesus to die, establishing the fact that men would behave the way they did in his eternal decree.