What "kind" is it?

[LadyShea]

I thought we could do a little experiment with "kinds". First though, we need a good working definition of "kind". Could a YEC that believes there are barriers within kinds that cannot be crossed please provide your best definition of how an animal is classifed? Is it by appearance, mating, other characteristics?

 

[Didymus]

we are talking about kinds as in types of something right ?

 

[Arikay]

Yeah, groups of animals.

creationists say that animals cant evolve out of their "kind"

1st April 2003 at 03:22 PM Didymus said this in Post #2

we are talking about kinds as in types of something right ?

 

[LadyShea]

I guess so Didymus...I have been unable to get a definition of kind

 

[judy]

Well let's see. On Noah's ark, all the kinds must have been represented. So I imagine there is the "kitty cat" kind, the "horsey" kind, the "doggy" kind and the "birdy" kind.

Maybe the "icky scaley" kind and the "bug" kind too.

From these, all the species we know today evolved by micro-evolution!

It's really very simply, ladyshea.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Considering I've yet to see creationists ever rigidly define the term "kind", I'm not holding my breath.

(Mind you, I've seen some Christians equate "kind" with "species". Of course, these are typically people that accept evolution, including speciation.)

 

[LadyShea]

I started playing this game with Follower of Christ with this picture

And he guessed "Snake kind". Since this is a species of legless Lizard and not a snake, I was hoping a creationist could tell me what makes one animal a "snake kind" and one animal a "lizard kind" and what do we do with animals that seem to have characteristics of two different kinds?

I have several more examples of these "what the heck is that" animals and I think this could be an interesting demonstration for both sides.

And Judy...ROTFL...that sounds like my 4 yr old niece playing with her Noah's Ark bathtub toys

 

[Pete Harcoff]

I'd like to present a picture I made up for a discussion of "macroevolution" versus "microevolution" awhile back:

http://www.animecritic.com/_temp/cats.jpg

It's picture of 9 different members of the Felidae (cat) family. They're all separate species showing incredible diversity, but are all "cats" in the sense that they share a number of "cat" characteristics.

So, would all of these animals be of the same "kind"? If so, what characteristics do they possess that separates them from other members of the order Carnivora (other carnivores like dogs, etc). And, if not, how does one determine which characteristics define them as separate "kinds"?

 

[Arikay]

The third one in the top row looks like god was trying to mix bat and cat together.

1st April 2003 at 04:03 PM Pete Harcoff said this in Post #8

I'd like to present a picture I made up for a discussion of "macroevolution" versus "microevolution" awhile back:

http://www.animecritic.com/_temp/cats.jpg

It's picture of 9 different members of the Felidae (cat) family. They're all separate species showing incredible diversity, but are all "cats" in the sense that they share a number of characteristics.

So, would all of these animals be of the same "kind"? If so, what characteristics do they possess that separates them from other members of the order Carnivora (other carnivores like dogs, etc). And, if not, how does one determine which characteristics define them as a separate "kinds"?

 

[LadyShea]

Pete, what's the one in the bottom row middle?

Here's another interesting critter...what kind is it?

It has one posterior opening only through which is eliminates and reproduces called a cloaca, a characteristic shared only with fish, reptiles and amphibians. It also lays eggs like fish, reptiles, amphibians, and birds but they nurse their young like mammals, though rather than having teats, they ooze milk out of special glands.

 

[Didymus]

is that a platypus ? i didn t realize they had spines.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

The cat in the bottom middle is a Jaguarundi.

Here's a complete list of cats in that picture (from left to right, top to bottom):

Caracal (Caracal caracal)
Marbeled Cat (Pardofelis marmorata)
Sandcat (Felis margarita)
Flat-headed cat (Prionailurus planiceps)
Tiger (Panthera tigris)
Serval (Leptailarus serval)
Canadian Lynx (Lynx canadensis)
Jaguarundi (Herpailurus yaguarondi)
Asian Golden Cat (Catopuma temmincki)

 

[LadyShea]

1st April 2003 at 04:21 PM Didymus said this in Post #11

is that a platypus ? i didn t realize they had spines.

No, it is not a platypus.

 

[JohnR7]

1st April 2003 at 06:18 PM LadyShea said this in Post #1 

Is it by appearance, mating, other characteristics?

A dog is one kind of animal, a cat is another kind of animal. Dogs will always be dogs, cats will always be cats.

 

[judy]

It's an echidna! Along with the platypus, echidnas are monotremes. Very fascinating . . . could monotremes be the "missing link" between reptiles and mammals?

They're some of my favorite animals of all time.

 

[notto]

Hares - 24 pairs of Chromosomes

Domestic Rabbits - 22 pairs of Chromosomes

Cottontail - 21 pairs of chromosomes

Same Kind?

 

[Pete Harcoff]

1st April 2003 at 07:36 PM JohnR7 said this in Post #14

A dog is one kind of animal, a cat is another kind of animal.

Thank you, John, but I think we all went to grade school and can figure that out.

But what specific characteristics are used in distiguishing between "kinds"? In other words, why is a dog one "kind" of animal and a cat another "kind"?

 

[notto]

Horse - 32 pairs of Chromosomes

Donkey - 31 pairs of Chromosomes

Zebra - 22 pairs of Chromosomes

Same Kind?

 

[Arikay]

John, since you seem to know so much about kinds, can you please tell us what "kind" the pictured animals are?

1st April 2003 at 04:36 PM JohnR7 said this in Post #14



A dog is one kind of animal, a cat is another kind of animal. Dogs will always be dogs, cats will always be cats.

 

[judy]

Obviously, if these three bunnies and those three horsies are the same "kind," that would make all the great apes (man included) the same "kind" as well.