What it means to have dead faith

[FreeGrace2]

Freegrace: "OK, thanks for making clear that you haven't read the 2 verses. It says NOTHING about Gentiles "justified in Christ". You just keep making up stuff.

They "do BY NATURE things required by the law"."

Three verses, and then verse 13 says, the doers of the law shall be justified.

Continue on in Romans 3 and you will READ that NO ONE will be justified by the law.

Rom 3:9,10 -
9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

It seems you didn't even know about the rest of Romans 3, huh.

Showing the law written in their hearts ( cant write it in themselves, it is written by the Holy Ghost)..

It doesn't say that. That's just your opinion getting in the way again.

 

[FreeGrace2]

In Heb 5:9, what is the condition and what is the result?
Does the verse say that those who are saved will obey?
Or does it say that those who obey will be saved?
“And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,”
Salvation goes to those who obey. Or,
Obedience comes from those who are saved.

Answer honestly this simple question.
Tell me what SCRIPTURE says.

Please explain to me how you would have answered the jailer who asked Paul what he MUST DO to be saved? Acts 16:30,31

Second, consider what Jesus said in John 8-
37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.
38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

Please explain what Jesus said to these unbelievers.

 

[prophecy_uk]

Freegrace: "Continue on in Romans 3 and you will READ that NO ONE will be justified by the law.

Rom 3:9,10 -
9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,freegrce: "



They are justified then, by the law written in their hearts, which is the new covenant and the law of Christ ( through the Holy Spirit being given into them)..


Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

 

[prophecy_uk]

Freegrace: "Please explain to me how you would have answered the jailer who asked Paul what he MUST DO to be saved? Acts 16:30,31"



Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.




[URL='https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20John%203%3A23&version=KJV']1 John 3:23
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment[/URL]

.
Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.




"Second, consider what Jesus said in John 8-
37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.
38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

Please explain what Jesus said to these unbelievers."



John 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.


John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

 

[Doug Brents]

Obey and be saved. Fine. I never denied that. (Oh, but you have repeatedly) But given every other verse on salvation, it is obvious to rational people that in this verse "obey" means to believe Jesus.

Ok, so obedience comes before salvation is received. Just as Eph 2:8 says, grace comes to us THROUGH faith. Faith comes first, and through faith we receive salvation.

But as to you assertion that belief is the only thing that constitutes obedience that leads to salvation, let’s look at Acts 2:38.

Earlier, you brought up what Paul said to the jailer in answer to his question about what to do to be saved. Here in Acts 2:38 the same question is asked. But a dramatically different answer is given.
Acts 2:37-38 - “Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”

38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

What does Peter say these people, the ones who 2 months (50 days) earlier were actively calling for Jesus’ crucifixion? Repent (turn from your sinful life)(notice that verse 37 says they already believe, they were “cut to the heart”), and be baptized. Why? In order to receive forgiveness from sin. And what is another result of repentance and baptism? You will receive the gift (the indwelling) of the Holy Spirit.

This is why I say that what Paul told the jailer was not all of what was taught to the jailer. Acts 16:32 says that Paul went on to tell the jailer about Jesus, and what was required to be saved, and then he baptized the jailer (in accordance with what Peter told the Jews on Pentecost, and with what Jesus told the Apostles as He ascended back to Heaven in Mark 16:16).

 

[FreeGrace2]

Freegrace: "Continue on in Romans 3 and you will READ that NO ONE will be justified by the law.

Rom 3:9,10 -
9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin.
10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,
23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,freegrce: "
--------------------------------------------------------
They are justified then, by the law written in their hearts, which is the new covenant and the law of Christ ( through the Holy Spirit being given into them)

No, no one is justified by the law, whether by the scrolls or "written in their hearts".

What Paul was describing is one's CONSCIENCE by which to be aware of right and wrong.

Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


Hebrews 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

It would be helpful if you would provide some explanation of your verses, since NONE of them state what you believe. Because of that, you need to provide explanation so others can at least see where you are coming from.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Freegrace: "Please explain to me how you would have answered the jailer who asked Paul what he MUST DO to be saved? Acts 16:30,31"
Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
------------------------------------------------
1 John 3:23
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment

OK, here it is. Believing in Jesus Christ. Which is a commandment.

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

This isn't about getting saved, or staying saved. It is about staying faithful.

I said:
"Second, consider what Jesus said in John 8-
37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.
38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

Please explain what Jesus said to these unbelievers."
-----------------------------------------------------

John 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Ok, you quoted the verse, but where is your explanation? Do you have one? Seems not.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Commands to believe.

So, you have basically agreed with me on this and your previous post. So why do you continue to be argumentative?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Ok, so obedience comes before salvation is received.

Again, to be clear, salvation comes when one obeys the commands to believe in Christ for salvation.

Just as Eph 2:8 says, grace comes to us THROUGH faith. Faith comes first, and through faith we receive salvation.

But as to you assertion that belief is the only thing that constitutes obedience that leads to salvation, let’s look at Acts 2:38.

Earlier, you brought up what Paul said to the jailer in answer to his question about what to do to be saved. Here in Acts 2:38 the same question is asked. But a dramatically different answer is given.
Acts 2:37-38 - “Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?”

38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”

What does Peter say these people, the ones who 2 months (50 days) earlier were actively calling for Jesus’ crucifixion?

Acts 2:38 is one of THE most misunderstood and twisted verses in Scripture. v.37 shows that this crowd WERE convicted already and realized that Jesus IS the Messiah. So, v.37 shows that the crowd were already SAVED, because they believed.

v.38 is what these people should do because of their previous sins. Yes, they needed to demonstrate their new faith to others. That's the purpose of water baptism.

As far as reception of the Holy Spirit, it was given to those already saved on the Day of pentecost. For the crowd in Acts 2:38, He was received when they demonstrated their faith, which followed salvation. Water baptism was NOT how they got saved.

Repent (turn from your sinful life)(notice that verse 37 says they already believe, they were “cut to the heart”), and be baptized. Why? In order to receive forgiveness from sin. And what is another result of repentance and baptism? You will receive the gift (the indwelling) of the Holy Spirit.

Keep in mind that at the very beginning of the church age, the reception of the Holy Spirit varied. Cornelius, a gentile, received the Spirit when he believed (Acts 10-11), but a group of gentile disciples didn't receive the Spirit until they were baptized in Jesus' name in Acts 19.

By the time Paul wrote Gal 3, there was uniformity: the Holy Spirit was received WHEN a person believed. v.2 and 5 prove it.

This is why I say that what Paul told the jailer was not all of what was taught to the jailer.

Rather, Paul told the jailer EXACTLY what he MUST DO to be saved. That is, believe on the Lord Jesus.

Acts 16:32 says that Paul went on to tell the jailer about Jesus, and what was required to be saved, and then he baptized the jailer (in accordance with what Peter told the Jews on Pentecost, and with what Jesus told the Apostles as He ascended back to Heaven in Mark 16:16).

Read v.32 again, and this time take note of WHO ELSE Paul spoke to: the jailer's family.

 

[Doug Brents]

Please explain to me how you would have answered the jailer who asked Paul what he MUST DO to be saved? Acts 16:30,31

Second, consider what Jesus said in John 8-
37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.
38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”

Please explain what Jesus said to these unbelievers.

I would have answered the jailer the same way Peter did the Jews on Pentecost. Which is the same way Paul answered the jailer, we are just not told the specific words Paul used when he “spoke the word of the Lord to him”

As for John 8:37-38, Jesus was saying He was a Prophet of God. The OT contains instruction on how to tell if a prophet’s message was from God or not. If the prophet could do a “work”, a sign or a wonder, on command (like Moses with the stick to a snake, and turning his hand to leprosy and back), and so long as his message did not oppose previous Scripture, then his message was from God. This is what the Pharisees were asking Jesus for in John 6:30.

In John 8:37-8, Jesus is telling them not to believe Him unless He has the requisite signs and wonders that a prophet of God would have. Further, He tells them, even if they don’t believe His message (even though it does not contradict previous Scripture), they should believe the signs and wonders, because they prove that He is not only a prophet, but also God in the flesh.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I would have answered the jailer the same way Peter did the Jews on Pentecost.

Even though the circumstances were totally different. Interesting. And this indicates that you do not agree with what Paul told the jailer. That is a wow.

Which is the same way Paul answered the jailer

Not even close.

we are just not told the specific words Paul used when he “spoke the word of the Lord to him”

You seem to keep misunderstanding the text.

30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house.

jailer's question in v.30
Paul's clear answer in v.31. btw, note that Paul included "his house" in his answer.
v.32 SHOWS clearly that Paul spoke to "all the otheres in his house".

So Paul told the others what he told the jailer.

You are only attempting to ADD to Scripture with opinion and presumption.

In John 8:37-8, Jesus is telling them not to believe Him unless He has the requisite signs and wonders that a prophet of God would have.

Actually, Jesus was making the point that He WAS performing miracles.

Further, He tells them, even if they don’t believe His message (even though it does not contradict previous Scripture), they should believe the signs and wonders, because they prove that He is not only a prophet, but also God in the flesh.[/QUOTE]
This is a command to believe, based on His miracles.

 

[Doug Brents]

Again, to be clear, salvation comes when one obeys the commands to believe in Christ for salvation.

That is like saying that the sign above Jesus’ head on the cross said, “The king of the Jews” only, as it says in Mark 15:26 (with no mention of what language it wells written in). But John 19:19-20 says the sign said, “‘JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS’.
20 … and it was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin.”

You see, not everything about an event is mentioned in every place that talks about that event, or topic, or person, or doctrinal subject.

 

[Doug Brents]

30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house.

jailer's question in v.30
Paul's clear answer in v.31. btw, note that Paul included "his house" in his answer.
v.32 SHOWS clearly that Paul spoke to "all the otheres in his house".

So Paul told the others what he told the jailer.

You are only attempting to ADD to Scripture with opinion and presumption.

You miss a couple of very key words here. Paul spoke the Word of the Lord TO HIM, and his household. The jailer had heard them praising God all night, but he had not yet heard the Gospel himself. He didn’t yet know what to believe in. He did not hear the Gospel until Paul “spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house.” At that point, immediately, they were all baptized.

 

[prophecy_uk]

Doug: "Ok, so obedience comes before salvation is received. Just as Eph 2:8 says, grace comes to us THROUGH faith. Faith comes first, and through faith we receive salvation."



Obedience is faith, and man cannot obey nor have faith, as it is the new covenant, you guys keep ignoring, that is written in the heart with the Spirit, to call on the Lord with, with a full heart of assurance of faith ( given by the faith of Christ)

Romans 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

 

[prophecy_uk]

Freegrace: "No, no one is justified by the law, whether by the scrolls or "written in their hearts"."



Lets see how it works for Christ then, to b justified in the Spirit..


1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


Freegrace states no justification, whether written in the heart.

The justification of Christ is by the Spirit.

In the flesh, He came with the law within His heart. Remember Freegrace statement: "no one is justified by the law, written in their hearts"

Jesus preached righteousness ( what law was in His heart) and the Lord did not hide the righteousness that was within His heart ( Gods law within His heart) but declared this faithfulness ( as this is the faith of Christ , Freegrace tries to deny, but can he acknowledge, or just ignore) how the law within the heart of Christ is the TRUTH..


Psalm 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
9 I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O Lord, thou knowest.
10 I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.



Freegrace so opposed to the covenant, but God puts His laws in our inward part, writing them in us, so that He is our God, so we be His people, that is to call and justify us in Him?


Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.



Every knee bows to God, to give account, if they did good or bad in their body, on judgement day.

Then we just read how the Lord puts His law in our hearts, to be our God and we His people, and then we understand in the Lord the seed of Israel shall be justified and shall glory..


Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
24 Surely, shall one say, in the Lord have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

Romans 14: 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.



Many verses and explanation for Freegrace to, ridicule, ignore and through contempt on. ( but they are predicted to turn the grace of God into lasciviousness)

Meanwhile, Christ calls us, justifies us, and glorifies us, ( which above is opposed by Freegrace of the law put into our hearts for God to be our God, and we His people and In the Lord we be justified)..


Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.



Gods teaching goes on over Freegrace's head.

The unrighteous inherit nothing, so they got washed, sanctified, justified by Christ ( who had the law within His heart and who Freegrace says, law in the heart justifies noone) and the law within us is what justifies the seed of Israel, and in God we shall be justified and glorified. We also cannot be justified without the Spirit of our God given into us. The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in those the law is put into, ( by God) otherwise they remain the unrighteous, who only oppose because of being coveteous, so they re the revilers..


1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.



1 Corinthians 6:11, said we were unclean, then are are washed, and sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Ezekiel 36, said before, how that would happen, the clean water God sprinkles on us, cleanses us, and the new heart, and new Spirit, causes us to walk in the statutes and to keep the judgments of the Lord and do them ( all Freegrace must oppose as He does not believe in this way?)..



Ezekiel 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.




The whole thread opposes James 2, and how Abraham also was justified by this same Spirit, of Christ with the law of righteousness and truth in His heart, then in Abraham ( the Son of God was in Abraham) and explains for us simply, how Abraham was justified by that work of God in him ( which is the Spirit of the living God, Jesus Christ was in Abraham carrying out His own will)..



Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

[Doug Brents]

Obedience is faith, and man cannot obey nor have faith, as it is the new covenant, you guys keep ignoring, that is written in the heart with the Spirit, to call on the Lord with, with a full heart of assurance of faith ( given by the faith of Christ)

Since you don’t quote previous comments properly, I almost missed this, and I am sure I probably missed other comments you made about my posts.

Based on what you state here, I am guessing that you believe the false idea that faith is something God gives us.
Faith is not what God gives us. He gave us someone and something to have faith in, but not faith itself.

Faith is the substance and evidence of what is unseen. It springs from our hearing the Word, believe it, and is made complete (perfect) by our taking action upon that belief. Thus, faith is our response to God through which He pours His blessing.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Again, to be clear, salvation comes when one obeys the commands to believe in Christ for salvation.

That is like saying that the sign above Jesus’ head on the cross said, “The king of the Jews” only, as it says in Mark 15:26 (with no mention of what language it wells written in). But John 19:19-20 says the sign said, “‘JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS’.
20 … and it was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin.”

You see, not everything about an event is mentioned in every place that talks about that event, or topic, or person, or doctrinal subject.

This is merely a copout. I HAVE explained Heb 5:9. And that verse CANNOT contradict any other verse about salvation. EVERY other verse says we are saved by faith in Christ.

This is just kicking at the goads.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house.

jailer's question in v.30
Paul's clear answer in v.31. btw, note that Paul included "his house" in his answer.
v.32 SHOWS clearly that Paul spoke to "all the otheres in his house".

So Paul told the others what he told the jailer.

You are only attempting to ADD to Scripture with opinion and presumption.

You miss a couple of very key words here.

No, it didn't. You are only ADDING to Scripture.

Paul spoke the Word of the Lord TO HIM, and his household.

I NOTED that. Please READ my posts.

The jailer had heard them praising God all night

And you need to read the verses, since this is an error. The Bible says the PRISONERS listened to Paul and Silas.

25 About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the other prisoners were listening to them.

27 The jailer woke up, and when he saw the prison doors open, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself because he thought the prisoners had escaped.

This verse proves that your comment is wrong.

but he had not yet heard the Gospel himself. He didn’t yet know what to believe in.

Rather, he didn't know what TO DO. That's why he asked Paul what he MUST DO to be saved.

30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”

He did not hear the Gospel until Paul “spoke the word of the Lord to him and o all the others in his house.”

Wrong again. He heard the gospel in v.31 - 31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

iow, what he and his household MUST DO is "believe in the Lord jesus and THEY will be saved".

At that point, immediately, they were all baptized.

At what point? It wasn't "at that point" whatever you mean by that.

33 At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized.

So, Paul told his household what he told the jailer; believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved. THEN the jailer washed their wounds. And THEN they were baptized.

I suggest paying more attention when reading God's Word. You've made a number of errors in your post regarding Scripture. It seems you aren't familiar at all with the account of Paul in prison in Philipi.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Freegrace: "No, no one is justified by the law, whether by the scrolls or "written in their hearts"."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Lets see how it works for Christ then, to b justified in the Spirit..

What do you mean by "how it works for Christ"? What are you talking about?

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

How does this verse relate to your confusing statement?

Freegrace states no justification, whether written in the heart.

Because the Bible DOESN'T SAY one is justified by having the law written in the heart.

Rom 2:14,15 tells us that gentiles, who have NO law, have the law written on their hearts. That is the conscience, which God has given to everyone. How can that be justification?

The justification of Christ is by the Spirit.

Prove it then. With Scripture. You make a lot of claims, but don't have verses that say what you claim.

In the flesh, He came with the law within His heart. Remember Freegrace statement: "no one is justified by the law, written in their hearts"

More confusion here. Why are you saying Jesus "came with the law within His heart"? Rom 2:14,15 teaches that Gentiles (human beings) have the law written on their hearts.

Jesus is God. He doesn't need anything written on His heart. You are so confused.

Jesus preached righteousness ( what law was in His heart) and the Lord did not hide the righteousness that was within His heart ( Gods law within His heart) but declared this faithfulness ( as this is the faith of Christ , Freegrace tries to deny, but can he acknowledge, or just ignore) how the law within the heart of Christ is the TRUTH..

This long sentence makes no sense at all.

Psalm 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
9 I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O Lord, thou knowest.
10 I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.

Well, finally you actually have a passage that says what you claim.

Now, why do you try to equate Jesus Christ with fallen humanity? Are you kidding?

Freegrace so opposed to the covenant, but God puts His laws in our inward part, writing them in us, so that He is our God, so we be His people, that is to call and justify us in Him?

Why do make such a false accusation of me about "opposing the covenant"? Where in the world did you make that up from? Please stop your FALSE claims. They are disgusting.

Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This is about the Jews, not Gentiles. And therefore, has NO relevance to Rom 2:14,15.

It seems you aren't able to distinguish between apples and oranges.

Every knee bows to God, to give account, if they did good or bad in their body, on judgement day.

Amen. 2 Cor 5:10

Many verses and explanation for Freegrace to, ridicule, ignore and through contempt on. ( but they are predicted to turn the grace of God into lasciviousness)

You have such an imagination! What I refute are your unbiblical claims.

Meanwhile, Christ calls us, justifies us, and glorifies us, ( which above is opposed by Freegrace of the law put into our hearts for God to be our God, and we His people and In the Lord we be justified)..

This is a downright LIE. Stop it. I fully agree with Romans 8:28-30.

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.[/QUOTE]
What does this verse mean to you?

Gods teaching goes on over Freegrace's head.

Your snippy and arrogant comments reveal a very deep hole in your soul.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Given your propensity for misunderstanding Scripture, please explain what this warning is about.

The whole thread opposes James 2

Please explain yourself.

 

[prophecy_uk]

A question to, Freegrace and to Doug, you two do realize you are the only two, discussing the topic about dead faith.


The question is, and this can be answered by anyone here who would read, and it has no follow up on them, do we believe that a believer in Christ, has the law written in them by the Holy Ghost, and is the law written in your heart?

 

[Doug Brents]

FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Again, to be clear, salvation comes when one obeys the commands to believe in Christ for salvation.

This is merely a copout. I HAVE explained Heb 5:9. And that verse CANNOT contradict any other verse about salvation. EVERY other verse says we are saved by faith in Christ.

This is just kicking at the goads.

Ahh, now you say we are saved by faith. Earlier you said we are saved by belief. Which is it? Because they are not the same.

You are correct in that we are saved through faith (not by it). However, we are not saved through belief. Belief and faith are very different (unless you say belief is more than mental assent, and requires action, as faith does).

You are also correct that Heb 5:9 cannot contradict any other passage of Scripture. That means, if there is an apparent contradiction, the error is in your understanding of one passage or another. There isn’t even the appearance of contradiction when you consider that faith is active and obedient and must come before salvation is received.

We agree that salvation comes through faith. And we agree that obedience must come before salvation is received.
What you seem to be struggling with is that there is more that Scripture says leads to salvation than belief.
Now, if belief and faith are the same (as you claim), AND belief/faith is active and obedient, then it encompasses all the other passages that say repent, confess, and be baptized.

But if belief is just mental assent, and faith is still active obedience in response to that belief, then belief is not all that is required to receive salvation (as we can see from Acts 3:19, Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16, Rom 10:9-10, and many others).