What is your personal view on Communion/Eucharist/L-rd's Supper?

[Zacharias]

1 Corinthians 11:23-30 For I have received of the L-rd that which also I delivered unto you, That the L-rd Yeshua the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the L-rd's death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the L-rd, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the L-rd. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the L-rd's body. 30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

John 6:47-69 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48 I am that bread of life. 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Yeshua said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. 59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. 60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Yeshua knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Yeshua knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Anyway all that I will say is that in Hebrews 9:22 it says, "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission." It would seem to me that a real presence sacrificial communion would fit in very well with Judaism. That is, a continual re-presentation of the Sacrifice on Calvary. Especially considering 1 Peter 2:9 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"

What do you (as an individual) believe concerning Communion? Any sort of presence of Yeshua? Any connection with Yeshua's Sacrifice? Any connection with the Torah? How often should it be celebrated? Is there a particular day in the week when it should be celebrated? Are you against it? Do you consider it the same thing as the Passover? Do you look foward to it? What is your favorite thing about it?

I am allowing Messianic Jewish only-debate welcome in order to find out what you all really think about this. I assume "MJ only-debate welcome" means that I will not be able to respond to anything even questions or clarifications. I have tried to cover all my bases in this post.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

1 Corinthians 11:23-30 For I have received of the L-rd that which also I delivered unto you, That the L-rd Yeshua the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the L-rd's death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the L-rd, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the L-rd. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the L-rd's body. 30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

John 6:47-69 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48 I am that bread of life. 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Yeshua said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. 59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. 60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Yeshua knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Yeshua knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Anyway all that I will say is that in Hebrews 9:22 it says, "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission." It would seem to me that a real presence sacrificial communion would fit in very well with Judaism. That is, a continual re-presentation of the Sacrifice on Calvary. Especially considering 1 Peter 2:9 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"

What do you (as an individual) believe concerning Communion? Any sort of presence of Yeshua? Any connection with Yeshua's Sacrifice? Any connection with the Torah? How often should it be celebrated? Is there a particular day in the week when it should be celebrated? Are you against it? Do you consider it the same thing as the Passover? Do you look foward to it? What is your favorite thing about it?

I am allowing Messianic Jewish only-debate welcome in order to find out what you all really think about this. I assume "MJ only-debate welcome" means that I will not be able to respond to anything even questions or clarifications. I have tried to cover all my bases in this post.

Personally, based on what I Corinthians 11 notes, I personally believe that there is in some mystical/supernatural way the prescence of the Lord present whenever communion takes place...and dishonoring that is not merely a symbolic action, but one where (as Paul said) one sins against the Body of the Lord. My own personal view tends toward Consubstantiation ....but it is not as if I think anyone can fully understand the mystery of communion (more shared on my own views in-depth here in in #3 , #37 #38 and #38 /#57 )...no more than it is with other mysteries that describe the prescence of Yeshua with His people in ways that are truly amazing. For we, as the Bride, are part of the groom..in full communion.

28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."[c] 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church.

Ephesians 5:5

Philippians 2:1
[ Imitating Christ's Humility ] If you have any encouragement from being united with Christ, if any comfort from his love, if any fellowship with the Spirit, if any tenderness and compassion,
Philippians 2:1-3 (in Context) Philippians 2


Revelation 19:7
Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.
Revelation 19:6-8 (in Context) Revelation 19


Revelation 21:2
I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
Revelation 21:1-3 (in Context) Revelation 21 (Whole Chapter)

Revelation 21:9
One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb."
Revelation 21:8-10 (in Context) Revelation 21 (Whole Chapter)

Revelation 22:17
The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.
Revelation 22:16-18 (in Context) Revelation 22 (
​

__________________


A Mystery is mystery, and no single dogma can possibly cover it fully...even though others may come close to describing things in a way that is the best means of understanding what occurs when union with our Lord goes down.


As far as it concerns the amount of time necessary for it to occur, I would say that there's not necessarily a golden rule---but I would think that at least twice a month is a good place to start for a large fellowship...for apart from what I Corinthians 11 notes when it came to the fellowship meal that seemed to occur often, there does not seem to be a clear standard as to how often it NEEDS to be done. Personally, I think one can be blessed whenever they do communion daily in their own personal time with the Messiah....for IMHO, whenever His sacrifice comes to mind, communion is excellent to do in honor of the work of the Messiah ( Luke 22:18-20 , Matthew 26:25 , etc). To me, I think that communion is a beautiful way of connecting what was mentioned in Torah (As it concerns the Passover Lamb/blood spilled for us) with what we have available in the New Covenant with Christ....and although I do not think it's the same thing as Passover since Christ and the disciples celebrated Passover (eating the lamb, herbs, etc) while also doing the Last Supper, I do think it adds more meaning to the Passover event. I have always been blessed doing communion since it always reminds me of the great price that was paid in order to be redeemed by the Lord.

 

[visionary]

No relationship between what really happened that day and the ritual called communion other than what was spoken that day and echoed since.

 

[mishkan]

I am allowing Messianic Jewish only-debate welcome in order to find out what you all really think about this. I assume "MJ only-debate welcome" means that I will not be able to respond to anything even questions or clarifications. I have tried to cover all my bases in this post.

All those rules are a bit of a pain, aren't they? I'm sure they are intended to make things easier, but I've never understood the logic, myself.

Anyway all that I will say is that in Hebrews 9:22 it says, "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission."

Especially considering 1 Peter 2:9 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"

If you're looking for a Jewish view, you'll get two responses:

1. Human sacrifice is one of the strongest prohibitions in Judaism, right up there with idolatry.

2. There is no sacrifice allowed outside the Temple precincts. Until the Temple is rebuilt, there can be no sacrifices.

The texts you have cited are all applications of standard concepts contained in the Hebrew Bible.

1. The verse you've quoted from Hebrews is a fact that the writer then uses to draw a parallel between the death of Yeshua and the animal sacrificial system. He is not literally a bull, or a lamb, or any other kind of sacrificial animal. But he did die, and he did so willingly, offering himself for the sake of Israel.

2. Similarly, Kefa/Peter was well aware that his readers were not priests in any literal sense. But we can act like priests by upholding high moral character and bringing the light of the One True God to the nations. There is no way any of us (with the exception of a very few actual Jewish believers who may be descended from Aaron) would qualify to perform the sacrifices at the altar of the Temple.

3. First Corinthians speaks of blood being shed the next day. This figuratively relates to the blood of the Torah covenant, and we think of Messiah as providing the sacrifice necessary to inaugurate the New Covenant described in Jeremiah. But we are not yet in the Kingdom, which is what Jeremiah described.

4. The passage from the Gospel of Yochanon/John speaks of accepting all that Messiah offers--primarily his teachings of redemption and monarchy. He offered his all, his very flesh and blood... will his followers accept the gift, though?

It would seem to me that a real presence sacrificial communion would fit in very well with Judaism. That is, a continual re-presentation of the Sacrifice on Calvary.

What do you (as an individual) believe concerning Communion? Any sort of presence of Yeshua? Any connection with Yeshua's Sacrifice? Any connection with the Torah? How often should it be celebrated? Is there a particular day in the week when it should be celebrated? Are you against it? Do you consider it the same thing as the Passover? Do you look foward to it? What is your favorite thing about it?

No, I don't believe there is any sense in which the much later doctrine of "real presence" can be found in the Biblical literature.

What is normally called "communion" in churches is a re-enactment of a Passover seder (some contend it was another ceremony related to Passover). This re-enactment, though, has been stripped of its significance and power by removing nearly all the elements of the Passover seder, with the exception of only one cup of wine (out of four that were used) and one bite of matzah (which is used throughout the evening).

The whole Passover seder is a huge favorite of mine. I look forward to it eagerly each year. It contains the elements of redemption, the Israeli kingdom, the hope of restoration... the whole package. I love hosting and leading the seder, for a variety of reasons.

Shalom,

Mishkan



1 Corinthians 11:23-30
For I have received of the L-rd that which also I delivered unto you, That the L-rd Yeshua the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the L-rd's death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the L-rd, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the L-rd. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the L-rd's body. 30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

John 6:47-69
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48 I am that bread of life. 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Yeshua said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. 59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Yeshua knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Yeshua knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

1 Corinthians 11:23-30 For I have received of the L-rd that which also I delivered unto you, That the L-rd Yeshua the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the L-rd's death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the L-rd, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the L-rd. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the L-rd's body. 30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

John 6:47-69 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48 I am that bread of life. 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Yeshua said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. 59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. 60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Yeshua knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Yeshua knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Anyway all that I will say is that in Hebrews 9:22 it says, "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission." It would seem to me that a real presence sacrificial communion would fit in very well with Judaism. That is, a continual re-presentation of the Sacrifice on Calvary. Especially considering 1 Peter 2:9 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"

Would you mind explaining more as it concerns your own view on how you feel I Peter 2:9 (on the royal priesthood) dynamic connects with the aspect of sacrifice? I think it would help in understanding better where it is that you are coming from and how to address your questions with due fairness rather than fall into the problem of speaking past one another. Within the history of Jewish Christianity/Messianic Judaism, there has often been discussion on the dynamics behind priesthood---the Levitical Priesthood and other forms of it that were always present in the Torah---and showing what Christ enabled with his own sacrifice since He himself was a priest and died for others to become such as well (of a different order). And all of that is seen alongside the issue of how Christ himself was the Passover Sacrifice---not one literally (as if he had hooves or wool) but one who acted as such and that the entire sacrifical system pointed to ultimately. .

John 1:29
[ Jesus the Lamb of God ] The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!​

The scriptures confirm this when showing the ways the Lord portrayed himself to the Apostle John in the form of a sheep in the Heavenlies (according to Revelation 13:7-9 , Revelation 5:5-7 , Revelation 7:16-17, Revelation 14:3-5 ) and how the scriptures declare, from John the Apostle to John the Baptist, that Christ is the Lamb of God ( 1 Corinthians 5:6-8 ,more discussed here /here)....the one whom we partake of in order to be cleansed of our sins/redeemed. On where other Jewish believers felt the same on the issue with Christ truly being the sacrifice, one can go here , here , here , here, and here. All of that goes directly together with the places where Christ was described as the priest as well as a sacrifice (the aspect of duality).

If you've never heard of Dr.Michael Brown (who is one of the most prominent Messianic Jewish scholars), he often spoke on the matter and has some good info I think you'd find helpful in your question.

The Blood: Dr. Michael Brown - YouTube
A Bloody Religion? w/ Dr. Michael Brown Part 1 of 2
In Search of Atonement w/ Dr. Michael Brown Part 1 of 2​

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Luk 22:17
For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide [it] among yourselves

And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake [it], and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup [is] the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
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Hebrews 13:11-13
11 The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp. 12 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood. 13 Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore.

1 Peter 1:16
17 Since you call on a Father who judges each man’s work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear. 18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.
​

The early Jewish church understood the concept of redeemption by blood as being based on what occurred with the Levitical sacrifices when a spotless lamb was presented before the priests, sacrificed and atonement happened with the shedding of blood since life was in the blood....and with Christ, His blood is what justified the believer, according to the early church...and that was to always be remembered/participated in (as it concerns communion). Interestingly enough, the concept of the blood being what saved came across as cannibalism toward outsiders to the world of believers...and they constantly had to defend against it. For good study resources:

• Symbols of Jesus: a Christology of symbolic engagement - Page 64
• In the shadow of the temple: Jewish influences on early Christianity - Page 391
• The Jewish temple and the Christian church: a series of discourses ... - Page 320

When looking at Hebrews 9:13-14 – on how the Blood of Christ Purifies the Conscience – many fascinating things come into view.

Christ's sacrifice of himself is superior to animal sacrifices prescribed by the law of Moses. The blood of Christ purifies people's consciences so that they might worship God. Hebrews depicts Jesus' death and exaltation as actions that purify the human conscience. In the Old Testament, the high priest went into the inner part of the earthly sanctuary, bringing animal blood to make atonement. Jesus, however, offered himself up through his death on Calvary, and he has been exalted to God's sanctuary in heaven, where he ministers on behalf of others.

 

[Zacharias]

Would you mind explaining more as it concerns your own view on how you feel I Peter 2:9 (on the royal priesthood) dynamic connects with the aspect of sacrifice? I think it would help in understanding better where it is that you are coming from and how to address your questions with due fairness rather than fall into the problem of speaking past one another. Within the history of Jewish Christianity/Messianic Judaism, there has often been discussion on the dynamics behind priesthood---the Levitical Priesthood and other forms of it that were always present in the Torah---and showing what Christ enabled with his own sacrifice since He himself was a priest and died for others to become such as well (of a different order). And all of that is seen alongside the issue of how Christ himself was the Passover Sacrifice---not one literally (as if he had hooves or wool) but one who acted as such and that the entire sacrifical system pointed to ultimately.

Since I have been directly asked to clarify a point... I believe that we mediate on behalf of others when we pray for them. I believe that we can offer up our sufferings or good works or praise of HaShem up as a sacrifice on behalf of others. Essentially we in the Royal Priesthood offer up spiritual sacrifices. What is the Messianic Jewish view?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I believe that we mediate on behalf of others when we pray for them. I believe that we can offer up our sufferings or good works or praise of HaShem up as a sacrifice on behalf of others. Essentially we in the Royal Priesthood offer up spiritual sacrifices. What is the Messianic Jewish view?

Thanks for clarifiying where it is that you're coming from. As it concerns a Messianic Jewish view, the general theme that is often supported in mainstream Messianic Judaism is that there are specific priesthoods that are reserved for certain groups (i.e The Levitical priesthood only being for those of the Tribe of Aaron), whereas there were other forms of it that were initiated by the sacrifice of Christ in light of the priestly background he walked in similar to Melchizedek in Genesis 14 (who was a priest).

While believers are priests, our roles are not necessarily the same as that of the Levitical priesthood since many functions were already fufilled and some functions, again, were reserved for the Levitical priesthood. One of the reasons why many holding to the eschatological view of the Third Temple being established by the Lord (according to what's seen in Ezekiel and Zechariah) believe it'll be the Levities making sacrifices of a memorial nature unto the Lord while others live out their own roles.....for He has made his people to be a nation of kings/priests. Some of it makes more sense when seeing how even in the time of people such as King David, he exercised a priestly role (i.e. eating the showbread reserved for the priests, reorganizing the temple itself in regards to worship/music and Levities in their order, intercedding, having sons that were priests, etc) and even had others as priests who were not of the line of Aaron...just as David himself was not of the Aaronic line...a type of Christ in the work the Messiah would do.

Exodus 19:6
you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”
Exodus 19:5-7

Isaiah 61:6
And you will be called priests of the LORD, you will be named ministers of our God. You will feed on the wealth of nations, and in their riches you will boast.
Isaiah 61:5-7
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Revelation 1:4
Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits[a] before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.


Revelation 5:10
You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”Revelation 5:9-11

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
Revelation 20:5-7
​

Christ is truly the Prototype of the kind of priests we were meant to be...and as it concerns newness of life, he is the model of the Resurrection.


With Christ, it is interesting to consider the ways that Christ (via his mother Mary) had Levitical lineage in his background...but emphasized the line of Judah more so via His father (more shared here in #102 ). And on the subject of sacrifices, most of Messianic Judaism has often spoken of how the sacrifices believers have done are radically different than what others have done in Biblical times...for even though sacrifices cannot be done of a physical nature in all respects like it was in the Temple, there were other ways of giving sacrifices in the spiritual sense. Adding to this is the reality of how even in Biblical times, people were given freedom to give sacrifices apart from temple in various ways. For more, one can go here ( #296/#20 ) some places you could consider for review:

• Is Yeshua the Passover?
• Orthodox Jewish Chicken Sacrifice & Seeing if Sacrifices Are Appropriate Today

 

[Gxg (G²)]

1 Corinthians 11:23-30 For I have received of the L-rd that which also I delivered unto you, That the L-rd Yeshua the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the L-rd's death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the L-rd, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the L-rd. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the L-rd's body. 30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

John 6:47-69 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48 I am that bread of life. 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. 52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Yeshua said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. 59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. 60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Yeshua knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Yeshua knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Anyway all that I will say is that in Hebrews 9:22 it says, "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission." It would seem to me that a real presence sacrificial communion would fit in very well with Judaism. That is, a continual re-presentation of the Sacrifice on Calvary. Especially considering 1 Peter 2:9 "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"

What do you (as an individual) believe concerning Communion? Any sort of presence of Yeshua?

If believing in the concept of a Literal prescence with Communion, there's is one perspective that is makes a lot of sense....specifically that the prescence of the Holy Spirit inside of the believer is a direct connection with the Lord...thus making all believers connected directly with the prescence of Yeshua since He left the Holy Spirit to His followers to remind them of who He was/what He was about (John 14, John 16-17, etc) and the same Spirit that animates the entire Body of Christ (I Corinthians 12) is what rose Christ from the Grave/sustained Him throughout his time on the Earth.

Romans 6:3
Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
Romans 6:2-4

Romans 8:10
But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.
Romans 8:9-11

Romans 8:11
And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.
Romans 8:10-12 / Romans 8

Romans 6:4
We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
Romans 6:3-5

Ephesians 2:13
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.
Ephesians 2:12-14

Ephesians 3:16-18
16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18 may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ,
​

It's the entire concept of how we physically experience the prescence of the Lord via His Spirit....and logically, when we experience the prescence of the Holy Spirit as the believers in the early Church did, we experience the prescence of Christ by default. This would make the concept of His real presence only at Communion be limited since it is with us at all times if we're truly in Christ....for whenever you experience ANY part of the Trinity, be it the Father or the Holy Spirit, you experience the prescence of Christ....and experience the calling HE had when it came to going to the cross/dying to onself.

 

[Zeek]

Personally I don't believe what is called communion/eucharist is biblical...it appears as a man-made tradition that has taken some elements of the Passover, believing that somehow Jesus instituted it. Nowadays what passes for communion is at best merely ritual that perpetuates its dis-connection with the Jewish people as it re-defines it and sanitizes it beyond recognition. I don't have a big beef about Believers taking communion, as mostly they do it to symbolize our unity in the body, and that we are connected individually and collectively to the L-rd...

 

[crossnote]

When God makes a declaration, when He Speaks...it is so. Hence "This is my Body, This is my Blood". It is futile by our puny logic to explain how it is, what it is, why it is, redefine it (e.g. represents) or explain it away at all. Can you explain how God spoke and 'there was light'? The Words stand as they were spoken IMHO.

 

[visionary]

IT would be against Yeshua's religion to drink blood or ask anyone else to do it.. Besides He was still using His blood at that time to live on.. so there are more reasons to believe in the symbolism of the words that the literalism of the words.

 

[mishkan]

When God makes a declaration, when He Speaks...it is so. Hence "This is my Body, This is my Blood". It is futile by our puny logic to explain how it is, what it is, why it is, redefine it (e.g. represents) or explain it away at all. Can you explain how God spoke and 'there was light'? The Words stand as they were spoken IMHO.

But what was he holding when he made those statements?

Matzah and wine!

These elements were already identified as sybolic components of the Passover seder. Yeshua added to the historical significance from Egypt the additional significance of his own death.

That doesn't make bread turn into flesh, or wine into blood. Yeshua would have regarded such an idea as abominable. At the very least, the notion of ingesting blood or human flesh is unkosher, to the max.

 

[TorahxKeeper]

1Pe 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a set-apart nation, a people for a possession, that you should proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvellous light,

Does this not refer to Yeshua being a High Priest after the order of [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Melchizedek?

This would also be a precedence of Yeshau being from the Tribe of Judah. All the Kings were to come from Judah, and being that Judah also took half of the Levites. This made Judah the House of Kings and Priests, Which Yeshua is both being after the order of Melchizedek.

This does seem to connect to the "last Supper" as related to Melchizedek and Abraham.

Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high El.
Gen 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high El, possessor of heaven and earth:

Somehow this ritual of bread and wine was passing authority to Abraham, as this priest hood would be passed thru his lineage. Also this could have been a conformation of sorts of the Abrahamic Covenant with Yahweh.

Not unlike Yeshua passing His authority to his Apostles in a similar fashion.Not that is was by lineage but that they were to be in authority after Yeshua was gone.

This also was a conformation of the Re-Newed Covenant, as stated in the Gospels.

Also by doing this Yeshua was declaring His royal priest hood, which gave him the authority to be a sacrifice outside the Temple, which would not require the Levitical priesthood to preform.

His declaration of the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Melchizedek [/FONT]Priesthood and that Kingship is necessary for Yeshua to return as Reining King to reclaim his Throne.

We too are of this Royal priesthood. not after the Levitical order but by the order of [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Melchizedek.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yeshau says we will be Heirs to His throne, one that will never be vacated, but we will eventually have His authority as the Apostles did.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of Elohim,
Rom 8:17 and if children, also heirs – truly heirs of Elohim, and co-heirs with Messiah, if indeed we suffer with Him, in order that we also be exalted together.


[/FONT]

 

[Lulav]

1Pe 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a set-apart nation, a people for a possession, that you should proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvellous light,

Does this not refer to Yeshua being a High Priest after the order of [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Melchizedek?

This would also be a precedence of Yeshau being from the Tribe of Judah. All the Kings were to come from Judah, and being that Judah also took half of the Levites. This made Judah the House of Kings and Priests, Which Yeshua is both being after the order of Melchizedek.

This does seem to connect to the "last Supper" as related to Melchizedek and Abraham.

Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high El.
Gen 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high El, possessor of heaven and earth:

Somehow this ritual of bread and wine was passing authority to Abraham, as this priest hood would be passed thru his lineage. Also this could have been a conformation of sorts of the Abrahamic Covenant with Yahweh.

Not unlike Yeshua passing His authority to his Apostles in a similar fashion.Not that is was by lineage but that they were to be in authority after Yeshua was gone.

This also was a conformation of the Re-Newed Covenant, as stated in the Gospels.

Also by doing this Yeshua was declaring His royal priest hood, which gave him the authority to be a sacrifice outside the Temple, which would not require the Levitical priesthood to preform.

His declaration of the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Melchizedek [/FONT]Priesthood and that Kingship is necessary for Yeshua to return as Reining King to reclaim his Throne.

We too are of this Royal priesthood. not after the Levitical order but by the order of [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Melchizedek.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yeshau says we will be Heirs to His throne, one that will never be vacated, but we will eventually have His authority as the Apostles did.

Rom 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of Elohim,
Rom 8:17 and if children, also heirs – truly heirs of Elohim, and co-heirs with Messiah, if indeed we suffer with Him, in order that we also be exalted together.


[/FONT]

Are you saying that this ritual was only for the 12? That he was passing on the mantle so to speak? I guess that would make more sense, especially since we don't see the Apostles teaching this.

 

[TorahxKeeper]

No I am not saying that.

Let me explain my position on the last supper , it may bare some insight on what I posted.
I do not believe the "last Supper" was the Seder, The reason for that is I believe Yeshua fulfilled the Commandment in Ex.12

Exo 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it between the evenings.

Ok to be short if Yeshua is our Passover lamb representative then it does not fit he would be eating the sacrifice that he was.

Now on the other hand, I think that the meal that was eaten by Yeshua and His disciples should have had some sort of precedence in the Torah. This also should be witnessed in the Torah somehow.

The only thing I have found is the connection to Melchizedek. I do believe also it is a conformation of the New Covenant, because that is specifically mentioned that it is.

I am still new to Messianic ways and traditions, also did not believe it was merely Kiddish taken place as that is from the Talmud right?

The OP was looking for an answer to the Royal Priesthood mentioned in 1Peter and if it had any relationship to the Last Supper event.

 

[Lulav]

No I am not saying that.

Let me explain my position on the last supper , it may bare some insight on what I posted.
I do not believe the "last Supper" was the Seder, The reason for that is I believe Yeshua fulfilled the Commandment in Ex.12

Exo 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it between the evenings.

Ok to be short if Yeshua is our Passover lamb representative then it does not fit he would be eating the sacrifice that he was.

Now on the other hand, I think that the meal that was eaten by Yeshua and His disciples should have had some sort of precedence in the Torah. This also should be witnessed in the Torah somehow.

The only thing I have found is the connection to Melchizedek. I do believe also it is a conformation of the New Covenant, because that is specifically mentioned that it is.

I am still new to Messianic ways and traditions, also did not believe it was merely Kiddish taken place as that is from the Talmud right?

The OP was looking for an answer to the Royal Priesthood mentioned in 1Peter and if it had any relationship to the Last Supper event.

OK, I got ya. In John it does say it was before Passover that they met and it's been a constant discussion between Messianics if it was a Seder or not. If you go by John, it was not, which would mean that the bread they broke was leavened.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

1Pe 2:9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a set-apart nation, a people for a possession, that you should proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvellous light,

Does this not refer to Yeshua being a High Priest after the order of [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Melchizedek?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This would also be a precedence of Yeshau being from the Tribe of Judah. All the Kings were to come from Judah, and being that Judah also took half of the Levites. This made Judah the House of Kings and Priests, Which Yeshua is both being after the order of Melchizedek.[/FONT]

Which paticular scripture/reference are you referring to when noting what Judah took on half the Levites? Trying to be certain as to what was noted....

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This does seem to connect to the "last Supper" as related to Melchizedek and Abraham.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high El. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Gen 14:19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high El, possessor of heaven and earth: [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Somehow this ritual of bread and wine was passing authority to Abraham, as this priest hood would be passed thru his lineage. Also this could have been a conformation of sorts of the Abrahamic Covenant with Yahweh.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Not unlike Yeshua passing His authority to his Apostles in a similar fashion.Not that is was by lineage but that they were to be in authority after Yeshua was gone.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This also was a conformation of the Re-Newed Covenant, as stated in the Gospels.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Also by doing this Yeshua was declaring His royal priest hood, which gave him the authority to be a sacrifice outside the Temple, which would not require the Levitical priesthood to preform.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]His declaration of the [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Melchizedek [/FONT]Priesthood and that Kingship is necessary for Yeshua to return as Reining King to reclaim his Throne.

We too are of this Royal priesthood. not after the Levitical order but by the order of [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Melchizedek.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Yeshau says we will be Heirs to His throne, one that will never be vacated, but we will eventually have His authority as the Apostles did.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Rom 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of Elohim, [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Rom 8:17 and if children, also heirs – truly heirs of Elohim, and co-heirs with Messiah, if indeed we suffer with Him, in order that we also be exalted together. [/FONT]

Good thoughts The aspect of Melchizedek sharing bread/wine with Abraham has always been amazing to consider when seeing the same dynamics present in what Christ did with the apostles...one of the reasons others are of the thought that it could have been a theophany (i.e. Christ in pre-incarnate form) that was having communion with Abraham as a symbolization of what would be done with those who'd honor/place faith in the Lord.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

When God makes a declaration, when He Speaks...it is so. Hence "This is my Body, This is my Blood". It is futile by our puny logic to explain how it is, what it is, why it is, redefine it (e.g. represents) or explain it away at all. Can you explain how God spoke and 'there was light'? The Words stand as they were spoken IMHO.

There is something about being united in ways we cannot fully understand

 

[crossnote]

But what was he holding when he made those statements?

Matzah and wine!

These elements were already identified as sybolic components of the Passover seder. Yeshua added to the historical significance from Egypt the additional significance of his own death.

That doesn't make bread turn into flesh, or wine into blood. Yeshua would have regarded such an idea as abominable. At the very least, the notion of ingesting blood or human flesh is unkosher, to the max.

So is Yeshua speaking in Platonic terms after all?
Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
(Joh 6:53-54)

 

[visionary]

No I am not saying that.

Let me explain my position on the last supper , it may bare some insight on what I posted.
I do not believe the "last Supper" was the Seder, The reason for that is I believe Yeshua fulfilled the Commandment in Ex.12

Exo 12:6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it between the evenings.

Ok to be short if Yeshua is our Passover lamb representative then it does not fit he would be eating the sacrifice that he was.

Now on the other hand, I think that the meal that was eaten by Yeshua and His disciples should have had some sort of precedence in the Torah. This also should be witnessed in the Torah somehow.

The only thing I have found is the connection to Melchizedek. I do believe also it is a conformation of the New Covenant, because that is specifically mentioned that it is.

I am still new to Messianic ways and traditions, also did not believe it was merely Kiddish taken place as that is from the Talmud right?

The OP was looking for an answer to the Royal Priesthood mentioned in 1Peter and if it had any relationship to the Last Supper event.

It is true that it could easily have been a teaching night, which was common among the rabbis with their talmidims. . In the Lubavitch rabbinic movement they have what is called “Moschiach’s Supper”. It is usually held the night before the Passover night, because it is used as a teaching class on how to keep the seder.

This would explain why they were sopping with the bread, which could not be done with matzoh. Yeshua in giving the sopped leaven bread to Judas and saying go is like a symbolic last minute cleaning the house of the leaven [sin] before He continues with the last messages for His disciples of the future they will soon witness and live through.

If everyone had mikvah for the Passover, the washing of feet would not have been done for the Passover meal. They would have already been "clean" by mikvah in their minds. So the significance of this washing of feet by Yeshua is more than the master washing the feet of the disciples, more than the lesson of being a servant, it is mikvah that washing of feet signifies. Washing of feet is a miniature mikvah.. a symbolic mikvah, if you will.

Yeshua is the living bread, the Word.. of which He said "This is my body eat"... breaking the bread and giving it to His disciples. So Read and consume the Word of God and let it be a part of you. There are twelve loaves of bread laid out fresh on the table of shewbread right under the light of the Menorah in the Temple, which is your body. Have you been placing putting fresh bread in your temple, and as part of the royal priesthood eating it? Hopefully we all have so been consumed with that which the Lord has spoken more than any other voice that we reflect it in our lives.



From what we can gather with no lamb mentioned, indicating it could either have been an Essene [mainly vegetarian group] seder or it was indeed a practice run as I suggested.