What is your gift of the Holy Spirit?

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The Rock on which the church is built is God or Christ himself, the Rock of Salvation!

Amen!
HalleluYAH!
MARANANTHA LORD JESUS !
Come QUICKLY ! YES! RETURN for YOUR PEOPLE !
Amen.

 

[Francis Drake]

How does that correspond with Jesus saying their is only one rock the church would be built upon, the truth from God, not the opinions of man?

The Rock of Salvation is, was and always will be Jesus himself, not some revelation Peter had.

 

[timothyu]

not some revelation Peter had.

So you prefer to conflict with the words of Jesus?Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Jesus' point was that truth comes from God, not the opinions of man. You can say Jesus is the rock but you can't leave out the bit about our opinions. It leaves doors open for abuse of scripture.

 

[Pethesedzao]

How does that correspond with Jesus saying their is only one rock the church would be built upon, the truth from God, not the opinions of man?

The Church is built on Jesus Christ the Chief Cornerstone, the foundation. However, every believer is responsible for building up the Church by moving in their gifts and ministries ie rocks, living stones and one of those was used by Simon Peter when he addressed Jesus as being the Messiah (word of knowledge)

 

[Pethesedzao]

the pebble,

or FAITH in JESUS and the FATHER

Upon this rock (the gift of revealed knowledge)

 

[Pethesedzao]

this rock, the rock of revealed knowledge

 

[Pethesedzao]

Peter (English) was named at birth by his parents as Petros (Greek=pebble or stone), his given name.
It's therefore a bit silly to claim that Jesus gave Peter the new nickname of Petros, when Petros was already the name everybody called him by.

The only alternative name that Peter had was Cephas, given by Jesus when they first met in John1v42
And yes, Cephas is merely the Aramaic translation of the Greek name Petros. You will find Cephas/Petros being used interchangeably about 9 places in scripture.

So, no new nickname for Petros.

The Rock on which the church is built did not "come from" God at all.
The Rock on which the church is built is God or Christ himself, the Rock of Salvation!

Yes but 'this rock' is the Gift of revealed knowledge

 

[timothyu]

The Church is built on Jesus Christ the Chief Cornerstone, the foundation. However, every believer is responsible for building up the Church by moving in their gifts and ministries ie rocks, living stones and one of those was used by Simon Peter when he addressed Jesus as being the Messiah (word of knowledge)

So you are saying God's truth needs to be bolstered by man's rocks?

this rock, the rock of revealed knowledge

Yes God's, not what man claims as being revealed to them to form an opinion, the ol' holy spirit ploy..

 

[Pethesedzao]

So you are saying God's truth needs to be bolstered by man's rocks?

A corner stone does not build anything. It is the stones joined together that build up.

Yes God's, not what man claims as being revealed to them to form an opinion, the ol' holy spirit ploy..

 

[Pethesedzao]

The Spirit uses the rocks (ministries and gifts) to finish the building.

 

[timothyu]

Yes, all gifts lead to the Kingdom of Jesus' Gospel and away from the world of man's making..

 

[Francis Drake]

So you prefer to conflict with the words of Jesus?Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Except that the above verse still doesn't state what you claim, making you the one in conflict with the words of Jesus.
The title of "the rock" is used regularly as a title of God and Jesus. For you to grasp hold of it and make it something else is demeaning to Jesus himself, reducing him to no greater than a man's personal revelation.

Jesus' point was that truth comes from God, not the opinions of man.

Of course the truth comes from God and not man, but that still doesn't prove your point.​

You can say Jesus is the rock but you can't leave out the bit about our opinions.

Of course Jesus is the rock, because that's exactly what scripture says, but your opinion is of no value because it not only contradicts what Jesus said in Matthew, but also contradicts the whole of scripture.​

It leaves doors open for abuse of scripture.

Regarding scriptural abuse, Jesus also said-
Mark7v13Thus you nullify the word of God by the tradition you have handed down. And you do so in many such matters.”
There are two false traditions regularly taught in Catholic and Protestant circles.
1). Peter is the Rock on which the church is built.
2). Peter's revelation is the rock on which the church is built.

They are both doctrines of demons, and have been designed by Satan to nullify the word of God which says that Jesus alone is the rock (mountain) on which the church is built.
Your claim puts the focus back on man.

Show me anywhere else in scripture that grants the title of "the rock" to a man's revelation, and I will show you dozens of scriptures that show the title belongs to God or Jesus.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No.
Faith is not the same as revealed knowledge.
Faith is a gift, sheer grace!
Trusting and relying on the Father in Heaven to Accomplish Salvation and Everything Related to Salvation...

Upon this rock (the gift of revealed knowledge)

 

[Pethesedzao]

Except that the above verse still doesn't state what you claim, making you the one in conflict with the words of Jesus.
The title of "the rock" is used regularly as a title of God and Jesus. For you to grasp hold of it and make it something else is demeaning to Jesus himself, reducing him to no greater than a man's personal revelation.

Of course the truth comes from God and not man, but that still doesn't prove your point.​

Of course Jesus is the rock, because that's exactly what scripture says, but your opinion is of no value because it not only contradicts what Jesus said in Matthew, but also contradicts the whole of scripture.​

Regarding scriptural abuse, Jesus also said-
Mark7v13Thus you nullify the word of God by the tradition you have handed down. And you do so in many such matters.”
There are two false traditions regularly taught in Catholic and Protestant circles.
1). Peter is the Rock on which the church is built.
2). Peter's revelation is the rock on which the church is built.

They are both doctrines of demons, and have been designed by Satan to nullify the word of God which says that Jesus alone is the rock (mountain) on which the church is built.
Your claim puts the focus back on man.

Show me anywhere else in scripture that grants the title of "the rock" to a man's revelation, and I will show you dozens of scriptures that show the title belongs to God or Jesus.

 

[Pethesedzao]

Peters

No.
Faith is not the same as revealed knowledge.
Faith is a gift, sheer grace!
Trusting and relying on the Father in Heaven to Accomplish Salvation and Everything Related to Salvation...

Simon Peter's confession was the Gift of a Word of knowledge; it is ONE of the gifts that is being used to build up the Church of Christ Jesus.

 

[Francis Drake]

Peters
Simon Peter's confession was the Gift of a Word of knowledge; it is ONE of the gifts that is being used to build up the Church of Christ Jesus.

Some would say that as the Holy Spirit had not yet fallen, Peter could not be operating in one of the gifts of the spirit.

 

[Pethesedzao]

Yes, all gifts lead to the Kingdom of Jesus' Gospel and away from the world of man's making..

What gift or gifts has the Spirit given you??

 

[Pethesedzao]

If anyone is lacking spiritual gifts then they probably have not been baptized with the Spirit...

 

[Francis Drake]

If anyone is lacking spiritual gifts then they probably have not been baptized with the Spirit...

Which surely contradicts what you said about Peter in your post No 75?

 

[Pethesedzao]

Which surely contradicts what you said about Peter in your post No 75?

Simon Peter foretasted the power of the Spirit when he confessed Jesus was the Christ...the baptism with the Spirit is for all saints. It came first on the Day of Pentecost when all those who were present were given the Gift of Tongues. As regards the Gift of faith it is not given to every believer; same goes for the Gift of Tongues etc...