• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

What is your endtime view on Revelation 12:17

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by brian57, Mar 5, 2015.

  1. brian57

    brian57 Junior Member

    Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    We all know that Satan used Herod in his attempt to kill Jesus as a child , but what is your endtime view of Satan making war against those which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. How do you think he will do it?

    My personal view is that Satan used Mohammad , but what is your view?
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2015
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. KrAZeD

    KrAZeD Newbie

    still future, but roughly equated to the same- a power figure rising up and getting all to willfully join his task of attempting to annihilate all of that small portion of land Israel and its inhabitants holding fast to God and Jesus.
  3. n2thelight

    n2thelight Guest

    Revelation 12:1 "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

    In the chapter twelve we leave the last three and a half year period, and return all the way back to the world that was [the first earth age]; and some of the events that happened in the world that was. Then we take a fast sweep through God's plan up to the first day of the Millennium. All of these events recorded in this twelfth chapter may be some-what confusing to you.

    This "wonder" is a great sign in the heavens. The "woman" here is not the church, for a church building has never delivered any child. This "mother" has nothing to do with the church. This woman is "Israel", the twelve sons of Jacob, or tribes [John 16:21].
    The same political and social order that was in existence at the end of the first earth age, prior to this age of flesh man, will be ruling over the earth at the end of our current earth age. Fix in your mind that the time period that is being spoken of here is that time when the souls of men were not in the flesh, it was in that first earth age before the events following Genesis 1:2.

    Revelation 12:2 "And she being with child, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered."

    This "child" to be delivered is the Messiah, and the woman delivering the child is the symbol of "Israel", however, in the physical sense of this earth age, we call her "Mary". It is Satan's sole purpose to destroy this child. This woman is the wife and the son of Almighty God, and God wants us to feel and understand the events occurring then. What happens to them affects Him, exactly as it would you or I in a similar case.

    Revelation 12:3 "And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, haven seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads."

    This wonder, the "Great red dragon", is always Satan. Here again, it is all happening in heaven, prior to Genesis 1:2, in the first earth age. All these events will be just like it will be at the end of this earth age. Satan had seven dominions then, with ten agencies of power and that had their authority. Satan had complete universal control over that prior earth kingdom; and he had total political control. This we will see in Revelation 13, is a copy of this earth age, and the United Nations, with it's ten units of power, taking control over all it's dominions. Though the forms of government and their systems appear at first to be the same, we will see the differences between these two ages: That of the first, and the flesh age we are now in.

    Revelation 12:4 "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born."

    The "stars" of heaven are the "sons of God". This "old dragon" caused one third of all of God's creation to follow him. One third of God's children, are all those in their "soul bodies", are also called "angelic souls". No my friend, they do not have wings, but the cherubs do.

    What it is saying here, is through Satan's fall in the first earth age, he drew one third of God's children to him. He caused them to fall, and they worshipped him, and believed in him to be their God. That is also his desire also for this age; to cause you and I, the children of God, to worship him.

    When we read that "all living came from mother Eve", it means that "Messiah came from, or through mother Eve". He came through the offspring of mothers Eve, and Mary. And it is through the Messiah, Christ is offering eternal life to all mankind. For acceptance of God's gift, all mankind must pass from death to eternal life through the blood of Jesus Christ. So we see this refers to spiritual life, and not necessarily physical life.

    Revelation 12:5 "And she brought forth a man child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne."

    The "man child" that was brought forth in the little town of Bethlehem when Jesus the Christ child was born. There are only two events that sit upon this throne, and the only one to do this was a child. Get it? That child is Jesus Christ.

    This verse covers two advents [comings]; the first is Christ's birth as a child, and His second coming will be at the seventh trumpet. Then He will come to rule all nations with a rod of iron. Jesus Christ will come as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
    Revelation 12:6 "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her a thousand two hundred and threescore days."

    This time is when God's protection is given for the woman "Israel". Following the resurrection, and transposing these days into years, it would bring us up to the early 1800's A.D., when the house of Israel nations became superpowers.

    Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Mi'-cha-el and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,,"

    This event brings us back into heaven. The war is between Satan [the dragon] and his angels, who are fighting against Michael and his angels. Satan will lose.

    Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."

    This is the time of the sounding of the fifth trumpet, when Satan and his fallen angels are released upon the earth for the final five months period, spoken of in Revelation 9:5, 10. Satan will spend five months here on earth deceiving all mankind, then go to the pit for the thousand years. After that thousand years, Satan [not his fallen angels] will be released for a short period, then go to perdition [perish]. Once Satan is kicked out of heaven, he will not be allowed to return. Today Satan is in heaven accusing the saints before the Lord.

    This is prophesy that will come in the very near future.

    Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Sa'-tan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

    If you were ever confused who Satan is, John calls him by the names he used while playing his different roles on earth. The "dragon" is Satan's role in that first earth age, when one third of all of God's children followed him. Satan's evil spirit is allowed on earth now, along with his demons. However, you haven't seen Satan in person yet. Satan and his angels, both physically and bodily, will come to earth just as they did in Genesis 6.

    When Satan is cast out it will be as it was in the days of Noah. This is what Jesus said in Matthew 24:37: "But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Mankind will be mixing with the angels, and the women even marrying them just as was going on in Noah's day before the flood. Sodomy will be common, and all forms of filth will be made public, and accepted and considered normal. The world and the kenite influence is preparing us, and our mind to accept all forms of filth in sex and marriage as being natural; and to consider their perversion as being of God.

    Your acceptance and view of this filth of sodomy and religious form will tell you to what state of depravity your mind has sunk. The condition of your soul will be determined by what you know, and how you stand on these issues, at Satan's arrival to earth.
  4. n2thelight

    n2thelight Guest

    Revelation 12:10 "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power [authority] of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."

    This is why Satan's other name is "the accuser", for he continually stands before God's throne accusing all the saints of God. When you mess up, Satan will let God know about it. That is why it is important for us to repent immediately when we become aware of sin in our lives. Then all barriers between God and us are removed. Satan will continue to accuse you before God, right up to the time he is caste out to the earth.

    Revelation 12:11 "And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

    When Satan and his fallen angles are cast out onto the earth, the "elect" and those who have the seal of God in their minds will overcome them through the power given them in Christ's blood. You are the "elect" when you understand who Satan is, and what will come to pass. God has promised you and I that we have power over Satan, and God's protection is extended to each of those sealed in their minds.

    "The word" of your testimony will allow you to overcome them, you won't even premeditate what to say, for God, through the Holy Spirit, will put the words in your mouth. The death that comes is to the "two witnesses" only, and to them it is for 84 hours [three and a half days].

    Revelation 12:12 "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

    When Satan is caste out, those dear souls in heaven will start a celebration in heaven. Those are the dear Christians that have died and are in heaven with the Father. However, Satan [the devil] is coming to earth with his angels to bring the wrath of their deception with them. Satan is not after your body, but after your soul.

    Satan knows God's word, and the judgment passed upon him. He is sentenced to death already, and he knows his time is short. He will come to earth with his bag of tricks, and lying wonders, and the with authority from God to deceive every man on this earth. The only exception is to those who have the seal [knowledge] of God [written in God's Word] in their minds for they will not be deceived.

    If you have not taken the time to put that truth in his Word into your mind, you will fall for Satan's razzle-dazzle sideshow of tricks. Satan will walk this earth with his fallen angels, and you will see them, hear their speech and even present themselves as fellow men. You are not going to fly out of here, but face them in this generation, and you will either stand against Satan and his realm, or you will fall. What is at stake here is your soul, and not your flesh body.

    Revelation 12:13 "And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child."

    We see the woman here again, "Israel", who is now identified and promoting Jesus Christ. Though Satan has the rest of the heathen world, but also he wants your soul. If you still think the woman [Israel] are the Jews, It will be almost impossible for you to understand this. For "Israel" is the offspring also of the ten tribes that were scattered. Yet today they exist in large part as the Christian nations of the world. The prophet Hosea identified them in Hosea 1:10
    Hosea 1:10 "Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured not numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, `Ye are not My People,' there it shall be said unto them, `Ye are the sons of the living God.' "

    Hosea is calling attention to the time of the end, to the house of Israel in the end times and how they will be remembered. In the locations where each of these tribes are located, not in Palestine, but in Europe, America or where ever those nations are established. There this house of Israel will just not consider themselves as Israel, but as Gentile nations. However also, in that location they will call themselves "sons of the living God". Jesus Christ is the "Living God" and those that are sons of God are called Christians. This could not be the Jews under any condition for they do not consider Jesus Christ as the Son of God, or in any form of deity.

    These are people who represent the woman who brought forth the manchild, Jesus Christ, and God's salvation to the world. The persecution then is caused by the deceiving of these Christians into following Satan.

    Revelation 12:14 "And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent."

    The two wings of this great eagle are going to spread into this wilderness with truth. They are going to place in the minds of this "woman" [Israel], God's elect, the truth. Then the elect will understand who Satan is, and all the supernatural events that are around him.

    Revelation 12:15 "And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood."

    The "flood" is a flood of lies and deception. Are they aimed at the heathen religions? No! Satan is after the Christians, and his camouflage in his appearance is that of Jesus Christ. Jesus is the only one to claim Himself to be the "Son of God", and by that laid the claim to be the only way of salvation. That is the name and position that Satan wants, and he is out to get from you. Satan already has the rest of the world deceived. The "woman" is you, and anyone else who professes to be a Christian. Even Gentiles that have accepted the Lord Jesus Christ are grafted in and part of the tree of Israel. We then are the target of this flood of lies and deceptions coming from the mouth of Satan, and Satan will have his revivals and church services.

    Revelation 12:16 "And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth."

    The sword of God is the truth of God's Word, and this is what came out of Jesus Christ's mouth. In turn, what comes out of the mouth of Satan will be a flood of lies and deceptions that will make up his false religion. Satan will take the Word of God and twist and distort it into his lies to appear to be of God. Satan [the Antichrist] will make it look so good and positive, that the unlearned of the Scriptures will take it as truth.

    Revelation 12:17 "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

    Are you going to keep the commandments of God? If so, you are part of this woman Satan is warring against. Satan is angry over you, yet you have the power over him. The war of the latter days is not fought with guns and rockets, but with words and doctrines, with concepts that come right out of the Bible. It is a spiritual warfare, and the battlefield is in your mind. To be ready for that war, you must have your spiritual armor on and in place, and be ready to do spiritual battle with Satan and all his realm. The dragon knows who you are very well, and he knows your weaknesses. That is the reason that we must be armed with the Spirit and Word of God, for it will be the Holy Spirit that speaks through you in that day.

  5. ebedmelech

    ebedmelech My dog Micah in the pic Supporter

    This is POINT ON brian57!
    He used MORE than Mohammad! You CANNOT just look at Mohammad, but EVERY FALSE WAY is used of Satan.

    The understanding has to be that SPIRITUAL WARFARE is the war of Satan! Of course we see that come to fruition in this world through physical war BUT THE GREATER WAR, is that of the spiritual.

    Remember Daniel 10:10-13?:
    10 Then behold, a hand touched me and set me trembling on my hands and knees.
    11 He said to me, “O Daniel, man of high esteem, understand the words that I am about to tell you and stand upright, for I have now been sent to you.” And when he had spoken this word to me, I stood up trembling.
    12 Then he said to me, “Do not be afraid, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart on understanding this and on humbling yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to your words.
    13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia.

    Right there you have insight into the war in the spiritual realm through this angel who was sent to Daniel.

    There's a war we have to see for what it is. We can see the spiritual war very vividly if we look spiritually based on God's word.
  6. Codger

    Codger Regular Member

    In chapter 12 of Revelation John is simply giving a short history of the Church in apocalyptic symbolic language. He begins with the birth of Jesus in 3BC and chronologically gives the events in sequence as they happened. There is not one shred of prophesy in this chapter. It is simply a review of the Church from the birth of Jesus up to the very time when John wrote the book of Revelation sometime in the late 80's or very early 90's.

    Revelation 12:13-17 (NASB)
    13 And when the dragon saw that he was thrown down to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child.

    Satan was cast to the earth on the day of the Crucifixion. Look at the sequence of events.

    14 But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she could fly into the wilderness to her place, where she was nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

    A time, times and half a time. This was the duration of the tribulation of Jerusalem from 66-70AD 3 1/2 years . God made a way of escape for the Christians in Jerusalem and they fled to Pella where they remained until the war was over. Pella was a very pro Roman city. A city that had only been recently attacked by the Zealots.

    15 And the serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, so that he might cause her to be swept away with the flood.
    16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth.

    It appears that when the Zealots returned from their victory over the forces of Cestius they pursued the Christians on their escape route. They only had about a week to escape while the zealots were out of the city and this was why the words of Jesus were of extreme urgency to flee because of this small window of opportunity. The obvious plan of the Zealots was to drive them into the Jordan river as it was at flood-stage. Something happened that we are not told about - the Christians escaped. It sounds like God may have once again parted the waters of the Jordan - just like he did in Joshua's time. In any case they crossed the flooded river unharmed.

    17 So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

    The woman in this chapter is the God fearing "remnant" who had brought forth the Messiah. The Zealots gave up and returned to the city enraged that all of these people had escaped to the Romans - so they thought. They returned to the city. All of the Christians had not left the city but some chose to stay behind. I think there was a big revival in Jerusalem during this 3 1/2 year period. These people were called the "Elect" by Daniel and for their sake God had promised that he would cut the tribulation of Jerusalem short - and he did.
  7. Job8

    Job8 Senior Member

    Just before the Antichrist takes control of the world, Satan takes possession of the Antichrist. And just before that happens, Satan and all his evil angels are cast down from the atmospheric heaven to the earth by Michael and his holy angels. That is when Satan (the dragon) makes war with the believing remnant (the remnant of her seed) of Israel (the woman). This is all yet future.

    These believing Jews are not a part of the Church, but they do believe on the Lord Jesus Christ during the Tribulation. They are preserved in the wilderness by God for 3 1/2 years.
  8. AlasBabylon

    AlasBabylon Mystic


    Daniel 12 and Rev 12 are OT/NT parallels.

    Both mention Michael and both mention "time, times, half-time" which is 70 years...
    the amount of time it takes to totally destroy the power of God's people.

    I believe the 70 year clock began 1945.

    We are there.

  9. brian57

    brian57 Junior Member


    Some would say 1948 and I think I read some where an average life span is between 70 and 80 , but either way I do agree with you it is very close.
  10. AlasBabylon

    AlasBabylon Mystic


    I just composed and posted this on another topic about the one who restrained...
    but it also explains why I count from 1945.

    Early church fathers believed the one who restrained was the Roman empire...
    which became Christian and split into two parts... East and West.

    The Eastern Roman empire was Byzantium also called the Second Rome which
    once ruled Jerusalem. Byzantium existed over a thousand years. It Christianized
    eastern Europe, including the Rus [modern Ukraine.] After Byzantium was destroyed
    by Muslim Turks, its heir, Russia, became the Third Rome [the last Byzantium
    princess married Ivan III and she brought both Byzantium's double-headed eagle
    symbol and ivory throne to Russia.] The last "Caesar" of the Eastern Roman Empire
    was "Tsar" Nicholas II who was deposed in 1917 by democrats and murdered in 1918
    by bolsheviks. The destruction of Eastern Rome, Tsarist Russia, loosed the horrific
    bolshevik antichrists in Russia, Europe and the entire world. The antichrist bolsheviks
    murdered millions of Christians in Russia, Ukraine, etc...

    The Western Roman Empire was called the Holy Roman Empire, based in Germany.
    The Holy Roman Empire can be further divided into the First and Second Reich.
    "Kaiser" Wilhelm II, king of the Second Reich and first cousin to "Tsar" Nicholas II,
    was deposed in 1918. Hitler's Third Reich was an attempt at resurrecting the Holy
    Roman Empire. Interestingly... just as they did to destroy the Third Rome, democrats
    united with bolsheviks to destroy the Third Reich... and in 1945 the last remnant of
    the one who restrained... the Roman Empire, was removed.

    The USA has basically ruled the planet since 1945. Here we are 70 years later...
    we have witnessed Jesus' prophesied "days of Noah" and "days of Lot"... the
    "time, times, half-time" [70 years] time period of the total destruction of the
    power of the holy people. [Daniel 12 / Rev 12.]

  11. Bible2

    Bible2 Guest

    The woman in Revelation 12 represents the church (which is Israel: Romans 11:1,17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). She is clothed with the sun (Revelation 12:1) of righteousness (Malachi 4:2) through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the church clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8). The moon under her feet (Revelation 12:1) represents Satan under her feet (Romans 16:20) as she overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). The crown of 12 stars on her head (Revelation 12:1) represents the 12 apostles (of Matthew 10:2-4, Acts 1:16-26), who have been placed over the church (1 Corinthians 12:28).

    Her giving birth to the "man child", and his being caught up to the throne of God (Revelation 12:5) immediately before she flees into the wilderness for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6), represents the future, mid-tribulation catching up of the 144,000 male-virgins part of the church in their mortal bodies to the throne of God in heaven (Revelation 14:1,4,5, Textus Receptus), like how Enoch and Elijah were caught up in their mortal bodies to heaven (Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11).

    Her fleeing into and remaining in a protected wilderness place for a literal 3.5 years (Revelation 12:6,14) represents those in the church who will flee into and remain in divinely-protected wilderness places during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-18), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24.

    The remnant of her seed (Revelation 12:17) represents those in the church during that time who won't flee into wilderness places, but will remain in the cities, and will be persecuted in every nation, imprisoned, and beheaded by the Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

    Also, Genesis 37:9-10 isn't (as is sometimes claimed) being referred to in Revelation 12:1. For in Revelation 12:1, the church/Israel isn't clothed with the man Jacob (Genesis 37:9-10), but with the sun of righteousness (Malachi 4:2), through her faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), just as later we see the church/Israel clothed with righteousness (Revelation 19:8, cf. also Revelation 21:2,9,12). Also, the church/Israel doesn't have the woman Rachel under her feet (Genesis 37:9-10), but Satan (Romans 16:20), as the church/Israel overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Revelation 12:11). And the church/Israel doesn't have Jacob's 12 sons placed over her (Genesis 37:9-10), but the 12 apostles (1 Corinthians 12:28, Matthew 10:2, Acts 1:26), each one of whom will rule over one of her 12 tribes (Matthew 19:28, Luke 22:30).
  12. Bible2

    Bible2 Guest

    Daniel 12:7b means that at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will come to a church which has been completely defeated physically by the Antichrist. For during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign, he will be allowed to make war against the church and to overcome it physically in every nation (Revelation 13:5-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13). It is only when the Antichrist has completely broken all the physical power of the church that the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 will end (Daniel 12:7b), and Jesus' 2nd coming will immediately occur, at which time he will physically resurrect and rapture (gather together) the church (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6). At his 2nd coming, Jesus will tread the winepress of God's wrath alone (Isaiah 63:3, Revelation 19:15-21), and so he/God will get all the glory for defeating the power of evil on the earth (Deuteronomy 32:39-43), for he/God won't share this glory with the church (cf. Isaiah 42:8-14, Isaiah 26:18).
  13. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    The 70 year clock began in 1967. Jerusalem is the fig tree in the parable of the fig tree.

    The time, times, half times expression is nominally 3 1/2 years.
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    Satan will be cast down, limited to earth, around the mid-point of the seven years. He will take opportunity to enter the statue image of the beast and make it appear to come alive - and will demand everyone worship him via the image.

    That image is the abomination of desolation, which is the key for the Jews in Judeah to flee to the mountains. The ones who don't flee in time, as the Remanent of Israel in Revelation 12:17 that Satan and the beast and false prophet will have access to - will be persecuted until Jesus comes to rescue them in Zecharaiah 14.
  15. AlasBabylon

    AlasBabylon Mystic


    Daniel spent almost his entire life in the Babylonian captivity.

    Daniel understood Jeremiah's prophecy about the 70 years.

    During Israel's Babylonian captivity, Jerusalem, the temple and the kingdom
    of Israel [Judah] were totally destroyed and Israelites were removed from
    the Holy Land. In other words, in that 70 year period, the power of God's
    Israel people was totally destroyed.

    This relates to Daniel 12's "time, times and half-time"... the time period it
    takes to totally destroy the power of God's people... a repeat pattern
    of Babylon's 70 year rule and Babylonian captivity at the end of the age.
    I believe we have been in that repeat Biblical/historical pattern since 1945.

    Daniel read God's cryptic message on Babylon's palace wall the same night
    Cyrus' troops secretly invaded and conquered Babylon ending 70 years of
    Babylonian rule.

    " Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin "

    These Aramaic words can be translated literally as, counted and counted,
    weighed and divided."

    counted and counted = times = 40 years

    weighed = time = 20 years

    divided = half-time = 10 years

    40 + 20 + 10 = 70 years.

  16. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    The time, times, and half times is nominally 3 1/2 years. The person known as the little horn will persecute the saints for a time, times, and dividing of time - 3 1/2 years.

    Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

    The length of a generation is nominally 70 years. The three score and ten of Psalms 90. King David died when he was 70 years old.
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2015
  17. AlasBabylon

    AlasBabylon Mystic


    The fig tree... that Jesus cursed because it had no fruit...
    symbolizes the false Edomite "Jews" of the synagogue of satan.

    Edom, Israel's historic enemy, had "converted" to being "Jews"
    in the 2nd century BC so they could live in the kingdom of Israel.

    At the time of Christ, these false Edomite "Jews" had usurped
    the kingdom of Israel and taken over the palace. Herod was an
    Edomite "Jew" placed in power by Rome and proclaimed by Rome
    to be "King of the Jews." Herod exterminated the entire line of
    heirs to the previously ruling Israelite dynasty. Herod tore down
    the old temple, rebuilt, expanded it and put his own people in power.

    This was why God incarnated when He did... a time when most of
    God's people had been in the European/Asian diaspora for hundreds
    of years [and had become "Gentiles"] while the smaller faithful Israel
    remnant in Judea had been totally dispossessed... by both an evil
    pagan empire [Rome] and a foreign Edomite fifth column who now
    not only ruled in the palace and the temple... but claimed to be the
    heirs of the promise [Esau trying to reclaim his inheritance from Jacob.]

    Here is the second important 70 year repeat pattern... Herod's siege of
    Jerusalem in 37BC to the crucifixion, resurrection and ascension of Jesus
    Christ [33AD ?]

    So actually, we are now in the third 70 year repeat Biblical/historic pattern
    which I believe began in 1945.

    Last edited: Mar 8, 2015
  18. AlasBabylon

    AlasBabylon Mystic


    You and I disagree on that symbolic time period.

    You are with the majority consensus... but in this end time of apostasy...
    being one with the majority may not be a good thing.

    I will bring unique Biblical and historical perspectives and interpretations
    to what others may have assumed is not open to discussion.

  19. Bible2

    Bible2 Guest

    Regarding Judaea (Matthew 24:16), note that there are many churches in Judaea (southern Israel) today. And they contain mostly Gentile believers, not just Jewish believers. The church began and has always been in Judaea: "Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea" (Acts 9:31); "the churches of Judaea" (Galatians 1:22); "the churches... in Judaea" (1 Thessalonians 2:14). Matthew 24:16 refers to those in the church, both Gentiles and Jews, who will be living in Judaea at the future point in time when the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31).

    The Antichrist's persecution of the church could begin in Jerusalem and Judaea right after the abomination of desolation is set up, and the Antichrist himself sits in the temple (at least one time) and proclaims himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36). So to avoid this persecution (cf. Matthew 10:23a), those in the church living in Judaea should flee immediately after they see the abomination of desolation set up (Matthew 24:15-16), which event could occur at the midpoint of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, and which event could mark the start of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18). Eventually, the Antichrist's persecution of the church will reach every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13), so that the basic principle of Matthew 24:16, of fleeing (the Antichrist's persecution), would apply to believers around the world.

    Just as the woman in Revelation 12:6 represents many different people in the church around the world, so the protected wilderness place she flees to represents many different, protected wilderness places around the world. When those in the church living in Judaea see the abomination of desolation set up, they should flee into places in the wilderness east of Judaea, the mountains (Matthew 24:16) of Jordan. And those in the church who will be living in places in the world other than Judaea should flee into other wilderness places, mountainous places (Ezekiel 7:16), in the regions of the world where they live.

    And they should have prepared beforehand hideouts in these wilderness/mountain places, hideouts already fully stocked with all of the emergency supplies of food, water, warm clothing, etc., that they and their families and fellow Christians will need to survive (1 Timothy 5:8, Matthew 24:45-46, cf. Genesis 41:48,36, Genesis 45:7) until Jesus returns, possibly on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). For they shouldn't carry any supplies with them when they flee (Matthew 24:17-18). They should flee as unhindered and quickly as possible, knowing that when the abomination of desolation is set up, that could signal the beginning of the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year Luciferian (Satanic) worldwide reign of terror (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), when he will be given power to make war against all Biblical Christians that he can get his hands on, and to physically overcome them and kill them (by beheading) in every nation (Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).
  20. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    United States
    What you are bringing is confusion. The time, times, and half times is the second half of the 70th week of Daniel 9.

    I don't know where you are getting "not open to discussion" in this forum. People can freely post their interpretations.