What is with Turkey?

[mindlight]

Turkey under Erdogan has grown strongly in recent years. Its population is now 76 million and it has a higher GDP growth than just about any other country in the European area. It is growing most strongly in supplying non traditional markets outside the West. Whereas people in the past thought of it as a potential bridge for Western values moving to the Middle east now Turkey is increasingly Islamised and a bridge to problems and people coming from the Middle East into Europe. It is a key NATO ally with access to nuclear bombs by that membership.

Maybe this and the length of time Erdogan has been in power is one of the reasons he thinks he can call sovereign governments exercising their rights in their own countries fascists as he did recently with the Dutch.

What do you think is going on with Turkey? should it be a member of the EU? How should we handle Erdogan?

 

[Paradoxum]

Turkey shouldn't be a member of the EU any time soon.

That it's growth is high is irrelevant. It's easier for developing countries to grow than developed.

 

[mindlight]

Turkey shouldn't be a member of the EU any time soon.

That it's growth is high is irrelevant. It's easier for developing countries to grow than developed.

Turkey is classified as an emerging economy but it is already the worlds 13th largest at PPP. It has a young and hungry population eager to move higher. Even Trump felt the need to congratulate Erdogan on his recent victory.

Macron does not seem to support Turkish membership progression and so there remains a significant block to this in Europes leading members. Also Europe is almost unanimously sceptical about the referendum and the value of Erdogans increasing powers.

So Europe does not want him and now the Americans are arming the Kurds in Syria. What will he do to counter?

 

[Paradoxum]

Turkey is classified as an emerging economy but it is already the worlds 13th largest at PPP. It has a young and hungry population eager to move higher. Even Trump felt the need to congratulate Erdogan on his recent victory.

I don't understand the point you're making with each of these sentences.

Macron does not seem to support Turkish membership progression and so there remains a significant block to this in Europes leading members. Also Europe is almost unanimously sceptical about the referendum and the value of Erdogans increasing powers.

Well Turkey seems fairly authoritarian at the moment, so it probably an't join the EU.

So Europe does not want him and now the Americans are arming the Kurds in Syria. What will he do to counter?

Who knows, but Turkey is part of NATO.

 

[mindlight]

I don't understand the point you're making with each of these sentences.



Well Turkey seems fairly authoritarian at the moment, so it probably an't join the EU.



Who knows, but Turkey is part of NATO.

Point about the first bit is that Turkey is a significant player. Erdogan helped that happen. It is a key NATO ally and NATO base there gives access to much of the Middle East. How we deal with them is effected by their significance.

 

[Paradoxum]

Point about the first bit is that Turkey is a significant player. Erdogan helped that happen. It is a key NATO ally and NATO base there gives access to much of the Middle East. How we deal with them is effected by their significance.

Well I agree I think.

 

[Kalevalatar]

As long as Turkey refuses to recognize the legitimacy of a current EU member state in its neighbourhood it won't be able to join the EU. Of course, the EU stands for democratic governance, the rule of law and respect and protection for human rights, including minority rights, and Turkey under Erdogan has been more keen to move the opposite direction to embrace Putin-style oppressive authocracy. Turkey's reinstatement of death penalty stands as a kiss of goodbye to its EU membership dreams.

As to Turkey's being a "key NATO ally" stands as a stark warning as to exactly what kind of fellow member state Turkey would be: engaged in a perpetual childlish, reckless and useless tit-for-tat buzzing one-upmanship with a fellow NATO member Greece (great use of those prized NATO resources!), and more recently, using its veto so that NATO partners like Finland, next-door-to increasingly aggressive Russia, are barred from taking part in joint exercises and PfP cooperation activities. What a great way for a "key NATO ally" to endanger Europe-wide security in times like this. And the United States of America has the kind of president presently who in all likelyhood in his incedible ignorance thinks it's just "great" and Erdogan is "a great man" and "a great friend of freedom and peace" and some such empty soundbites.

 

[mark46]

IMHO, the rest of NATO should leave Turkey's politics to them. They won't be any EU membership, there is much too much opposition and its doesn't take much.

IMHO, as long as the US and and others are allowed to continue to support and arm the Kurds, I am fine with Turkey having its natural major role in the region. Their influence is likely to increase if the allies are even a little bit successful against the Shia.

 

[Kalevalatar]

European parliament votes to suspend Turkey EU accession talks

The parliament concluded that Turkey has abandoned the fundamental principles of democracy.

Turkey's EU membership was another failed hippie peace&love and flower-strewn-streets idea of George W. Bush.

 

[mindlight]

European parliament votes to suspend Turkey EU accession talks


Turkey's EU membership was another failed hippie peace&love and flower-strewn-streets idea of George W. Bush.

Might have been a bit older than that. Even before the EU Ataturk was moving Turkey in a European and secular direction. The hope was that Turkey could be a bridge to the Islamic world for secularism even Christianity. But as European religious zeal has cooled the direction has been of Islamists to Europe instead.

 

[Kalevalatar]

Might have been a bit older than that. Even before the EU Ataturk was moving Turkey in a European and secular direction. The hope was that Turkey could be a bridge to the Islamic world for secularism even Christianity. But as European religious zeal has cooled the direction has been of Islamists to Europe instead.

Bush, however, specifically backed Turkey's EU membership in exchange of Turkey's support for Bush's little Iraq invasion.

 

[mindlight]

Bush, however, specifically backed Turkey's EU membership in exchange of Turkey's support for Bush's little Iraq invasion.

Which was a very bad deal since they were not that helpful. The broader trend in Turkey from secularism to Islam was reversed under Erdogan.

 

[Kalevalatar]

Which was a very bad deal since they were not that helpful. The broader trend in Turkey from secularism to Islam was reversed under Erdogan.

Exactly. Has there ever been an autocrat who suddenly saw the light, repented and reformed his bad ways and became a solid supporter of human rights and democracy? Ever? And yet the gullible fools fool themselves into believing it could happen if we are nice and kind to them!

 

[mark46]

Bush, however, specifically backed Turkey's EU membership in exchange of Turkey's support for Bush's little Iraq invasion.

The US position on new EU members matters not.

 

[Kalevalatar]

The US position on new EU members matters not.

For some reason, President Bush didn't seem to realize that. He lobbied for Turkey's EU membership for six years!

 

[mindlight]

For some reason, President Bush didn't seem to realize that. He lobbied for Turkey's EU membership for six years!

Actually in fairness to Bush in the early part of his premiership Erdogan expanded religious minority rights and was a success story on the economic front. He was a social conservative doing neoliberal economics which was pretty much Bushes position slso. It was only after Bush left office that he started his Islamist direction and The European dream started to fade for Turkey

 

[Kalevalatar]

Actually in fairness to Bush in the early part of his premiership Erdogan expanded religious minority rights and was a success story on the economic front. He was a social conservative doing neoliberal economics which was pretty much Bushes position slso. It was only after Bush left office that he started his Islamist direction and The European dream started to fade for Turkey

Leopard and spots:

Turkey confiscates some 50 religious properties from Christian minority
Turkish authorities confiscate 50 properties from one of world's oldest Christian communities which fears it is being driven into extinction.

 

[mark46]

Turkey has been a difficult place for Christians for a long time. One of our former priests was a missionary there for years. He shared many stories. We continue to pray for Christians there.

 

[TurkishChristians]

Turkey has been a difficult place for Christians for a long time. One of our former priests was a missionary there for years. He shared many stories. We continue to pray for Christians there.

I am a "Turk" Christian who is converted from Islam. I am the owner of most popular Turkish Christian web network. Life is not extra difficult for us. But, the protestant priests/associations who involved some political movements have some problems.

Türkiye Protestan Kiliseler Birliği, tehditler, IŞİD, Kobane'ye yardım

The lawyer of the association of protestant churches of Turkey were in police custody on charges of being a part of Islamic terrorist organization (Gule Movement):
Protestan Kiliseler Birliği hukuk danışmanı Orhan Kemal Cengiz'e müebbet hapis istemi
Protestan Kiliseler Birliği avukatı Orhan Kemal Cengiz ve eşi gözaltında
Protestan Kiliseler avukatı Orhan Kemal Cengiz'in kurduğu STK'nın üyelerine gözaltı

And, Assyrians support Kurdish Terrorist Organization (PYD) and involved some political things:
Süryani merkezinden HDP başkanı Demirtaş'a destek
Flood Protection Firewall
Flood Protection Firewall
Flood Protection Firewall
Flood Protection Firewall
Flood Protection Firewall
Flood Protection Firewall

One of the nephew of the Patriarch of Assyrian Church were arrested on charges of being a terrorist organization: Flood Protection Firewall

Just one Assyrian priest said good things: Flood Protection Firewall

If your priest friend did not tell you whole story, then you should think about it...

 

[TurkishChristians]

And, Assyrians (even assyrian protestant priests, mission workers) supported Erdogan through facebook-twitter etc. We have told people that political Islamic movements are dangerous and not dependable. But they did not listen local Turkish believers.

So, I think that the problems are not just about "religious" things. It is related about weather of politics...