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What is True Orthodoxy?

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by David Neos, Sep 13, 2019.

  1. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    How could that be defined? Fr. Seraphim Rose talked about it a couple of times:

    "One must certainly criticize the participation of even these latter persons in the ecumenical movement, which at its best is misleading and vague about the nature of Christ's Church; but one cannot call such people 'heretics,' nor can one affirm that any but a few Orthodox representatives have actually taught ecumenism as a heresy. The battle for true Orthodoxy in our times is not aided by such exaggerations."24 In another place Fr. Seraphim said: "The excessive reaction against the ecumenical movement has the same worldly spirit that is present in the ecumenical movement itself."

    What do you guys believe is real Orthodoxy?
     
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  2. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    5 Solas?
     
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  3. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    What are those? :scratch:
     
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  4. mothcorrupteth

    mothcorrupteth Old Whig Monarchist, Classically Realpolitik

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    Protestant sayings.

    You're in the EO forum, "friend of." Nothin' personal, but we don't take kindly to folk littering their theology in our group when we try to do the same kindness to y'all's groups.
     
  5. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My apologies, I thought OP was asking about Orthoxody itself ;)
     
  6. ☦Marius☦

    ☦Marius☦ Orthodox Hillbilly Supporter

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    That is your "orthodoxy", loose as it is. You know good and well your intention at a jab here. One cannot have Orthodoxy without unity and the 5 solas cause nothing but disunity and are therefore not Orthodox.

    For something to be Orthodox it must be true. The Solas have created thousands of "truths"
     
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  7. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Didn't realize I was in EO forum. On phone atm. What is your answer for the OP, then?
     
  8. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    real Orthodoxy is the local Orthodox Church, struggling to preserve what has been handed down without alteration.

    Old Calendarists and Ecumenists are two sides of the same worldly and heterodox coin.
     
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  9. ☦Marius☦

    ☦Marius☦ Orthodox Hillbilly Supporter

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    True Orthodoxy is where those who follow the full teachings of the NT, the ones who obeyed Paul's commandments to listen to the Church elders and their teachings that they wrote down for us, pray and repent in earnest humility. Orthodoxy is very simple. It is in itself the Christian life in complete obedience to God, and in complete denial of self. I think that the EOC is the only Church in the world to actually keep any one person from deciding doctrine, instead waiting on the Holy Spirit to decide doctrine through the councils, and I think the EOC is more alive spiritually than any other Church I've seen. I've seen true grace,humility, and holiness within the Orthodox people (myself not included as I am incredibly weak and still overcoming my Baptist upbringing).

    All I can say is that those few things hit you like a truck when you see them in their purest forms. It was that which converted me to the truth long before I picked up a single book on Orthodox theology. "Ye shall know them by their fruits".
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
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  10. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's rather compelling. Thank you for sharing that
     
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  11. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    By local do you mean as the one people go in the city?

    And why are they part of the same coin when they look so different?
     
  12. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    I mean whichever parish is closest.

    because in their pride they think they are above the Church.
     
  13. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    Something I never understood is what makes a Church canonical and the others non-canonical. Do you know the rationale for that Father?
     
  14. ☦Marius☦

    ☦Marius☦ Orthodox Hillbilly Supporter

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    Usually a church becomes non-canonical after splitting off from its local Bishop or Archdiocese. Most of the time it has to do with belief disputes, but not always.
     
  15. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Sleep is for the weak

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    ♫...breaking the law, breaking the law...♫

    hehe
     
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  16. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    I don't think outlaws are Lent friendly. ;)
     
  17. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    are they in communion with the historic Church, professing the same theology.
     
  18. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    But hasn't the historical communions being corrupted for a few times? Like when most if the historical Patriarchs believed in Monothelism?
     
  19. ArmyMatt

    ArmyMatt Regular Member Supporter

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    sure, but there were always correct believers in the Body, that purged out the heresy.
     
  20. David Neos

    David Neos Catechumen

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    Father, how would you answer to this text that makes it sound like St. Maximus the Confessor went into schism?:

    From The Life of Our Holy Father St. Maximus the Confessor
    The life of Saint Maximus is also instructive for us. Saint Maximus, though only a simple monk, resisted and cut off communion with every patriarch, metropolitan, archbishop and bishop in the East because of their having been infected with the heresy of Monothelitism. During the first imprisonment of the Saint, the messengers from the Ecumenical Patriarch asked him,

    "To which church do you belong? To that of Byzantium, of Rome, Antioch, Alexandria, or Jerusalem? For all these churches, together with the provinces in subjection to them, are in unity. Therefore, if you also belong to the Catholic Church, enter into communion with us at once, lest fashioning for yourself some new and strange pathway, you fall into that which you do not even expect!"

    To this the righteous man wisely replied, "Christ the Lord called that Church the Catholic Church which maintains the true and saving confession of the Faith. It was for this confession that He called Peter blessed, and He declared that He would found His Church upon this confession. However, I wish to know the contents of your confession, on the basis of which all churches, as you say, have entered into communion. If it is not opposed to the truth, then neither will I be separated from it."

    The confession which they were proposing to the Saint was not Orthodox, of course, and so he refused to comply with their coercions. Furthermore, they were lying about the See of Rome which, in fact, had remained Orthodox. Some time later, at his last interrogation by the Byzantine authorities, the following dialogue took place:

    The Saint said, "They [the Patriarchs of Constantinople and Alexandria and all the other heretical bishops of the East] have been deposed and deprived of the priesthood at the local synod which took place recently in Rome. What Mysteries, then, can they perform? Or what spirit will descend upon those who are ordained by them?"

    "Then you alone will be saved, and all others will perish?" they objected.

    To this the Saint replied, "When all the people in Babylon were worshipping the golden idol, the Three Holy Children did not condemn anyone to perdition. They did not concern themselves with the doings of others, but took care only for themselves, lest they should fall away from true piety. In precisely the same way, when Daniel was cast into the lion's den, he did not condemn any of those who, fulfilling the law of Darius, did not wish to pray to God, but he kept in mind his own duty, and desired rather to die than to sin against his conscience by transgressing the Law of God. God forbid that I should condemn anyone or say that I alone am being saved! However, I shall sooner agree to die than to apostatize in any way from the true Faith and thereby suffer torments of conscience."

    "But what will you do," inquired the envoys, "when the Romans are united to the Byzantines? Yesterday, indeed, two delegates arrived from Rome and tomorrow, the Lord's day, they will communicate the Holy Mysteries with the Patriarch. "

    The Saint replied, "Even if the whole universe holds communion with the Patriarch, I will not communicate with him. For I know from the writings of the holy Apostle Paul: the Holy Spirit declares that even the angels would be anathema if they should begin to preach another Gospel, introducing some new teaching."

    As history has demonstrated, Saint Maximus—who was only a simple monk and not even ordained—and his two disciples were the ones who were Orthodox, and all those illustrious, famous and influential Patriarchs and Metropolitans whom the Saint had written against were the ones who were in heresy. When the Sixth Ecumenical Synod was finally convened, among those condemned for heresy were four Patriarchs of Constantinople, one Pope of Rome, one Patriarch of Alexandria, two Patriarchs of Antioch and a multitude of other Metropolitans, Archbishops and Bishops. During all those years, that one simple monk was right, and all those notable bishops were wrong. (pp. 60-62)
     
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