What is "tough love" and are you a fan of it?

[Hidden In Him]

Post cleared up.

 

[The Brown Brink]

What wisdom is there in using violence to stop violence?
It only breeds more violence.
Is that what Jesus says we're supposed to do?
Breed violence?

 

[Hidden In Him]

What wisdom is there in using violence to stop violence?
It only breeds more violence.
Is that what Jesus says we're supposed to do?
Breed violence?

Without realizing it, you are accusing Christ Jesus of abusiveness, and of breeding violence by His behavior. The Lord is telling me to simply pray that you are brought to the place where you hear His gentle rebuke, and your heart is broken to realize you were sinning against Him, His word, and His Heart for you, and for all people.

Don't let the Devil overcome you emotionally by my response. As always, I'm simply speaking to you from the Spirit of God in love.

 

[ValleyGal]

When did Jesus hit anybody?

 

[Hidden In Him]

When did Jesus hit anybody?

Is Jesus God, and the equivalent of our Lord in both the Old and New Testaments?

 

[Monna]

Tough love means not enabling someone.

How does this line up with God's love for us? It is his (tough) love that underpins his goal that we become mature, that we ultimately growth to "the fullness of Christ," that we become truly free through truth, that we become all we were born to be. He promised his disciples "you will be able (enabled!) to everything you see me doing - and even more marvellous works." His love is the great enabler.

As in many things he ways are quite different from ours. Perhaps I am wrong, but I get the feeling that many ideas of "tough love" for our kids is based on getting them to behave as we think they should. Or the idea "you should do what I say, because I say it and I'm your mother/father (and implied 'you owe me obedience.') Is there a subconscious, hidden wish to avoid another Garden of Eden "fall" by our children, and a lack of understanding that God's tough love required giving Adam and Eve the right and freedom to make their own choice - even if it turned out to be disastrous to them? His tough love also had a ready-made plan of what he would do if and when they did. He did not give up on them, but their redemption required an enormous cost to himself.

Our concepts of fairness, of justice, are built around the idea of payback, of punishment. We want a confession of a crime so we can feel justified in meting our what we (our societies) think are appropriate punishments. God's justice system says, confession of sin is the prerequisite for forgiveness, healing and restoration of relationship.

We think tough love is about doing or saying something that the object of our love will think is hard or tough or undesirable. But tough love is really about the lover making decisions that are tough for him or her. It's things like avoiding using the TV as a baby sitter so I can do the things I think are priorities, instead of giving up my priorities to spent time with my child, building deeper relationship and wholesome values, rather than those demonstrated on the TV. Taking more time and effort to be creative in actively loving my child no matter what the cost to me.

Did I practice this? NO! and I am deeply sorry now. Fortunately I get a second chance through my grandchildren and my adult children. But with less life left to live, and still so much I want to do, the decisions are just as hard or harder for me.

 

[Fabric lover]

Would you give a drug addict money? No, you wouldn't. You wouldn't want to enable him or her to continue to do drugs.

 

[ValleyGal]

When my teenage daughter ran away from home, she called and told me I needed to choose between her and my husband (her stepfather). I chose him. That infuriated her.

Wow, that just breaks my heart, that you would abandon your own child. I see now you are celibate, so I assume there is an issue in your relationship with your husband now. And there is likely still an issue with your daughter, having been rejected by the one person in the world who is supposed to love her more than anyone. Your relationships appear to be a little messy. Any regrets?

But anyone who teaches that there are never instances or particular children who need a swift kick in the pants should take a moment to consider how much violence there is in this world, and how much of it could have been prevented had there been a strong authority figure in their lives as a child.

It is possible to have strong authority without physical punishment. It's not about personality. It's about relationship. Your children are more likely to be obedient when they are motivated by love and respect for their parental authority rather than by fear of being caught and spanked. If you had no respect for your parental caregiver, then I can see why you might think that spankings were a good deterrent, but you mention how much violence is in the world.... the reason is not lack of physical punishment; the reason is lack of relational connection, attunement that leads to secure attachment. Study after study supports what I'm saying. And the Bible supports it too. The Bible says that if you know someone has something against you, go and repair the relationship. Same with if you have something against someone - we are called to forgive and to mend our relationships.

 

[ValleyGal]

Is Jesus God, and the equivalent of our Lord in both the Old and New Testaments?

Okay. When did God hit anybody?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Okay. When did God hit anybody?

Well, I'm glad you asked. But don't cheat by limiting the discussing down to merely the word "hit." The discussion is about the use of punishment, and with God you are taking about potentially administering physical illness and even death upon those who walk in disobedience.

Do you believe there is scriptural evidence to support this or no?

 

[Fabric lover]

Wow, that just breaks my heart, that you would abandon your own child. I see now you are celibate, so I assume there is an issue in your relationship with your husband now. And there is likely still an issue with your daughter, having been rejected by the one person in the world who is supposed to love her more than anyone. Your relationships appear to be a little messy. Any regrets?

You are very quick to make an incorrect assumption, Valleygal. You will never know how wrong you are because I don't intend to go into detail about my personal life, especially with you.

Have you considered that a person can be celibate due to the death or illness of a spouse?

Regrets? Definitely. I shouldn't have joined in this discussion. Too many confused people here.

 

[ValleyGal]

I believe that those who are adopted as sons and daughters of Father God are disciplined through teaching through the Word, guided by the Word and by the Spirit. I do not believe God punishes those who he adopts. Rather, punishment is left for those who choose not to be adopted as sons and daughters - and that punishment is eternal separation from him.

 

[ValleyGal]

You are very quick to make an incorrect assumption, Valleygal. You will never know how wrong you are because I don't intend to go into detail about my personal life, especially with you.

Have you considered that a person can be celibate due to the death or illness of a spouse?

Regrets? Definitely. I shouldn't have joined in this discussion. Too many confused people here.

I admitted that it was an assumption. So that's fine. If there are other reasons for celibacy, great. Still, it breaks my heart that you would abandon your own child in favor of a man who came along after she did.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I believe that those who are adopted as sons and daughters of Father God are disciplined through teaching through the Word, guided by the Word and by the Spirit. I do not believe God punishes those who he adopts. Rather, punishment is left for those who choose not to be adopted as sons and daughters - and that punishment is eternal separation from him.

Ok, then who is being referred to in 1 Corinthians 11:20-32, especially verse 30?

 

[Fabric lover]

I admitted that it was an assumption. So that's fine. If there are other reasons for celibacy, great. Still, it breaks my heart that you would abandon your own child in favor of a man who came along after she did.

Again, refrain from making incorrect assumptions out of ignorance. Let it go. It's none of your business.

 

[ValleyGal]

Again, refrain from making incorrect assumptions out of ignorance. Let it go. It's none of your business.

Then why bring it up? Whatever.

 

[ValleyGal]

Ok, then who is being referred to in 1 Corinthians 11:20-32, especially verse 30?

I have no idea and have no time for a study right now. I gave my advice in this thread. I think I will bow out before it becomes a bible study. Suffice it to say that whoever was speaking was simply not praising... positive reinforcement for ill behaviour is not "tough love" nor is it punitive. It is simply not praising ill behaviour.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

But anyone who teaches that there are never instances or particular children who need a swift kick in the pants should take a moment to consider how much violence there is in this world, and how much of it could have been prevented had there been a strong authority figure in their lives as a child.

I think if you spank a two year old when he has a tantrum, you wont need to do it again. Just they need to learn that they cant get their own way in life all the time. Problem is, once I say something like this, the PC brigade will jump on me for suggesting such "unnecessary violence."

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

When my teenage daughter ran away from home, she called and told me I needed to choose between her and my husband (her stepfather). I chose him. That infuriated her.

Glad you didn't give in to such an ultimatum.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Problem is, once I say something like this, the PC brigade will jump on me for suggesting such "unnecessary violence."

My very first thought. It's been really bad today, too. The "Stripper Club" thread was a flying nightmare. Good luck on your end, but if I were you I'd watch it right now. Then again, maybe I'm just worn out or something.
Rarely if ever drink, but tonight may be a Corona night.