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What is this necessary “Wedding Garment”?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Minister Monardo, Nov 1, 2020.

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  1. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    Stick to the topic, stay on topic with the passages in Hebrews 12 describing a son.
     
  2. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    That is what you falsely assume of me. You know nothing about me. You just are throwing false accusations at me with no real evidence. I told you I only confide in those I trust. You are not somebody I trust because you are hell bent on justifying that believers can sin and still be saved. But God's grace is not a license for immorality (Jude 1:4).

    This is a common tactic in your camp. You do not understand that even when we speak today, we use slang or metaphor mingled in with literal communication. Just because one part is metaphor, does not mean the whole entire thing is metaphor. Besides, Jesus warned elsewhere of sins' destruction to our souls if we do not repent (confess and forsake sin). In Matthew 6:15, Jesus says that if we do not forgive, the Father will not forgive us. This is a condition we have to meet in order to receive forgiveness and or salvation. Just as we have to not look at women in lust (in regards to adultery and fornication), otherwise our whole body can be cast into hellfire.

    A believer should not be hypocritical. If they are being a hypocrite, and it is in regards to them doing mortal sin, then they will be condemned by God. But if OSAS is true, it doesn't matter how you live and you can be a hypocrite and still be saved by having a belief on Jesus. For if a believer tells people to follow the Bible that has righteous instruction and yet they turn around and do not follow those instructions, they are only bring damnation upon themselves.

    As for 1 John 1:9:

    You still are not reading this verse and believing it at face value.

    “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” (1 John 1:9).​

    It says IF we confess our sins.
    IF is a conditional statement. IF I take out the garbage, I will not have a smelly garage.
    IF I stay away from foods that will make me fat, I will be in better shape physically.

    IF we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.
    You want to be forgiven before even confessing of sin.
    Forgiveness in the Bible deals with salvation.
    A person cannot be unforgiven and still be saved.

    But you propogate a gospel that is no gospel at all. People can be misled to think they can sin and still be saved by your belief. There is no real change. For God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). The purpose Christ died for us was to sanctify us with the washing of the water of the Word so that Christ can present to Himself a church that is holy and without spot and blemish (See: Ephesians 5:25-27). You just assumed I sin because you believe everyone sins. So you believe that salvation is not in living holy for the Lord, but it is by sinning with you being saved because you have a belief alone on Jesus. But even the demons believe and tremble.
     
  3. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I already told you and you would not listen.
     
  4. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    likewise
     
  5. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Not true. I gave you plenty of verses that refute your false thinking, and you just ignored them. A true son or child of God does righteousness (See: 1 John 2:29). We can know the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil in the fact that he that does not righteousness and neither loves his brother is not of God (See: 1 John 3:10). So a son is not really a son if they do not eventually do righteousness. This does not mean that a son cannot occasionally stumble at times, but they need to confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy and or to be a living son. God gives men chances to change their ways. If they are chastised, it is because God knows they can be corrected of the wrong behavior.
     
  6. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    I gave you the context of a son who remains a son which contradicts your beliefs from Hebrews 12. Nowhere does it even hint that a son does not remain a son. It says the son is disciplined.

    Do you have children ?
    Do you have a son ?
    If so he is always your son regardless if you deny it.

    hope this helps !!!
     
  7. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    1 John 3:10 KJB
    “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”

    Children is another way of saying son. So according to 1 John 3:10, a true child of God (a son) vs. the children of the devil is that whoever does not righteousness is not of God (i.e. they are not a son), and neither he that loves his brother. Meaning, this is in reference to not occasional times a believer may stumble or go prodigal whereby he is chastened to be corrected of their wrong behavior, but this is in reference to their overall life in how they live for the Lord. They generally walk upright and they do not justify the idea that they can sin and still be saved.
     
  8. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    You do not understand how God regards sons in the Bible.
    You ignore those very verses I put forth to you.
    Obviously if your son was Hitller and he was seeking to kill you and the rest of the family, you would not welcome him into your home to kill the rest of your family (unless you didn't care about them). Sin has deadly consequences that you ignore. God cannot agree with sin.

    Anyways, I am going to ingore your posts because you do not actually deal with any of the verses I put forth to you. I pointed out how you ignored the context of Hebrews 12 (i.e. verse 14). No doubt you did not quote that verse because it condemns your wrong belief.
     
  9. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    I understand just fine I don't buy into your version of it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2020
  10. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    A master may chasten his dog in pooping on the carpet. What is the intended goal of the master chastening his dog (like yelling, “bad dog, do not do that.” and lightly smacking them and pointing to their messy mistake). The goal is not to just endlessly keep pointing out the dog's wrong behavior with no real change in the animal's behavior. The goal is to get the animal to stop pooping on the carpets. That is the goal of chastening. To get the dog to stop.

    So chastening is for occasional mishaps whereby one changes, and chastening is not a way of life. For what is a bastard? How does one define the difference between the two? For remember, a bastard is without chastening. Are you being chastened by the Lord? My guess is that if a believer is justifying sin, they are not being chastened by God.
     
  11. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member

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    BH,
    You are insisting that a son "does righteousness", and insist that means always being good, or
    "eventually" never sinning, as if.
    This is some serious hedging on your position, which is tainted by the knowledge of good and evil.
    The righteousness of God is that you remain open before God [purpose = shewbread],and accept His discipline. Hitlerian extremes aside, we are talking about children of God striving to live a life well pleasing to Our Father.
    David is given as our example, the sure mercies of David is our covenant. Do you remember Paul
    teaching in Romans from this Psalm?
    Psalm 32:
    1
    Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven,
    Whose sin is covered.
    2 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity,
    And in whose spirit there is no deceit.
    3 When I kept silent
    , my bones grew old
    Through my groaning all the day long.
    4 For day and night Your hand was heavy upon me;
    My vitality was turned into the drought of summer. Selah
    5 I acknowledged my sin to You,

    And my iniquity I have not hidden.
    I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,”
    And You forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah
    6
    For this cause everyone who is godly shall pray to You
    .......
    10 Many sorrows shall be to the wicked;
    But he who trusts in the Lord, mercy shall surround him.
    11 Be glad in the Lord and rejoice, you righteous;
    And shout for joy, all you upright in heart!

    Your eagerness to condemn all Christians who you do not feel are doing well enough
    in striving against sin with your commitment is a highly unmerciful position
    to take, and you do greatly err in this unnecessary argument.
    Please forgive me for being so blunt, but this discussion was grieving the Holy Spirit,
    or else I would have "let the children play".

    Psalm 52:8. But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God:
    I trust in the mercy of God for ever and ever.
    Matthew 5:7.
    Blessed are the merciful,
    For they shall obtain mercy.
     
  12. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    And all of Gods children/sons said AMEN !
     
  13. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    I am referring to mortal sin. Believers have to overcome sin that the Bible specifically condemns.

    For be not deceived, the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

    We all need the mercy of God. Without God's grace, no man can be forgiven. God also gives us many chances. I do not deny that King David and or other believers had sinned. But they did not stay in their sins and or refuse to confess of their sins and to forsake them. For why else are we to work out our salvation with fear and trembling if sin does not keep us out of the kingdom? It would be like a man cheating on his wife with him expecting her to stay with him. If all he did was say he was sorry and there is no eventual change in his behavior, then he is not really sorry about what he is doing. He would be just saying what she wants to hear while he can love his sin while thinking he could also love her, too. Trusting in the mercy of God while one remains in their sins is no mercy or salvation at all.

    As for Matthew 5:7:

    You also have to keep reading Matthew 5. For it says in verse 8,

    “Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” (Matthew 5:8).

    Obviously a person who justifies the idea that they can sin and still be saved is not pure in heart.
    John 3:20 says all who do evil hate the light.
    Jesus says, “A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.” (Matthew 12:35).

    1 John 3:7 says that he that does righteousness is righteous.
    1 John 3:10 basically says that we can know the difference between the children of God, vs. the children of the devil by the fact that he that does not righteousness and neither loves his brother is not of God. 1 John 3:8 says that he that sins is of the devil. For Jesus said by their fruits you will know them.
     
  14. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Also, have you ever slowly read and thought about the words in Job 1:1, Luke 1:5-6, and Revelation 14:3-5? My guess is that you have to reject these words in Scripture or you have to alter them in order to make your belief so. I mean, do you even believe 2 Corinthians 7:1? I just do not see how that is possible by what you say.
     
  15. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    typical of you- a text without its context is a pretext for a proof text. you always prooftext scripture rather than reading the context and understanding them within their setting. You tear them out to prove your ideas which is known as eisegesis not exegesis. You read your doctrines into scripture hence the proof-texting.

    I can do the same thing with faith passages and prooftext those to say works are not necessary.

    hope this helps !!!
     
  16. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member

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    I Agree
    There Is Sin Unto Death
    Yes, to me righteousness is to remain in light, to desire your faults to be exposed by the Spirit,
    as you strive to overcome sin. Conversely, unrighteousness is not in sliding into sin, but in trying
    to hide what cannot be hidden. We must be as shewbread before Him.

    Hebrews 12:3. For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls.
    4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin.

    1 John 3:
    19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him.
    20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.
    21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God.

    He Delights In Mercy
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2020
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    To all:

    Test the Scriptures for yourselves. Many will say that I may be quoting things out of context, but then they do not prove that with the Scriptures. They like to quote certain verses out of context themselves and ignore many other verses that condemn their belief. Just read your Bible and you will see it for yourself. Test everything with the Word of God. But most today want to justify the idea that they can sin and still be saved. Like they actually think the Bible teaches this kind of distorted view of salvation. I can only pray that they will change their minds in time before they have to face the Lord.
     
  18. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Hebrews 12:3 is not suggesting that we will always struggle or strive against sin in this life. Many who believe that we can sin and still be saved use this as an excuse, when this should be a means of identifying the problem so as to resolve the problem. For have you ever read Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, and 2 Corinthians 7:1? If so, do you believe them?
     
  19. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member

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    I most certainly believe in this scripture. I also know by experience the battle involved and how
    corrupt our flesh nature is in hostility to the Lord's efforts. At 65, I know how far He has brought me,
    and in my lowest state, I never felt that I had been cut off from being a son. I am not arguing your position on sin, but your willingness to declare other Christians as not true children, when you don't
    really know what they are striving with. There is definitely an easy gospel that accommodates a casual
    lifestyle that tolerates many things that aren't even recognized as sins, and could be overcome with
    faithfulness to the Lord's working in us. Yes, I believe in striving against sin. If this is your concern,
    which I believe it is, we are called to encourage and exhort to continue to press into righteousness.
    I am not ready to be the one who cuts anyone off without a serious and honest reckoning. I just think
    it helps to acknowledge how filthy you truly are before you start throwing 2 Corinthians 7:1 around.
    I can say in full sincerity, as Paul, "Jesus Christ came to save sinners, among whom I am chief".
     
  20. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member

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    I am not an apologist for anyone who makes no effort to worship the Lord in Spirit and Truth.
    A common tell is someone who says "he knows my heart", while refusing to pursue righteousness.
    Oh yeah, He knows our hearts alright.
     
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