What is the theology of putting on the mind of Christ?

[joymercy]

What is the theology of putting on the mind of Christ?

Is it obtainable in our lifetime?

Thank you for your ideas and support.

God bless you.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

What is the theology of putting on the mind of Christ?

Is it obtainable in our lifetime?

Thank you for your ideas and support.

God bless you.

It is the same as "walking in the Holy Spirit", " put on the full armor ", "stay the course", new man, circumcision of the heart, etc. It is the promised regeneration through the power of His Holy Spirit. One attains this through belief followed by His Holy Spirit Baptism. He makes His home in you. Blessings.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Abba Lot came to Abba Joseph and said: Father, according as I am able, I keep my little rule, and my little fast, my prayer, meditation and contemplative silence; and, according as I am able, I strive to cleanse my heart of thoughts: now what more should I do? The elder rose up in reply and stretched out his hands to heaven, and his fingers became like ten lamps of fire. He said: Why not become fire?

 

[The Liturgist]

It is the same as "walking in the Holy Spirit", " put on the full armor ", "stay the course", new man, circumcision of the heart, etc. It is the promised regeneration through the power of His Holy Spirit. One attains this through belief followed by His Holy Spirit Baptism. He makes His home in you. Blessings.

Please read the Traditional Theology Statement Of Purpose before posting here.

 

[The Liturgist]

What is the theology of putting on the mind of Christ?

Is it obtainable in our lifetime?

Thank you for your ideas and support.

God bless you.

I think so, through asceticism and continual prayer. Specifically, I suggest you look into the Hesychast tradition, which is accessible to laity as well as religious (the definitive layman’s guide is On The Prayer of Jesus, by St. Ignatius Brianchaninov).

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Please read the Traditional Theology Statement Of Purpose before posting here.

Thank you for the reminder. Sounds like the Holy Spirit is welcome here.
Blessings.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

As TheLiturgist says, Eastern theology is focused on this approach. We're called to pray continuously, and in hesychism or quietness, this is through repetition of the Jesus prayer with a prayer rope, similar to the Catholic rosary. Each time the prayer is said, you advance one knot. Typically these have 33, 50 or 100 knots. FYI, this practice is done under the guidance of a priest with a prayer rule.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

 

[The Liturgist]

As TheLiturgist says, Eastern theology is focused on this approach. We're called to pray continuously, and in hesychism or quietness, this is through repetition of the Jesus prayer with a prayer rope, similar to the Catholic rosary. Each time the prayer is said, you advance one knot. Typically these have 33, 50 or 100 knots. FYI, this practice is done under the guidance of a priest with a prayer rule.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Unfortunately many traditional Christians do not have priests who can guide them in Hesychasm, however, my understanding is that just saying the Jesus Prayer frequently with or without a prayer rope is universally thought to be harmless (I am basing this on Metropolitan Kallistos Ware and various other writers, especially St. Ignatius Brianchaninov).

According to Kallistos Ware its the more intense monastic form of Hesychasm which can feature breathing techniques et cetera that really should not be attempted outside of a monastery.

Fortunately Roman Catholics can access information on Hesychasm and get a prayer rule from Eastern Catholic clergy, because even if one is Roman Rite, one can go to an Eastern Catholic liturgy or monastery.

The Anglicans also used the Jesus Prayer when implementing their Anglican Rosary.

So just to be clear @GreekOrthodox I am not disagreeing with you; ideally people would have an Orthodox priest with knowledge of Hesychasm, which sadly a great many of them lack, indeed, there are even a number of monasteries without Hesychasm, and it has nearly died off a few times, only to be saved by dedicated men of prayer, most recently I believe the generation of Elder Panteleimon and Elder Joseph on Mount Athos in the early 20th century. And it had also almost died when St. Nicodemus the Hagiorite and St. Macarius of Corinth worked to revive it and published the Philokalia as, among other things, a guidebook. But to do full on Hesychasm in spiritual health, an Eastern or Oriental Orthodox confessor, usually monastic (in the OO community, I think most hesychasm is happening in Coptic monasteries, where it was bolstered by Fr. Lazarus el Antony, the Australian anchorite who lives in a cave near the Cave of St. Anthony, where he liturgizes nightly). Fr. Lazarus began his monastic career as a novice in a Serbian Orthodox monastery in Australia, which, to the credit of the Orthodox Church, was the only one willing to accept a non-member who had been an atheist, who had come to believe in Christ and wanted to convert and become a monk right off the street.

However, I don’t think it would have anything other than positive effects if people learned to say the Jesus prayer and said it frequently. And doing that really isn’t Hesychasm, its just saying the Jesus Prayer.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Morning Liturgist,
Normally, the parish priest will help provide guidance for prayer and fasting rules especially for those who are new. "Convertitis" is pretty common as I had it myself. Someone invariably decides that they are going to read the Philokalia, the Ladder, and heaven forbid, the Rudder and follow monastic rules. These are the seeds that falls on the ground and briefly flourishes but dies because it has no roots.

Met. Jonah has a great article on why laity need to be cautious about visiting monasteries.

Five Good Reasons NOT to Visit a Monastery- By: Metropolitan Jonah of the OCA

 

[Clintpauljohnson]

Matthew 6:6-7

 

[tdidymas]

What is the theology of putting on the mind of Christ?

Is it obtainable in our lifetime?

Thank you for your ideas and support.

God bless you.

1 Cor. 2:16 “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

I take it you are referring to this verse? It says "we have," not "put on." But if you want to have the mind of Christ, you have to read His words given to us in the gospels (in some Bibles it's the red letters).

How do I know this is what Paul meant by the statement? It's the concluding statement of his discussion about the gospel he taught them, of 1 Cor. 1:18 - 2:16. In Paul's writings he refers many times to the statements of Christ written in the gospels.

And in Heb. 1:2 "but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son" and since we know Christ spoke His mind, that's how we get it, by knowing what He spoke.

The point is that the mind of Christ is clearly laid out for us, and is not some mystical idea that is obtained through prayer or sacraments. If we want to pray the will of God (1 John 5:14), we have to know what the will of God is, which is in the words of Christ written in the gospels.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

The incarnation of Christ and the work of the Church aim at enabling the person to attain to the likeness of God, that is to reestablish communion with God. This passage way from a fallen state to divinization is called the healing of the person, because it is connected with his return from a state of being contrary to nature, to that of a state according to nature and above nature. By adhering to Orthodox therapeutic treatment as conceived by the Holy Fathers of the Church man can cope successfully with the thoughts (logismoi) and thus solve his problems completely and comprehensively. - Met. Hierotheos Vlachos

 

[The Liturgist]

Morning Liturgist,
Normally, the parish priest will help provide guidance for prayer and fasting rules especially for those who are new. "Convertitis" is pretty common as I had it myself. Someone invariably decides that they are going to read the Philokalia, the Ladder, and heaven forbid, the Rudder and follow monastic rules. These are the seeds that falls on the ground and briefly flourishes but dies because it has no roots.

Met. Jonah has a great article on why laity need to be cautious about visiting monasteries.

Five Good Reasons NOT to Visit a Monastery- By: Metropolitan Jonah of the OCA

Indeed, and these focus on Prelest. I agree with everything Metropolitan Jonah has to say. I do have some comments:

You would think Bill would realize he was in Prelest, but, people who are spiritually deluded never realize it on their own except through the usual grace of the Holy Spirit. Also, Bill clearly went to a marginal monastery or a schismatic monastery, if there was a defrocked priest who was willing to leave the monastery to serve in a parish, and what kind of Hegumen would give him a blessing for that. However, this is why Orthodox Christians should, in my opinion, always get a blessing from their priest for the monastery they want to visit if possible, except in the case of your archdiocese, where there does exist a strong and unwarranted objection to Elder Ephrem’s fully canonical monasteries among some clergy, but if the parish priest is not of that opinion, his blessing should be sought. The blessing of the Bishop or Archbishop could be sought otherwise, because they did permit Elder Ephrem to build his monasteries. My conscience requires me to carve out an exception for Elder Ephrem from the standard customs, because the view regarding his monasteries of some of the more liberal parish priests is well documented.

But if someone goes to, say, an Old Calendarist monastery like Holy Transfiguration, convertitis is going to result; indeed convertitis seems rampant in the Old Calendarist churches. And their clergy are often defrocked priests from the canonical church. As an added concern, Holy Transfiguration’s hegumen Elder Panteleimon, who was a spiritual brother of Elder Ephrem, had a fall from grace that resulted in ROCOR breaking communion with his monastery and the affiliated parishes of HOCNA, and that was complaints of him sexually abusing novice monks, and the truth finally came to light and he died in disgrace two years later.

One final point - if non Orthodox visit a monastery, or if people go to join a monastery, concerns about convertitis are not applicable. Some people convert after experiencing Orthodoxy through her monasteries and churches, most do not. And of people who go to the monastery to join, if the hegumen accepts them, any reputable hegumen in the US will warn them of the harships of their vocation, and the novice master will, if they are accepted, take charge of their spiritual life. Even then, cases exist of novices going bezerk and even relatively seasoned monks, such as a famous monk from the Great Lavra in Kiev, falling into prelest. In that case, actually two famous monks fell into prelest, and both were restored to health by the brethren, but in other cases, even at monasteries in the US, prelest does cause monks to go insane and die.

It is sad, but its a risk associated with monasticism, which has always been regarded as “the white martyrdom,” for the monk who lives still has to die to the world.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Morning everyone,
Liturgist, let's get our focus back on Joy here before we confuse her too badly (as we could easily go down that route).

Joy, since you are Catholic, I would talk with your priest about establishing a daily prayer rule. This may be attending Mass during the week if possible or reading out of the daily Missal along with some kind of fast. For example, Eastern Orthodox do not eat animal products on Wednesdays or Fridays. There may be some other things your priest might suggest such as reading some of the Catholic devotional material such as St. John of the Cross's "Dark Night of the Soul". Regular confession would be an excellent time to discuss how your spiritual life is going and fine tuning your practice.

 

[joymercy]

@GreekOrthodox
In my search for meaning and truth, I'm being drawn to the readings of the desert fathers. Your input is greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[joymercy]

@GreekOrthodox @The Liturgist and others here

Seems that a way of "being" is the same as having the mind of Christ

and that "doing" is a result of that "being"

is being fire, burning with pure love for Him in your experiences?

How does one trim their wicks spiritually so that they do not smolder?

 

[GreekOrthodox]

@GreekOrthodox @The Liturgist and others here

Seems that a way of "being" is the same as having the mind of Christ
and that "doing" is a result of that "being"
is being fire, burning with pure love for Him in your experiences?
How does one trim their wicks spiritually so that they do not smolder?

Well, as St. Seraphim of Sarov, said "Acquire a peaceful spirit and thousands of souls around you will be saved." As for trimming a wick, maybe I would think that as secular laity, we're called to be in the world. Therefore, we have a different calling as Christians than monastics or the clergy. We have to face the world in our own way with humility. I work in a hospital working with clinicians to help in communicating with each other. Tomorrow, I'm going to be working in a new area, the operating rooms. Ill be observing a couple of surgical procedures and I don't like even watching my own blood being drawn. Talk about humility where the people I'm going to be helping do this on a daily basis. I've been trying to watch some various surgical videos to hopefully keep from running out of the room, throwing up, or just for good measure, pass out on the staff.

 

[joymercy]

Well, as St. Seraphim of Sarov, said "Acquire a peaceful spirit and thousands of souls around you will be saved." As for trimming a wick, maybe I would think that as secular laity, we're called to be in the world. Therefore, we have a different calling as Christians than monastics or the clergy. We have to face the world in our own way with humility. I work in a hospital working with clinicians to help in communicating with each other. Tomorrow, I'm going to be working in a new area, the operating rooms. Ill be observing a couple of surgical procedures and I don't like even watching my own blood being drawn. Talk about humility where the people I'm going to be helping do this on a daily basis. I've been trying to watch some various surgical videos to hopefully keep from running out of the room, throwing up, or just for good measure, pass out on the staff.

Thank you for your imput, I will have to be still and reflect on this...God bless you richly for your graciousness.

As far as disgust for the human body, after a while, one usually gets used to dealing with the blood and "gore" if you will, after working around it for a few months.

Several months in, the incredible complexity and beauty of the human body may become so absorbing, that you will most likely even forget where you are and what you are doing. It can even deepen your love for God and what the created. The awe is possible. Hang in there and pray and pray and pray while there-remember?

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Well I survived watching a abominalplasty, remove excess fat, without passing out. The OR staff did have some fun with me asking if I wanted to get a closer look. I was good in my little corner of the room and could see things just fine thank you very much!

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

I didn't know that Hesychasm is so little practiced. It was one reason why I was considering Orthodoxy.

Unfortunately many traditional Christians do not have priests who can guide them in Hesychasm, however, my understanding is that just saying the Jesus Prayer frequently with or without a prayer rope is universally thought to be harmless (I am basing this on Metropolitan Kallistos Ware and various other writers, especially St. Ignatius Brianchaninov).

According to Kallistos Ware its the more intense monastic form of Hesychasm which can feature breathing techniques et cetera that really should not be attempted outside of a monastery.

Fortunately Roman Catholics can access information on Hesychasm and get a prayer rule from Eastern Catholic clergy, because even if one is Roman Rite, one can go to an Eastern Catholic liturgy or monastery.

The Anglicans also used the Jesus Prayer when implementing their Anglican Rosary.

So just to be clear @GreekOrthodox I am not disagreeing with you; ideally people would have an Orthodox priest with knowledge of Hesychasm, which sadly a great many of them lack, indeed, there are even a number of monasteries without Hesychasm, and it has nearly died off a few times, only to be saved by dedicated men of prayer, most recently I believe the generation of Elder Panteleimon and Elder Joseph on Mount Athos in the early 20th century. And it had also almost died when St. Nicodemus the Hagiorite and St. Macarius of Corinth worked to revive it and published the Philokalia as, among other things, a guidebook. But to do full on Hesychasm in spiritual health, an Eastern or Oriental Orthodox confessor, usually monastic (in the OO community, I think most hesychasm is happening in Coptic monasteries, where it was bolstered by Fr. Lazarus el Antony, the Australian anchorite who lives in a cave near the Cave of St. Anthony, where he liturgizes nightly). Fr. Lazarus began his monastic career as a novice in a Serbian Orthodox monastery in Australia, which, to the credit of the Orthodox Church, was the only one willing to accept a non-member who had been an atheist, who had come to believe in Christ and wanted to convert and become a monk right off the street.

However, I don’t think it would have anything other than positive effects if people learned to say the Jesus prayer and said it frequently. And doing that really isn’t Hesychasm, its just saying the Jesus Prayer.