What is the source of human conscience?

[Kaon]

Thanks for your post.
Why do you think the tree was called: the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?
Would that name make sense if A&E "knew perfectly right from wrong"? (when they were created)

The tree of knowledge of good and evil was a body whose offering/fruit is endowing people with the means to judge duality.

Tree is used through the bible as a metaphor for bodies; The Most High God told Adam and Eve they could indulge anyone (tree) except for the one that offers the knowledge between good and evil.

They already knew the difference; the tree (when "eaten") made Adam and Eve judges while they were spiritual newborns quite literally.

You see, therefore, why it was such an egregious error: on one hand, the tree of knowledge endowed them with the ability to judge, but on the other hand, since eating the fruit was a direct disobedience to the Word of the Most High God, they were incapable of being Perfect Judges. In fact, they were completely ineligible to judge, as they became slaves to the duality itself.

 

[Saint Steven]

The tree of knowledge of good and evil was a body whose offering/fruit is endowing people with the means to judge duality.

Tree is used through the bible as a metaphor for bodies; The Most High God told Adam and Eve they could indulge anyone (tree) except for the one that offers the knowledge between good and evil.

They already knew the difference; the tree (when "eaten") made Adam and Eve judges while they were spiritual newborns quite literally.

You see, therefore, why it was such an egregious error: on one hand, the tree of knowledge endowed them with the ability to judge, but on the other hand, since eating the fruit was a direct disobedience to the Word of the Most High God, they were incapable of being Perfect Judges. In fact, they were completely ineligible to judge, as they became slaves to the duality itself.

Thanks. That's a very unique interpretation of this.

 

[AlexDTX]

Thanks for your reply. Two things.

After eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, God wanted to prevent them from eating from the tree of life. Not sure whether the reverse order would have served them. Would still have been sin. What happens when you do that? Not sure. Maybe that is where we ended up anyway. We have eternal life now, yet still sin.

Furthermore, the way that things turned out was an expensive problem. Cost the Father his only begotten.

This is only my speculation, but I see the Holy Spirit as the Tree of Life. When we accept the gift of life in Christ we are SEALED by the Holy Spirit. I think if they had eaten from the tree of life first they would have been SEALED in perfection. Thus they could then eat from the tree of knowledge without any adverse affect. But since they ate the wrong fruit first, God did not want them to be forever SEALED in sin, thus were blocked from the tree of life until Christ could open that door again.

Jesus counted the cost before he made the creation. He knew what he had to pay to obtain what he wanted. Which goes to show how much God values humanity. We are pearls of great price in his eyes.

 

[Jeshu]

Okay, thanks.
Here's a question: Why do you think it was called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

Not sure about that. What i do know that in a perfect world there would be a need to warn about going off with the less than perfect. Mixing good with bad isn't ever going to produce good fruit as you saw with Adam and Eve. In a world where wrong is not defined because it is so good there we do need a warning not to mix lies/bad with the truth/good. Only in a saved by Christ reality can eating from the fruit of right and wrong produce any good, but never otherwise, but with Christ we add good to the bad and not bad to the good as happen at first.

Once we have a guilty conscience our conscience cannot save us any more after that. Eating from the fruit of right and wrong tells us about why wrong is wrong but it is the very wrong telling us that destroys us. Knowledge of wrong in perfect world doesn't eat from wrong to get it right that happens only in a fallen world.

Not sure if this answers your question, it is an interesting one.

 

[Eloy Craft]

This is only my speculation, but I see the Holy Spirit as the Tree of Life.

I believe this. acting on the promptings of the Holy Spirit leads to eternal life. Well supported speculation.


John 4-14
14 but those who drink of the water that I will give them will never be thirsty. The water that I will give will become in them a spring of water gushing up to eternal life.”

John 4, 31-34
31 Meanwhile the disciples were urging him, “Rabbi, eat something.” 32 But he said to them, “I have food to eat that you do not know about.” 33 So the disciples said to one another, “Surely no one has brought him something to eat?” 34 Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of him who sent me and to complete his work.

 

[Mountainmanbob]

Three types

One poor soul never grew a conscience.

Another one grew a conscience but, at many times set it aside.

Yet another grew a conscience and then killed it.

M-Bob

 

[Saint Steven]

So, the consensus so far seems to be that our conscience was either given at the creation of humankind, or as a result of the Fall, as I have posited. I don't recall anyone pointing to another origin.

I still hold to my original theory that our human conscience came with the Fall. The serpent, or the one who possessed him, seemed to know this in advance. And God confirmed it. See scripture below, followed by additional commentary.

Genesis 3:5, 25
5 “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” ...
22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, let's discuss this business of "knowing good and evil", which (as I claim) was a result of the Fall, or more directly, from eating the forbidden fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Another curiosity was the effort to prevent us (A&E) from also eating from the tree of life "and live forever".

Yet when we believe in Christ we receive eternal life in the here and now. (scripture below) The only difference seems to be the repentance and accepting of God's offer to restore the fellowship that was lost in the garden.

Somehow, this whole issue could not be resolved in the garden. The solution was set in place, but not realized until a later date.

John 5:24
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

 

[Eloy Craft]

If you examine the word 'conscience' it is knowledge in relation to something. 'with knowledge. So, conscience is an act. Conscience is an act with knowledge. This is natural to our faculty of reason. Reason is a faculty of our intellect and conscience is the use of that faculty when we act. Conscience is said to be a witness, a judge, "Thy conscience knoweth that thou hast often spoken evil of others" (Ecclesiastes 7:23). When we deaden our conscience we deaden our ability to apprehend truth which is a power of the intellect. Conscience is natural to us as humans since we are naturally spiritual and active in the material world. Before the fall, there was one law to obey. It was not choose the good of the lower powers , the sensitive powers or as in the bible, the flesh over the good of God. We had no inclination for it in the beginning but at some point it was entertained. I think that was Satan whispering in Eve's ear " did God really say?" Satan reasoned with her and she adopted the knowledge of evil and her act 'with knowledge' was no longer the knowledge given by God but the knowledge of evil. Satan sat on the throne in her temple as the knowledge of good but it was the knowledge of evil. Evil because it came from Satan not God. The source of knowledge that judged her acts as good or evil was satan. Her conscience was reformed by the morality of Satan.

 

[Saint Steven]

What we read in Genesis is the last we hear of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. But the tree of life comes up again. And is in our future. Another curious thing.

Revelation 2:7
Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who is victorious, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

Revelation 22:1-5
Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. 3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

 

[Saint Steven]

If you examine the word 'conscience' it is knowledge in relation to something. 'with knowledge. So, conscience is an act. Conscience is an act with knowledge. This is natural to our faculty of reason. Reason is a faculty of our intellect and conscience is the use of that faculty when we act. Conscience is said to be a witness, a judge, "Thy conscience knoweth that thou hast often spoken evil of others" (Ecclesiastes 7:23). When we deaden our conscience we deaden our ability to apprehend truth which is a power of the intellect. Conscience is natural to us as humans since we are naturally spiritual and active in the material world. Before the fall, there was one law to obey. It was not choose the good of the lower powers , the sensitive powers or as in the bible, the flesh over the good of God. We had no inclination for it in the beginning but at some point it was entertained. I think that was Satan whispering in Eve's ear " did God really say?" Satan reasoned with her and she adopted the knowledge of evil and her act 'with knowledge' was no longer the knowledge given by God but the knowledge of evil. Satan sat on the throne in her temple as the knowledge of good but it was the knowledge of evil. Evil because it came from Satan not God. The source of knowledge that judged her acts as good or evil was satan. Her conscience was reformed by the morality of Satan.

There is something to that. What you are saying.

Eve's reasoning is recorded in the story. (scripture below) The temptation was external, from the serpent. But she made a choice, and her husband joined her. I have sometimes wondered what would have happened if her husband (covering) would have refused to eat. What would the outcome have been? Would Eve's act have been covered by his "authority" as head?

Genesis 3:6
When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

 

[Eloy Craft]

There is something to that. What you are saying.

Eve's reasoning is recorded in the story. (scripture below) The temptation was external, from the serpent. But she made a choice, and her husband joined her. I have sometimes wondered what would have happened if her husband (covering) would have refused to eat. What would the outcome have been? Would Eve's act have been covered by his "authority" as head?

Genesis 3:6
When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

He would be a sign of contradiction for her. She would hate him in as much as she loved her new found goods of sin. There are conditions that would have made it almost impossible for her to not accept Adam and God back into her life. The period of time before repentance spawned the Mother of harlots. It took all the blood ever shed on earth to be on her hands for her to fully wake up.

 

[Saint Steven]

He would be a sign of contradiction for her. She would hate him in as much as she loved her new found goods of sin. There are conditions that would have made it almost impossible for her to not accept Adam and God back into her life. The period of time before repentance spawned the Mother of harlots. It took all the blood ever shed on earth to be on her hands for her to fully wake up.

Let me be more direct. The Bible tells us that spiritual death came to all of us through Adam. (scriptures below) The blame is not laid on the fist couple, but on the first man.

So, the question is: If Adam had refused to eat the forbidden fruit, would Eve's transgression had been covered by his authority?

I suppose he would have sinned eventually, but that would have been quite a plot twist in the story had he refused. (as he should have) And actually, he should have reasoned with his wife not to follow the bad advice of the serpent. But it seems that he was drawn in as well. Remaining silent throughout the whole event.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

 

[Kaon]

Let me be more direct. The Bible tells us that spiritual death came to all of us through Adam. (scriptures below) The blame is not laid on the fist couple, but on the first man.

So, the question is: If Adam had refused to eat the forbidden fruit, would Eve's transgression had been covered by his authority?

I suppose he would have sinned eventually, but that would have been quite a plot twist in the story had he refused. (as he should have) And actually, he should have reasoned with his wife not to follow the bad advice of the serpent. But it seems that he was drawn in as well. Remaining silent throughout the whole event.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

If you notice Adam and Eve do not lose their raiment of light and realize they are naked until Adam "ate," and the Most High God did not begin convicting them until Adam "ate."

I would venture to say the Most High God would have taken another "rib" from Adam, and made another female for him if he had talked to his Father first - especially if he resisted her temptation.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Let me be more direct. The Bible tells us that spiritual death came to all of us through Adam. (scriptures below) The blame is not laid on the fist couple, but on the first man.

So, the question is: If Adam had refused to eat the forbidden fruit, would Eve's transgression had been covered by his authority?

I suppose he would have sinned eventually, but that would have been quite a plot twist in the story had he refused. (as he should have) And actually, he should have reasoned with his wife not to follow the bad advice of the serpent. But it seems that he was drawn in as well. Remaining silent throughout the whole event.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

adam was the voice of God between them. If adam had not listened to the voice of his wife he would have remained the prophet and authority of God between them. But there would be anther voice of another god in the family. By listening to the voice of satan she has become a prophet of a different god and her god wants to be the sole authority. When adam listened to the voice of his wife satan did become their god and she was his prophet or voice of authority. She is queen on her throne and is no widow and will never be in grief(be childless)

 

[Tayla]

Did something good come from something bad?

It seems that the source of human conscience, our innate ability to know right from wrong, came from the Fall of humanity in Genesis chapter three.

Was the result of eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, our human conscience, that gives us the ability to know right from wrong?

Seems to me our innate characteristics as humans were implanted in us from the beginning. I can't imagine that the fall made us better in any way, only worse. It did not enhance us, but rather, limited us.

 

[Saint Steven]

If you notice Adam and Eve do not lose their raiment of light and realize they are naked until Adam "ate," and the Most High God did not begin convicting them until Adam "ate."

I would venture to say the Most High God would have taken another "rib" from Adam, and made another female for him if he had talked to his Father first - especially if he resisted her temptation.

That's an interesting idea.
I suppose "Eve" could have been banished from the garden, and God could have created another. Kind of strange, but a possibility. The name "Eve" would have to be given to "the mother of all the living".

Genesis 3:20
Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ​

BTW, I don't subscribe to the "raiment of light" theory. (glowing robes) At the end of Genesis chapter two we read: Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame. - vs 25

Furthermore, God indicates that they were told they were naked when he asked: “Who told you that you were naked? - Gen.3:11

 

[Saint Steven]

Seems to me our innate characteristics as humans were implanted in us from the beginning. I can't imagine that the fall made us better in any way, only worse. It did not enhance us, but rather, limited us.

That's why this is such a curious thing, to me anyway.

There is a strong point made in Genesis chapter two that our knowledge of good and evil (our conscience) was a result of the Fall (eating the forbidden fruit). Since a conscience is good, but the Fall was bad, how can this be? Something good from something bad.

 

[Tayla]

knowledge of good and evil (our conscience) was a result of the Fall

Perhaps conscience is not the same thing as knowledge of good and evil. Perhaps knowledge of good and evil has to do with our soul/spirit being plagued by the dark side.

 

[Saint Steven]

Perhaps conscience is not the same thing as knowledge of good and evil. Perhaps knowledge of good and evil has to do with our soul/spirit being plagued by the dark side.

That's an interesting distinction. We should explore that further. Tell me more.

I wanted to add this to the previous post. Knowing good and evil is a godlike characteristic. And it came with the Fall. More strangeness.

Genesis 3:22
Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil. …

 

[Eloy Craft]

Con=with science= knowledge- conscience=with knowledge. What is with knowledge? Acts. act with knowledge. =conscience. Our conscience was good and perfect when it =act with knowledge of God. We are created with a conscience. Act with knowledge of satan equals acts wi9th knowledge of evil. Evil becomes good and good becomes evil.