What is the reformed Calvinist's view on the pro-Israel movement among Christians

[cygnusx1]

True. What is sad though is when the pro-Israel Christians do know about the bad side of Zionism and yet do nothing to stand up for what is right and fair, beleiving that a Jew has more right to the land than a palestinian Christian.

NASA

right and fair ?

there is no right and fair concerning Biblical election ...... to the Jew first.

 

[bradfordl]

right and fair ?

there is no right and fair concerning Biblical election ...... to the Jew first.

Wow, Cyg... you really do hold to some sort of genealogical election, don't you? Kinda out of context, bro:

Rom 2:9-11 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; (10) But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: (11) For there is no respect of persons with God.

 

[nasa1]

right and fair ?

there is no right and fair concerning Biblical election ...... to the Jew first.

Yes, to saved Jews...and Paul cleary explains who the true Jew is.

NASA

 

[cygnusx1]

Yes, to saved Jews...and Paul cleary explains who the true Jew is.

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saved Jews get heaven ......... the Jewish race gets the promised land , it's that simple.

 

[bradfordl]

saved Jews get heaven ......... the Jewish race gets the promised land , it's that simple.

Because?

 

[cygnusx1]

Because?

God is faithful.

 

[nasa1]

I have no problem with unbelieving Jews living in Israel. The problem I have is when Zionists hurt their own Jews to get the land, or when pro-Israel nuts put their own brothers and sisters on the altar just so that Jews can have thier little land.

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[cygnusx1]

I have no problem with unbelieving Jews living in Israel. The problem I have is when Zionists hurt their own Jews to get the land, or when pro-Israel nuts put their own brothers and sisters on the altar just so that Jews can have thier little land.

NASA

just let them get on with it , and try not to sneer "little land " . God has a bright future for the Jews.

 

[bradfordl]

just let them get on with it , and try not to sneer "little land " . God has a bright future for the Jews.

So Cyg, my beloved brother, how close are you to the John Hagee position on present-day national "Israel"?

 

[nasa1]

just let them get on with it , and try not to sneer "little land " . God has a bright future for the Jews.

Your favoristism will blind you to what Zionism is really about. The elect of God have a bright future, and that is all because of the mercy of God.

Why don't you become a messianic?

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[nasa1]

Also, why do people just focus on the Jews? Doesn't God have a bright future for the Chinese people as well? What about the Arabs? What about the Mexicans? I am so sick of people that give so much favoritism to the Jews and Israel. It is a serious sin.

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[cygnusx1]

Also, why do people just focus on the Jews? Doesn't God have a bright future for the Chinese people as well? What about the Arabs? What about the Mexicans? I am so sick of people that give so much favoritism to the Jews and Israel. It is a serious sin.

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i fail to see your problem , the Jews are God's chosen people , just look at the testimony of God's word and what He thinks of them , and how the world hate them have you not read history and seen anti-semetism throughout the ages ........ Satanic !

the other nations are blessed because of the Jews , Jesus was a Jew ......... Divine providence has seen to it that he was called 'King of the Jews' , even though the Jews denounced him!

it seems to me you don't like God showing favour to anyone unless .....He shows it to all. and how do you square that with your calvinism !

the Jews are highly favoured by God always have been always will be. There is no nation like them , there is no history like theirs , their blessings have been above and beyond all other nations . God Himself has covenanted with this nation , God considers it a marriage , and you are ticked off by God's choice ? best repent!

 

[bradfordl]

i fail to see your problem , the Jews are God's chosen people , just look at the testimony of God's word and what He thinks of them , and how the world hate them have you not read history and seen anti-semetism throughout the ages ........ Satanic !

the other nations are blessed because of the Jews , Jesus was a Jew ......... Divine providence has seen to it that he was called 'King of the Jews' , even though the Jews denounced him!

it seems to me you don't like God showing favour to anyone unless .....He shows it to all. and how do you square that with your calvinism !

the Jews are highly favoured by God always have been always will be. There is no nation like them , there is no history like theirs , their blessings have been above and beyond all other nations . God Himself has covenanted with this nation , God considers it a marriage , and you are ticked off by God's choice ? best repent!

2Co 6:14-18 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? (15) And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? (16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (17) Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, (18) And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Will you have a part with infidels on the basis of some genetic descendency, Cyg?

 

[cygnusx1]

Will you have a part with infidels on the basis of some genetic descendency, Cyg?

extraordinary question coming from a Presby peodo-baptist!

at what point do you cut off all ties with any offspring who haven't come to faith ?

have a part ?

should we be so quick to judge ?

Saul/Paul was once an "infidel" , God had mercy upon him .......... and should we not emulate the Apostle (and Prophets) who grieved over fallen Israel ?

"to those under the law , I became as one under the Law" ...... without doubt God is for the Jews .How can He not be ????

as Gentile Christians we should have an eye and a heart for what pleases God and what God has revealed grieves him.

 

[nasa1]

i fail to see your problem , the Jews are God's chosen people , just look at the testimony of God's word and what He thinks of them , and how the world hate them have you not read history and seen anti-semetism throughout the ages ........ Satanic !

the other nations are blessed because of the Jews , Jesus was a Jew ......... Divine providence has seen to it that he was called 'King of the Jews' , even though the Jews denounced him!

it seems to me you don't like God showing favour to anyone unless .....He shows it to all. and how do you square that with your calvinism !

the Jews are highly favoured by God always have been always will be. There is no nation like them , there is no history like theirs , their blessings have been above and beyond all other nations . God Himself has covenanted with this nation , God considers it a marriage , and you are ticked off by God's choice ? best repent!

You need to repent of your favoritism towards Jews.

Here is what Jesus has to say about what will happen to the Jews who are not of the elect:

Matthew 8
And when Jesus entered Capernaum, a centurion came to Him, imploring Him,

6and saying, "Lord, my servant is lying paralyzed at home, fearfully tormented."

7Jesus said to him, "I will come and heal him."

8But the centurion said, "Lord, I am not worthy for You to come under my roof, but just say the word, and my servant will be healed.

9"For I also am a man under authority, with soldiers under me; and I say to this one, 'Go!' and he goes, and to another, 'Come!' and he comes, and to my slave, 'Do this!' and he does it."

10Now when Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those who were following, "Truly I say to you, I have not found such great faith with anyone in Israel.

11"I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven;

12but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
13And Jesus said to the centurion, "Go; it shall be done for you as you have believed." And the servant was healed that very moment.



The "sons of the Kingdom" were those of Israel that were not of the elect. Even Paul said that not everyone from Israel is Israel. He said that the Abrahamic covenent was not made with many people, as you pro-Israel people wrongly believe, but with one person, Christ, and all that are in Christ are also a part of that covenent.

I urge you to look at the evil side of Zionism at this website which is a website from the Orthodox Jews Against Zionism:

http://www.nkusa.org/


I am not pro Israel, but I am pro people. God has a plan for all people - does not the Bible say that His house will be a house of prayer for all nations? You are sinning when you talk that God favors Jewish people over others. This is a misconception that many Jews get from the Old Testament, and act with a haughty, superior attitude over the Gentiles. That is why the Talmud is full of racist sayings against the Gentiles. God has seriously punished the Jews for this attitude through the sack of Jerusalem in 70 AD and with the Holocaust. He will continue to punish them until they repent. You need to repent as well.

NASA

 

[bradfordl]

extraordinary question coming from a Presby peodo-baptist!

A position that relies on the promises made in regard to the children of believers. Not a genetic line, bro.

at what point do you cut off all ties with any offspring who haven't come to faith ?

I know you'll struggle with this, Cyg, but I know that none of my offspring will ever not be in the faith. I have trusted in God's promises from early on, and they have all been baptised into the covenant. Now, in accordance with His unfailing promises, all my children by His grace have made such unswerving professions of faith that there would be very few credobaptists that would withold the water from them, the youngest now 7 yo. So to me your question is moot.

I have never said that we should cut off all ties with unbelievers of any genetic line. We should proclaim the gospel to them as our Lord commissioned us. But no genetic line should be confused with those upon whom the promises rest; the elect of God, the true Israel. This is not "replacement" theology as you like to accuse, but "expansion" theology, wherein the members of the covenant of grace are no longer limited to a particular nation (which never was exclusively a genetic line; remember Ruth, Rahab, etc.), but since the day of the ascension of our Redeemer is constituted of folk from every nation, tribe and kindred.

as Gentile Christians we should have an eye and a heart for what pleases God and what God has revealed grieves him.

There is no such thing as a "Gentile Christians", Cyg. The wall of separation has been torn down. What pleases God is that men believe on the Son Whom He hath sent. What grieves Him is that men do not. And the nation that calls itself Israel today is one that officially supports unbelief.

Go there and try to become a citizen as a Christian, Cyg. You will not be welcome. Now, if you were to convert to judaism (as my own biological brother did so he could gain "Israeli" citizenship), you could become a citizen. What does that tell you?

 

[cygnusx1]

A position that relies on the promises made in regard to the children of believers. Not a genetic line, bro.

children of believers is a genetic line bro !

 

[cygnusx1]

There is no such thing as a "Gentile Christians", Cyg. The wall of separation has been torn down.

man , that is one oversimplification bro !

of course there is such a thing as a Gentile Christian , the Jews don't just dissapear bro ! just go through scripture carefully looking out for this distinction , we fall under the 4 principles of the Noahic Covenant (including prohibtion of eating blood) whereas the Jews have many more commandments , if it were not so , how different would the very first synod have been ! Yes the Jews still circumcise their sons and have a peculiar distinguished central part of history with many promises including land entitlements.... and FUTURE CONVERSION to Christ , there hardening was temporary and for a purpose , to let us in > Rom 11.


the wall of seperation regarding salvation/access to God has been torn down , a Gentile believer is under no obligation to obey cirumcision nor to keep Sabbath....

 

[cygnusx1]

You need to repent of your favoritism towards Jews.

Here is what Jesus has to say about what will happen to the Jews who are not of the elect:

Matthew 8
And when Jesus entered Capernaum, a centurion came to Him, imploring Him,

6and saying, "Lord, my servant is lying paralyzed at home, fearfully tormented."

7Jesus said to him, "I will come and heal him."

8But the centurion said, "Lord, I am not worthy for You to come under my roof, but just say the word, and my servant will be healed.

9"For I also am a man under authority, with soldiers under me; and I say to this one, 'Go!' and he goes, and to another, 'Come!' and he comes, and to my slave, 'Do this!' and he does it."

10Now when Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those who were following, "Truly I say to you, I have not found such great faith with anyone in Israel.

11"I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven;

12but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
13And Jesus said to the centurion, "Go; it shall be done for you as you have believed." And the servant was healed that very moment.



The "sons of the Kingdom" were those of Israel that were not of the elect. Even Paul said that not everyone from Israel is Israel. He said that the Abrahamic covenent was not made with many people, as you pro-Israel people wrongly believe, but with one person, Christ, and all that are in Christ are also a part of that covenent.

I urge you to look at the evil side of Zionism at this website which is a website from the Orthodox Jews Against Zionism:

http://www.nkusa.org/


I am not pro Israel, but I am pro people. God has a plan for all people - does not the Bible say that His house will be a house of prayer for all nations? You are sinning when you talk that God favors Jewish people over others. This is a misconception that many Jews get from the Old Testament, and act with a haughty, superior attitude over the Gentiles. That is why the Talmud is full of racist sayings against the Gentiles. God has seriously punished the Jews for this attitude through the sack of Jerusalem in 70 AD and with the Holocaust. He will continue to punish them until they repent. You need to repent as well.

NASA

what a crass , ugly , outragious , superior , haughty anti semetic post !!!!!!!!!!

you have fallen into the trap Paul warned about in Romans 11 .

i am done talking with you...... Christ wept over the Jews as did Paul , your posts are appalling and Pharisaical!

 

[nasa1]

It is a cop out to cry "anti Semite!" every time somebody tells the truth about the Jewish people. There are so many Christ hating Jews that call Paul an antiSemite, for your information.


You Zionists that don't mind your fellow Jews getting killed just so that you can push your Zionist agenda forward are the true antiSemites!

Look at the Orthodox Jews Against Zionism's website and actually learn something.

NASA