What is the reformed Calvinist's view on the pro-Israel movement among Christians

[nasa1]

What do Calvinists think of the pro-Israel movement among Christians? This would include Christians who agree with the secular Zionist movement. Is this is all because of a wrong end times theology, or it is partiality for Israel and Jews in general, or both? Would you say that the American government is pro-Israel and what is the result of this thinking?


Would you say that most who are pro-Israel are also Arminian in their theology?


Thanks, NASA

 

[bradfordl]

My position is that God's Israel today is the Church. The country called Israel today is just another nation of mostly unbelievers, and of no eschatological import.

But on a present day geopolitical plane, they are a far better choice as allies than anything else around them, a far more equitable society, and in their conflicts with their neighbors are light years ahead of their enemies in the morality of their conduct. So I side with them on most if not all issues, but not for eschatological reasons. Palestinians are a particularly detestable group of people.

 

[Elderone]

Palestinians are a particularly detestable group of people.

Except for the Christians among them.

 

[heymikey80]

What do Calvinists think of the pro-Israel movement among Christians? This would include Christians who agree with the secular Zionist movement. Is this is all because of a wrong end times theology, or it is partiality for Israel and Jews in general, or both? Would you say that the American government is pro-Israel and what is the result of this thinking?

Would you say that most who are pro-Israel are also Arminian in their theology?

Thanks, NASA

Y'might read Calvin's commentary on Romans 11:25ff.

Still, Calvinism is not monolithic on this situation. Different people have different views. Many dispensationalist views seem to be more monolithic on it.

 

[bradfordl]

Except for the Christians among them.

Point taken. Thanks Eld.

 

[cygnusx1]

I am pro Israel , have been for about as long as I have been a Christian , nearly 30 uears , God doesn't half finish a job , the gifts and the calling are without repentance , Israel will return to God as a Christian nation.

 

[Iosias]

I am not a Zionist, Israel has been replaced by the Church (true Israel). They are simply another nation.

 

[edie19]

I agree with Bradford and AV1611 - since Christ Israel is the church, Christ's bride.

edie

 

[nasa1]

I am not a Zionist, Israel has been replaced by the Church (true Israel). They are simply another nation.

Hello, I am not a Zionist either. I do believe that it is ok to have an Israeli state, and I do consider myself a friend to Jewish people - but when some learn you are not a Zionist, they consider you an antiSemite - they call everyone that word in some fashion it seems.


I think that the church is the true Israel of God, the spiritual Israel. I think the Bible teaches that there is a spiritual Israel and an earthly Israel. I believe Paul speaks about earthly Israel in the book of galatians - these do not inherit the promises. I do believe that Paul also taught that God in His Sovereignty would save a remnant from them.
'

See, here is one thing I do not understand: God will only have one wife, the church. How come then some Christians says that God will marry Israel and the church?
It would be wrong for God to have two wives.


NASA

 

[nasa1]

My position is that God's Israel today is the Church. The country called Israel today is just another nation of mostly unbelievers, and of no eschatological import.

But on a present day geopolitical plane, they are a far better choice as allies than anything else around them, a far more equitable society, and in their conflicts with their neighbors are light years ahead of their enemies in the morality of their conduct. So I side with them on most if not all issues, but not for eschatological reasons. Palestinians are a particularly detestable group of people.

Do you see any prophetical importance of Israel becoming a state in 48?
I would also agree with you that most Jews are far more civilized than the Palestinians, although some Jews mistreat Christians and anyone who is not a Zionist among their own people. The IDF also commits atrocities now and again. But no one is perfect. The fundamentalist muslims are probably the worst people on the planet, and I feel sorry for Jews who have to endure their bull.

NASA

 

[bradfordl]

Do you see any prophetical importance of Israel becoming a state in 48?

Not particularly.

 

[heymikey80]

I am not a Zionist, Israel has been replaced by the Church (true Israel). They are simply another nation.

I agree with Bradford and AV1611 - since Christ Israel is the church, Christ's bride.

edie

If it's just the nation we're talking about -- I'd tend to agree. But there's a people under there, a people God intentionally hardened for our sakes. For no good reason attributable to us, either.

It's a scary thing for me to read Romans 11. I think Romans 11 single-handedly caused John Calvin to look with some compassion on the Jewish people of his day (however small that compassion may seem to present-day wild-eyed openness). And it slices away at what I might think about the nature of covenantal patience in God:

As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all. Rom 11:28-32
​

I'm humbled to think that God still has a heart for this long-lost people. So great is His patience! I would fall on His mercy if I ever had wayward kids, trusting God and hoping in His work in their hearts, or in the hearts of their descendants.

 

[Beoga]

I am not a Zionist, Israel has been replaced by the Church (true Israel). They are simply another nation.

I agree with the idea, however I do not particularly like the wording. I don't believe that the Church replaced Israel, but the Church is Israel fulfilled.

 

[cygnusx1]

Hello, I am not a Zionist either. I do believe that it is ok to have an Israeli state, and I do consider myself a friend to Jewish people - but when some learn you are not a Zionist, they consider you an antiSemite - they call everyone that word in some fashion it seems.


I think that the church is the true Israel of God, the spiritual Israel. I think the Bible teaches that there is a spiritual Israel and an earthly Israel. I believe Paul speaks about earthly Israel in the book of galatians - these do not inherit the promises. I do believe that Paul also taught that God in His Sovereignty would save a remnant from them.
'

See, here is one thing I do not understand: God will only have one wife, the church. How come then some Christians says that God will marry Israel and the church?
It would be wrong for God to have two wives.


NASA

yes that's right , God has only one wife , some here think God divorced Israel , even though God hates divorce , like Israel had their DISPENSATION , other Calvinists such as me see ONE BRIDE OF CHRIST ; ISRAEL , causing Paul to see the analogy as branches (us Saved Gentiles) on the vine (Israel) not two vines !!!

 

[nasa1]

Not particularly.

So, in the passages in the OT like in the book of Ezekial which speak of God bringing His people back into their own land, you do not see that as being fulfilled in 48 and also in the 6 day war?

nasa

 

[nasa1]

yes that's right , God has only one wife , some here think God divorced Israel , even though God hates divorce , like Israel had their DISPENSATION , other Calvinists such as me see ONE BRIDE OF CHRIST ; ISRAEL , causing Paul to see the analogy as branches (us Saved Gentiles) on the vine (Israel) not two vines !!!

Yes that makes sense. There will be only one wife, one bride of Christ. Amen!

God is not a polygamist! Although it seems many Christians think He is!

NASA

 

[nasa1]

I agree with the idea, however I do not particularly like the wording. I don't believe that the Church replaced Israel, but the Church is Israel fulfilled.

Hello, could you define what it is to be "Israel fulfilled?"

Thanks!

nasa

 

[nasa1]

I really like this website:

http://www.christianzionism.org


Do Calvinists believe that there will be an armegeddon before Christ returns?

NASA

 

[bradfordl]

So, in the passages in the OT like in the book of Ezekial which speak of God bringing His people back into their own land, you do not see that as being fulfilled in 48 and also in the 6 day war?

His people have not been brought back to the land. A secular and Christ-rejecting people have occupied the land. The only difference between them and the other pagan nations that have occupied that piece of ground for millenia is the fact that some of them have a genetic descendency from the people of God who many generations ago were given that land.

Rom 9:2-8
(2) That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
(3) For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
(4) Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
(5) Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
(6) Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
(7) Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
(8) That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[xapis]

I agree with the idea, however I do not particularly like the wording. I don't believe that the Church replaced Israel, but the Church is Israel fulfilled.

Agreed!