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What is the Rapture?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Hector Medina, Sep 30, 2002.

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  1. Hector Medina

    Hector Medina Questioning Roman Catholic

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    Howdy folks,


    The title says it all.



    In Christ,

    Hector
     
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  2. postrib

    postrib Well-Known Member

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    "Rapture" is from the Latin "rapiemur," which is how the old Latin translation of the Bible translated "caught up" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. But many Christians believe that they will be "caught up" all the way into heaven, and that this will happen before the tribulation, when the Bible doesn't promise us either of these things. It says that we Christians must go through the coming tribulation (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13), that we will be caught up into the clouds to meet Jesus as he descends at the 2nd coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), that this will happen "after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), and that Jesus' coming to gather us together must "destroy" the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).
     
  3. ladylove

    ladylove Active Member

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    Postrib is for the most part, correct. Though the word "rapture" never occurs in the Bible, the event is discussed. The debate among Christians is WHEN this event occurs, not if it occurs. I also believe the church will go thru the tribulation, tho' not the Day of the Lord. However, these two events will occur on the same day. Blessings.
     
  4. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

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    The rapture is when Christ will come down to the clouds and catch away everyone who is ready and eagerly awaiting His return. Unlike the first two replies, I believe that we will NOT go through the tribulation, not the ones who are ready anyway. But there will be many tribulation saints that will be left to go into the tribulation period, and these will be martyred, or killed for their testimony of Christ and refusing to take the mark of the beast. I believe that anyone left alive after the beast overcomes the trib saints, these will be separated into one of two groups (sheep and goats). The sheep will remain in their mortal bodies and enter Christ' Kingdom that will reign for 1000 years, and they will also repopulate the earth. The goats however, they will meet their doom.

    Your question though was not about the timing of this event, but what it is. Here is another good verse that mentions it:

    1 Corr. 15: 51-52 - "Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep (die), but we will all be changed---- (52)In a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we (that are in the flesh) will be changed." (emphasis added)
     
  5. rollinTHUNDER

    rollinTHUNDER Veteran

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    Hector,
    I am not much for debating, but I did forget to tell you why I don't believe that we will go through the tribulation. I just give you two verses :

    Luke 21: 36 - "Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."

    And this is my favorite.
    Rev. 3: 10 - "Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth."

    **(note)** Notice that they are promised to be kept from the time (hour), meaning that those who escape will not be here for the trial? Glory bound!!!
     
  6. postrib

    postrib Well-Known Member

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    I believe that we will be caught up to meet Jesus coming "in the clouds" on his way down to set his feet on the earth.

    "The Son of man coming in the clouds...
    with a great sound of a trumpet,
    and they shall gather together his elect"
    (Matthew 24:30-31).

    "We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord...
    with the trump of God...
    shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord"
    (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

    I don't believe that the scriptures teach two different comings "in the clouds,"
    or two different "last" trumps (1 Corinthians 15:52),
    or two different raptures.

    Because 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 shows Jesus "coming," but doesn't show him landing on the earth, some believe it refers to a part-way coming of Jesus whereby he comes down only as far as the clouds and then returns to heaven. But note that Matthew 24:29-31 and Revelation 19 don't show Jesus landing on the earth either. Do some then believe that Matthew 24:29-31 and Revelation 19 are also not the 2nd coming?

    Note that 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 doesn't show Jesus returning to heaven. Acts 1:11 says Jesus will "come" just as he left: he won't come only as far as the clouds and then return to heaven again, just as he didn't leave only as far as the clouds and then return to earth again. He went from the Mount of Olives to the clouds to heaven, he will come from heaven to the clouds to the Mount of Olives (Zechariah 14:4). There's no 3rd coming of Jesus.

    I believe the sheep and goat judgment of all nations (Matthew 25:32-46) is not until the white throne judgment after the millennium (Revelation 20:11-15), when I believe the sheep will enter the eternal kingdom prepared beforehand (Revelation 21:2-3), and the goats will enter everlasting punishment (Revelation 20:15). Note that only the Antichrist and False Prophet go into everlasting punishment at the 2nd coming (Revelation 19:20).

    Note that the sheep "inherit the kingdom" (Matthew 25:34), so they must be in resurrected bodies, for "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom" (1 Corinthians 15:50).

    Note that the sheep and goats are judged by what they did (Matthew 25:40, 45), just as those at the white throne judgment are judged "according to their works" (Revelation 20:12).

    I believe we should all pray that we might be counted worthy to escape the coming tribulation:

    "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man" (Luke 21:36).

    But note that Jesus is speaking to the same believers, the same "ye," in Luke 21:8-35 that he is speaking to in Luke 21:36.

    I believe we will escape the entire tribulation and stand before the Son of Man (Luke 21:36) only if we die before the tribulation starts (Isaiah 57:1, 2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21-23).

    Note that Revelation 3:10 doesn't promise us a pre-trib rapture, but simply promised the 1st century church of Philadelphia that it would be kept from the hour of trial, which was probably a great persecution in their own time, and they weren't raptured.

    Note that no scripture promises us a rapture before the tribulation. Jesus says he will come to gather us together "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), and Paul says Jesus' coming to gather us together must "destroy" the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).

    Note that we Christians are referred to throughout Revelation (6:11, 7:14, 9:4, 12:17, 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 15:2, 16:15, 18:4, 20:4), and there are no Christians outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-5).
     
  7. Jephunneh

    Jephunneh Active Member

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    The term commonly used for the catching away of the saints described in 1 Th. 4:13-18.
    This Rapture is
    (1) a resurrection of the dead in Christ (v. 14-16),
    (2) a catching up and translation of the living N.T. saints (v. 17).


    The term "caught up" in 1 Th. 4:17 is also translated "pluck" (Jn. 10:28), "pulling [out of the fire]" (Jude 23), and "take by force" (Ac. 23:10).

    It refers to a forceful seizing and a snatching away. It is used of the devil snatching the word of God from the heart of the foolish (Mt. 13:19) and of the Spirit of God snatching away Philip after the conversion of the Ethiopian eunuch (Ac. 8:39).
    This is exactly what Christ will do to the N.T. believers before the onslaught of the Great Tribulation. This event is also described in 1 Co. 15:51-58. Here we see that the translation of the N.T. saints will involve an instantaneous change from morality to immortality. Those believers living at that hour will never see death (v. 51).
     
  8. postrib

    postrib Well-Known Member

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    Note that no scripture promises us a rapture before the tribulation.
     
  9. Warrior FC

    Warrior FC Messenger

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    The Rapture is another doctrine of man.

    The same with The Trinity!

    Neither one is in the bible.
     
  10. Jephunneh

    Jephunneh Active Member

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    So where is your Scripture for a rapture AFTER the tribulation?

    ==========================================
    To understand the Rapture, one must read the Bible and believe what it says. There is no way to find the truth in the Bible unless a person is honest himself when he reads it. The Bible should not be forced into theological brackets which some church or church leader set up. Any church or any church leader can twist the Bible to have it mean what they want it to say by three simple tricks: 1. Taking a verse out of the context. 2. Adding words to the text of the word of God. 3. Subtracting words from the text of the word of God.

    There are two main passages in scripture which speak directly of the Rapture.

    1 Thessalonians 4
    15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
    16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
    17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

    1 Corinthians 15
    49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
    50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
    51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
    53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
    54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
    55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

    The Rapture is that sudden coming of Christ down into the atmosphere to catch up and catch away a Body of believers who compose what the Bible calls "His BRIDE."
     
  11. postrib

    postrib Well-Known Member

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    Note that Jesus says he will come to gather us together "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), and Paul says Jesus' coming to gather us together must "destroy" the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).

    Some believe the tribulation may be for some Christians, but not for the bride of Christ. But there are no Christians outside of the bride, for all believers form a single body (Ephesians 4:4-6), which is the bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:30-32). We Christians who will be in the tribulation are Christians after the cross and after Pentecost, saved in no different way than Christians who have died or will die before the tribulation. Many of us will be slain for the word of God and cry out to the Lord (Revelation 6:9-10); we will have washed our robes in the blood of the Lamb (Revelation 7:14); we will have the testimony of Jesus Christ (Revelation 12:17) and the faith of Jesus (Revelation 14:12) and will be in the Lord (Revelation 14:13); if we die, we will enter into heaven itself (Revelation 15:2); some of us will be beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God, and we will all live and reign with Christ (Revelation 20:4).
     
  12. Messenger1

    Messenger1 New Member

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    The rapture is when Christ returns on the clouds of glory and Christians are "Caught Up" to be with Him in the air. What separates many Christians is not what is the rapture, but "when" is the Rapture.

    My belief is that it is after the great Tribulation period. Others think it is before the tribulation, and still others believe that it is during the tribulation. When one believes the rapture will take place will generally show their eschatological viewpoint.
     
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