What is the purpose of going to church?

[Arsenios]

...what the church looked like in the bible
is totally different
from the Easyern Orthadix...“churches” today

Here is the first Church in Jerusalem as it looks today:

The difference is so dramatic

It is maintained, as much as it can be, by the Orthodox...


Arsenios

 

[prodromos]

They gathered together in homes

They originally worshiped in the synagogues, until the Jews drove them out, then homes were re-purposed as houses of worship such as the example discovered in Dura Europos in Syria. Even before persecution of the Church ended with the Edict of Milan, there is evidence that Christians were building purpose built temples of worship as found in the recent discovery at Megiddo. After persecution ended there was an explosion of temple construction by Christians.

 

[Open Heart]

They originally worshiped in the synagogues

@LoveofTruth
In case you missed this the first time around.

 

[Arsenios]

Dear Love of Truth -

Did you like the youtube article on the relics of the 1st century Church of the Brother of Christ James? (Iakovos = Jacob = James)

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Perhaps the most consistent feature of the Liturgical Church Services in the Ancient Faith is Her prayers for all... The very term Liturgy means "community service", "common labor", "joined effort", etc... "Lit-" as in "literal" plus "urgy" as in "urge" or "urgent"... Liturgy is the literal work of the gathering of the faithful - We come together in Christ's "House of Prayer" and we pray for ourselves, we pray for our neighbors, we pray for seasonable weather, we pray for our ruling authorities, we pray for the world, we pray for those who love us, and for those who hate us, and on and on... These are the prayers we all make together in the intonation of the Ektenias of the Church - And an Ektenia literally means a "holding forth", where the clergy intones at its beginning: "In Peace, Let us pray to the Lord..." and the congregation chants in reply: "Lord have Mercy..." And the rest of these prayers similarly ensue, and are repeated throughout the Service(s)...

The one thing I know is that when I pray for another, good things happen...
And...
When I pray for myself, not so much, and much less often...

Arsenios

 

[Truth Lover]

No, altar calls are more specific than that. An altar call happens at the end of a worship service, when the pastor or evangelist pleads for anyone who hasn't received Jesus as their Lord and Savior to come forward and pray. He will then either lead a group prayer for all those kneeling at the figurative altar, or there will be others that come forward to pray with the penitents. The altar call is virtually always accompanied by soft moving music. It is, basically, a highly emotional appeal.

Where in Scripture is the ritual of altar calls? Or is that a Protestant invention? How is it a continuation of the Christian tradition based on Jewish rites of worship? Is it what Jesus commanded to do at the Last Supper?

 

[Arsenios]

@LoveofTruth
In case you missed this the first time around.

I fear LoveofTruth has given up on us...

I pray that he doesn't...

Arsenios

 

[Open Heart]

Where in Scripture is the ritual of altar calls? Or is that a Protestant invention? How is it a continuation of the Christian tradition based on Jewish rites of worship? Is it what Jesus commanded to do at the Last Supper?

Altar calls are an evangelical invention. They are not wrong per se, but they are a tradition, and it kind of makes them hypocritical when they criticize others for having man made traditions.

I said that LITURGY was continued from Judaism into Christianity. Yes, the words of the communion rite (and when supper was ended, he took the cup and said...) are part of liturgy.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I fear LoveofTruth has given up on us...

I pray that he doesn't...

Arsenios

I haven't given up just a bit busy

back soon Lord willing

 

[LoveofTruth]

Here is the first Church in Jerusalem as it looks today:

It is maintained, as much as it can be, by the Orthodox...


Arsenios

This seems fake to me. I have been to Jerusalem and there and many so called holy sites, each one claiming to be an original. But it could just as easily been used for Jewish people hiding from Roman occupation, or simply a home in that area. Many of the homes in that area were similar. This is not a so called "church Building".

It is very clear from scripture that the early church met in homes all through the NT. This is the pattern we see.

Here are some clear verses showing the apostolic pattern they followed as led by the Spirit from the very start, why would we want to do anything different. If the home meeting gets to big start another home meeting and keep growing.

“and breaking bread from house to house,” ( Acts 2;46)

“ As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison. “ (Acts 8:3) Paul knew where to find them.

“ And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house”(Acts 20:20)

“Likewise greet the church that is in their house.” (Romans 16:5)

“...Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the church that is in their house” (1 Corinthians 16:19)

“Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house. “ (Colossians 4:15)

“And to our beloved Apphia, and Archippus our fellowsoldier, and to the church in thy house” (Philemon 1:2)

“If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed” (2 John 10 )

“And they went out of the prison, and entered into the house of Lydia: and when they had seen the brethren, they comforted them, and departed. “ (Acts 16:40)

“And when he had considered the thing, he came to the house of Mary the mother of John, whose surname was Mark; where many were gathered together praying” (Acts 12:12)

“But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people” (Acts 17:5)

It is clear that the Spirit led them to do this as a pattern and this is the way Paul and others ordered gatherings as they were following God’s order in the Spirit. We know this because Paul was confident that he was following Christ as a wise master builder and he was led by the Spirit in what he did as were the other apostles who followed Christ in this as well. This leading Paul had included whatever things the believers learned from him, and what he did in word or deed, (Philippians 4:9). This would include setting church order in homes around Christ. If Paul did not plant churches this way, where do we think they got the idea to meet as they did? The question is not do we have to do things the way they did ? The question is why would you want to do anything else?

The Jewish believers also use to go to the temple, because they had not come out of the old covenant yet, it was fading away and ready to vanish. It took time for that reformation and until then many Jewish believes kept the law went to the temple, offered sacrifices did all the Jewish customs etc as we see all through Acts, particularly in Acts 21.

But because the Jewish believers still struggling with the law went to the temple that doesn't mean we should do so today. The church is the body of Christ we are the temple of God. The most high dwelleth not in temples made with hands/

 

[Arsenios]

I haven't given up just a bit busy

back soon Lord willing

My prayer is answered!

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

The Jewish believers also use to go to the temple, because they had not come out of the old covenant yet, it was fading away and ready to vanish. It took time for that reformation and until then many Jewish believes kept the law went to the temple, offered sacrifices did all the Jewish customs etc as we see all through Acts, particularly in Acts 21.

That indeed was what Paul's ministry was about - eg This transformation of the Temple Worship of the Jews under the Law into the New Covenant of the Body and Blood of Christ...

But because the Jewish believers still struggling with the law went to the temple that doesn't mean we should do so today. The church is the body of Christ we are the temple of God. The most high dwelleth not in temples made with hands/

He does not dwell in buildings, but in people, I agree... Yet you will find Him lingering where His People worship, where His Body and His Blood abide...

But the bigger question comes with the Ministry of Jesus - Was it not for the sake of the House of Israel? Was not the Faith of the Christ to come through that House? And did not that House reject and persecute that Faith of Christ and have Christ Crucified and his followers persecuted, imprisoned and stoned? And as with Adam, the first plan failed, as God knew it would, and so came the Faith of Christ through the Jew Saul unto the Gentiles, apart from the Law, through the discipleship of Christ's Faith...

And is it not then also true that the scattering of the Christian Jews, throughout the world and even into the catecomb churches of Jerusalem, was the only way that such a Faith even COULD exist? eg Hidden? So that the houses, the homes, of the faithful, became the Sanctuaries of the Faithful for their gatherings, but only because the Jews were persecuting them, as were the Gentiles... Once the persecutions stopped, then the Christians could build as they so longed to build - Holy Houses of Prayer, dedicated to God alone, and not serving also as kitchens and bathrooms and bedrooms...

Have a Blessed Easter...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

So I ran across this prayer of St. Isaac the Syrian to know and love God:

Saint Isaac the Syrian

Make me worthy, O Lord, to know and love Thee,
not with knowledge from the exercise of a scattered nous;
but make me worthy of that knowledge whereby,
beholding Thee, the nous glorifies Thy nature,
in divine vision which robs the mind of awareness of the world.

Account me worthy to be lifted above
my will's wandering eye which begets imaginings,
and to behold Thee in the constraint of the Cross's bond,
in the second part of the crucifixion of the nous,
which willingly ceases from its conceptual imaginings
to abide in Thy continuous vision that surpasses nature.

Implant in my heart an increase of Thy Love,
that it may be drawn back from this world
by fervent love for Thee.

Awaken in me understanding of Thy humility,
wherewith Thou didst sojourn in the world
in the covering of flesh
which Thou didst bear from our members
by the mediation of the Holy Virgin,

That with this continual and unfailing recollection
I may accept the humility of my nature with delight.

Arsenios

 

[prodromos]

It is very clear from scripture that the early church met in homes all through the NT. This is the pattern we see.

The Gospels and Epistles were all written within roughly the first 50 years of the Church, after which came intense persecution. Despite this persecution, archaeological evidence demonstrates that homes were either permanently converted into churches, or new structures were built for the express purpose of worship.

 

[Arsenios]

Archaeological evidence demonstrates that homes were either permanently converted into churches, or new structures were built for the express purpose of worship.

And in this they were but following Christ's words attested in all three synoptic Gospels:
"It is written,
'My House shall be called the House of Prayer';
but ye have made it a den of thieves."
A House of Prayer belonging to the Lord to which the Faithful come to worship God and pray for the world and for each other...

One of the senses of the word Holy means consecrated, which means set apart for God's usage only... So that the "Holy Things", those not to be cast down before swine, are those set aside to only be used in the Service of God...
This is what the Church is,
and what the Saints are...

Few are the homes that are so consecrated, because the Marriage Bed, though undefiled, is consecrated to the needs of the husband and wife, and to the bearing of children...

To have sexual relations in a Church is to defile it...

But to do so in one's home is not necessarily so...

Arsenios

 

[LoveofTruth]

And in this they were but following Christ's words attested in all three synoptic Gospels:
"It is written,
'My House shall be called the House of Prayer';
but ye have made it a den of thieves."
A House of Prayer belonging to the Lord to which the Faithful come to worship God and pray for the world and for each other...

One of the senses of the word Holy means consecrated, which means set apart for God's usage only... So that the "Holy Things", those not to be cast down before swine, are those set aside to only be used in the Service of God...
This is what the Church is,
and what the Saints are...

Few are the homes that are so consecrated, because the Marriage Bed, though undefiled, is consecrated to the needs of the husband and wife, and to the bearing of children...

To have sexual relations in a Church is to defile it...

But to do so in one's home is not necessarily so...

Arsenios

Acts 7:49
"47 But Solomon built him an house. 48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, 49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? 50 Hath not my hand made all these things? 51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."

and Jesus said,

John 2:19
"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

and we read

Mark 14:58
"We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands."

and "
2 Corinthians 5:1
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

2 Corinthians 5:2
For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:"

and

Hebrews 3:6
But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end."

and

1 Peter 2:5
"Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."

and you may want to remember all those "church which meets in their house verses" that i share a few post earlier..There is not one verse in the entire new testament that shows the church Christ is building is physical building of brick and morter. Not one. All references to the church of Jesus Christ are to the body of Christ, a siritual house.

I marvel at how some will try soo hard to make their babel buildings and man made religion to try and fit into scripture. It is amazing.

 

[LoveofTruth]

The Gospels and Epistles were all written within roughly the first 50 years of the Church, after which came intense persecution. Despite this persecution, archaeological evidence demonstrates that homes were either permanently converted into churches, or new structures were built for the express purpose of worship.

a physical home is never called a church, all we read in the holy scripture ( which we are to try all doctrines by) is the "church which meets in their home" the church is the called out assembly of believers gathered n Christ. Jesus Christ is the head of that body. This is a spiritual house made up of living stones.

To miss this is to see only natural things and miss the spiritual.

 

[Arsenios]

All references to the Church of Jesus Christ
are to the Body of Christ, a Spiritual House.

It is a House of flesh and blood, my Brother...
It is an INCARNATE House...
Buildings come and go - We all agree...
The Church is the Ekklesia of God...
Called out from the world unto God...
And now in this the New Covenant...
The Covenant of the Body and the Blood of our Lord...
With the Holy Spirit of God within human flesh...
The New Creation of Divinity within our vessels of clay...
We walk this earth with Christ in us...
Christ within our very flesh and bones...

The Ekklesia of God in the New Covenant of the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ is an Ekklesia of flesh and blood - It is not some hairy fairy pie in the sky so-called spiritual body...

It is the heavenly body of Christ upon the earth -

As David foretold:
Thou hast prepared a table before me
in the midst of them that are afflicting me.
Thou hast annointed my head with oil,
and Thy Cup which filleth me how excellent it is,
and Thy Mercy shall pursue me all the days of my life
And I will dwell in the House of the Lord unto length of days...

We walk the earth as heavenly ones...
Caring for heavenly things,
Walking with Christ in us...
Making no provision for the flesh...

So when Paul is referring to the Ekklesia, he is referring to flesh and blood -
To Luke the Physician, to Phebe, Priscilla, Aquila, Epaenetus, Mary, Andronicus and Junia, Amplias, Urbane, Stachys, Apelles, Aristobulus' household, Herodion, Narcissus, Tryphena and Tryphosa, Persis, Rufus and his mother, Asyncritus, Phlegon, Hermas, Patrobas, Hermes, and the brethren which are with them, Philologus, and Julia, Nereus, and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints which are with them.

These folks, you see, are all flesh and blood, and they gather together as One Body of Christ... This Gathering, the Ekklesia, is a flesh and blood Gathering, IS the Body of Christ on earth, here and now, because wwe partake of His Body and of His Blood... And are Baptized into Him...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

This is a spiritual house made up of living stones.

To miss this is to see only natural things and miss the spiritual.

Please do not be so quick to think that those who see the incarnation of Christ into human flesh as missing the spiritual and having only natural things in view... Walking upon the earth in the flesh with eyes raised to the heavenlies is a Spiritual Way of walking... The first Christians were called the Followers of the Way, and the Way was Christ...

The first Christians dedicated structures of beauty in which to worship insofar as they were able to do so, in homes, in houses, in temples... These homes and houses and temples were dedicated and consecrated to the worship of God in Spirit and in Truth... When the Great Cathedrals were consecrated, then was Satan bound by the laws of Christian Governance...

Unlike right now under ex-Protestant governance...

The People of God before Christ had God in Spirit...
And now we have God in the Flesh...
Why then do you seek to return to the pre-incarnate God?
And call the Body of Christ a Spiritual Body?

It is a Mystery, my Brother...
The Mystery of the Faith of Christ...
Held in a purged conscience...

God Bless you this Lazarus Sunday...
From the Orthodox Christian Faith...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

I marvel at how some will try soo hard to make their babel buildings and man made religion to try and fit into scripture. It is amazing.

Again, I beseech you - Please do not be so quick to leap into the judgemental religiosity of marveling and amazement at what you see as other people's error with the name-calling of "their babel buildings and man made religion"...

What you are seeing is the Ekklesia of Christ in history as it impacts the cultural ethnicities of the world... These are the Churches the Ekklesia has erected from the first century of the Faith... And they are the same in all places and at all times, as are the Services handed down from generation to generation...

Unless you think that Christ utterly failed to establish His Apostolic Church Body upon the earth and only managed to get some monks to keep old manuscripts around until the printing press was invented and Bibles went into mass production, you must be able to look and see how it is that Christ did in fact succeed and did in fact not fail in His efforts for the first one thousand five hundred years of the Faith of Christ that gave the Bible to you...

And the Apostolic Churches you see are in fact a footprint of our God in History, consistently portrayed for 2,000 years now, not the monstrosity of which you wish to accuse us...

Your out of hand rejection of this Apostolic Faith and your accusation of it is a slap in the Face to Christ our God who did not fail in His establishment of His Body, the Ekklesia, upon this earth even from the very beginnings until this day and hour...

We are brothers to our accusers...

We are YOUR brothers...

Arsenios