What is the purpose of going to church?

Hismessenger

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He also said that if no one praised him he could make the rocks cry out. It's not about us. This is where most religions fail for they preach a false doctrine that God has to use us to work in the earth. Where were we when he created the whole of the universe and whom did he use to do it. The truth stands before you for he is God all by himself and his works are beyond understanding. Don't take the wide path following what you hear from men but seek the Holy Spirit for he is given to guide us into all truth.

hismessenger
 
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zelosravioli

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I did not mean to be negative about your statement Kyle Arn, I am critical of the common phrase 'serving' at church generally means helping to 'support the service' and its big production. The common liturgical/sermon format turning into a bigger and bigger production/show, the protestants just doing the same thing as the Catholics only with more variety...
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :liturgy: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :sleep:

(And I don't want to seem to disagree with Hismessenger as I agree that 'we are the Church' 'God doesn't need man' Both the points are valid, and we agree. I commend Kyle for very diplomatic and wise answers and posts too, to what sounded like an attack by me. In fact Kyle you made my point by saying God works through people! Amen! Amen to Messenger, certainly much of religion is about manipulating God to our needs and impulses, or creating gods that will. Seek the Holy Spirit above all created things, and follow God alone)
 
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zelosravioli

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May I rephrase my point: The 'new man' is God living in us and us in God. The Church is The Body of Christ: He is The Head, and we are all members of His body. The Pastors should not be the head of The Body of Christ, which is what most every common church format represents (just as the Pope is the visible head of that church).

The modern Sunday church service promotes and models the pastor(s) as head(s) of the church(s), and the whole assembly is in subjection to the Pastors leadership. But this is wrong, Jesus said "It shall not be so among you".

When we call someone 'The' Pastor they are actually assuming the biblical place of Christ (Shepherd means pastor, The Shepherd is Christ). You can have many pastors in the servant helping / ministering roles, and actually the church's should be full of many pastors, you just have to reconsider that the biblical pastor / priest / leader / teacher role should apply to any Godly 'mature' believer, that IS The new covenant (we are a kingdom of priests). But this 'one' pastor 'system' stunts everyone's growth, practice and use of their gift and understanding. A simple New Testament review of bible principles should reveal to us that we have stepped into the abyss when we call someone 'The' pastor. We should have 'many' wise Elders, teachers, evangelists and preachers even in a small healthy church. These should not be 'offices' held by very few. But, that is what we have. We find a 'service' is where a 'few' do 'all' the talking and 'all' the 'ministering'. And it is 'all' a great production, where the sermon and Pastor/Preacher is most often the central 'event' while most everyone sits in the audience and watches. Or they are serving in the childcare, or collecting monies, or parking cars, etc. (To me it seems like one big childcare center. At least the children often get more interaction with each other, while the adults are pacified by sucking on milk, and the pastors thumb for an hour, like babies).

'Preaching' was meant to announce new information not known or accessible to the general assembly. Preaching was a general practice to unbelievers, the unrepentant or uninformed, this was never meant to be a ritual to replace what some understand and experience as meeting with friends who are believers to talk and enjoy meeting like friends do, and worship together on Sunday mornings. Although speeches and preaching has its place, a tradition of oratory and rhetoric on Sunday replaced what discipleship, fellowship and being filled with the Spirit was meant to accomplish. The Papal leadership were assumed to have the Holy Spirit and words from God in Catholicism, and the Lutherans and reformers didn't remove this tradition, and turned the ritual liturgy into the ritual sermon time.

Gods Spirit was given to 'every' believer to use and be led of, even on Sundays! The Spirit unites us all in One Spirit together, that was His prayer. Uniting and oneness does not happen just by sitting in pews. Oneness happens through conversation with one another. Singing, praying, reading and learning 'together' in the Spirit creates oneness with one another! Every Sunday we let some pastor do all the talking for us, lead us in prayer, then we have a choir or band sing 'for us' (don't believe I am bashing choirs and bands I LOVE the music of worship), but in order to go enjoy the music we get trapped in our seats, and forced to listen to whatever the Pastor has to say, rather than anyone else. Week after week until no one knows how to teach, disciple and share. Or experience what it is like to be moved to speak, pray, love or comfort another believer. The amount of time and opportunity allowed in church to get to know other believers around Gods Word and in His Spirit on a Sunday, is pathetic. It is supposedly all done for us by the Head Pastor, or professionals of these church institutions.

All we originally needed was a larger building (than our homes) to meet and have fellowship in, that's all! A place to sing together, congregate, and speak to one another about God, what God was showing and teaching each of us, that's what we needed. Instead we have found church is church, and friendship and fellowship happens elsewhere, dinners, ball games, at card tables, AA meetings, shopping malls, everywhere else, because church is not enjoyable and fun, because it is a duty, and it is a service (not).
:yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :preach: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :yawn: :sleep:

Church should be like a great family reunion around God and His Word! With everyone enjoying and sharing their share in Gods Spirit. This is still possible! This has been possible ever since the introduction of printed bibles, tables and chairs.

:groupray: :groupray: :groupray: :groupray: :groupray: :groupray: :groupray: :groupray: :groupray: :wave:
 
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Kyle Arn

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Well said i would agree. That often times many can misplace the true leader Jesus. Even some Pastors and Preachers can be serving only themselves. This is why we all must be in tune with The Holy Spirit. For the Holy Spirit is the guide. Once we all are in tune with what God wants then this is the healthiest state of a Church. For a Christ serving church without Christ really is not a church at all. Just where people can gather and feel good about them self's. You see there is a difference between going to church. And having church. Church is a place where i can learn to grow and grow in my relationship with God. To do this it takes work. You must press in to Gods desire. But if i just go to church sit down and never grow in my relationship with God what point is there to Church. You see going to church gives you seeds and soil and water. But then you have to put that to work. So that you can grow. Going to church takes no spiritual effort having church is far more effective and takes effort. So use the tools that you get from going to church.
 
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Open Heart

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What do the sacraments mean to you? Like what sacraments do the catholics have and what kind of meaning do they have to you? For example I think that the view you have on eucharist is slightly different then other christians... and I think confession was a sacrament as well, but how often do the most catholics actually go to confession? I agree with the above statement though, sounds awfully lutheran (or maybe we just copied it from you catholics LOL... I maybe ought to become catholic.).
To receive the sacraments is to receive grace for the journey. I consider receiving eucharist to be my spiritual food for the week. I can't speak for all Catholics -- it really depends on the individual -- but I try to go to confession once a month or as needed in order to stay in good standing.
 
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sunsurfkdt

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I haven't been in awhile honestly, but I do miss it, bc I went regularly. It is uplifting. I've been doing all my worship on my own. I miss a good church home. After leaving Catholicism , I've been on new quests for a new church. But I miss having someone spiritual to look up to! I miss hearing services. Gd does expect you to go to church if you're able to. It's just one day, one hour after all. But I'm much happier going to church ...happy also knowing I'm pleasing Gd
 
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faroukfarouk

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I haven't been in awhile honestly, but I do miss it, bc I went regularly. It is uplifting. I've been doing all my worship on my own. I miss a good church home. After leaving Catholicism , I've been on new quests for a new church. But I miss having someone spiritual to look up to! I miss hearing services. Gd does expect you to go to church if you're able to. It's just one day, one hour after all. But I'm much happier going to church ...happy also knowing I'm pleasing Gd
People that practise Acts 2.42 is a good guide, when looking for a local company of Christians. :)
 
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Arsenios

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Divine Liturgy = "work of the people"

One forgettable Orthodox writer translates Liturgy as Community Service...

We serve God in His Services in His Body the Church...

And it is a Faith and Worship Community, this Church...

It is a Hospital for the sick...

And Her prayers uphold creation...

An old adage in the middle east runs (regarding a town) No Orthodox? What a pity...

Such are our prayers for all...

Arsenios
 
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FireDragon76

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Yes to the above and:

The gathered community comes together around Christ, who calls us together to receive His Word and Sacrament, in and by which we are nourished, made alive, and function as the Church; as the very Body of Jesus Christ our Lord.

What if somebody doesn't find church particularly nourishing? I find it incredibly stressful, and the sermons are seldom inspiring.
 
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Arsenios

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What if somebody doesn't find church particularly nourishing? I find it incredibly stressful, and the sermons are seldom inspiring.

The Divine Liturgy is the common work of prayer for one another and for the world...

It is a work where the faithful gather together for prayer and receiving Holy Communion...

If the Homily [Sermon] lasts much more than 10 minutes, it is usually too long...

"My House is a House of Prayer!" [Christ]

We are nourished and nurtured by the Church, our Mother...

Services are work...

Arsenios
 
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FireDragon76

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The Divine Liturgy is the common work of prayer for one another and for the world...

That doesn't really answer my question.
 
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Arsenios

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The Divine Liturgy is the common work of prayer for one another and for the world...

That doesn't really answer my question.

It would mean that the purpose of going to Church is to participate in the Church's work of prayer for the faithful and for the world...

As well, if you are Orthodox Christian, you also receive the Holy Gifts, and as well, the Grace imparted by the very fact of participating in a Service commanded by Christ to His Disciples...

But these are the Services of the Orthodox Church, kept from the beginnings, and first written down after the cessation of the persecutions in the 4th century by various Hierarchs...

Church is Home for the faithful, and especially so as they are dragged through the vicissitudes of life in this falleness wherein we tread for so short a time...

God Bless You, my Friend...

Arsenios
 
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Arsenios

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What if somebody doesn't find church particularly nourishing? I find it incredibly stressful, and the sermons are seldom inspiring.

Find an Orthodox Church and attend a Service...

Or PM me and I will find one for you...

Any sermon over 10 minutes gets boo-ed...

Well, maybe not boo-ed... But the Service is not about the Sermon [homily], but is about the prayers chanted and prayed, and worship of God...

I like to say that Christianity is not what you think...

It is who you are and what you do...

Thoughts are but a small part of that...

And most of them wandering...

Arsenios
 
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FireDragon76

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I was an Orthodox catechumen for the better half of a decade. It ended in being told that I could not join the church. Orthodox Christianity is simply not an option for me. I liked the worship, I did not care for the right-wing politics.
 
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Arsenios

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I was an Orthodox catechumen for the better half of a decade. It ended in being told that I could not join the church. Orthodox Christianity is simply not an option for me. I liked the worship, I did not care for the right-wing politics.

Ouch!

I have been fairly dismayed at the Left-Wing politics!

They vary pretty much from parish to parish...

Convert Churches, including much of their clergy, it must be remembered, are, after all...
And I used to introduce my old Priest this way...
Jes' sayin', by way of warning you...
Mind you...

RECOVERING EVANGELLICALS!

:)

Arsenios

ps - Could not join the Church?

What happened?

You wouldn't stop living with your girl-friend with whom you were not married?
Or your boyfriend?
Or or ???
I mean, for a Priest to tell you that you cannot be baptized is a big deal...
The Creed not right for you?
Some mortal sin you wouldn't give up?

You can PM me if you like...

The Orthodox Services are lovely, no question...

Arsenios
 
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Thursday

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Hey!
I just though to ask you what people go to church for: do you think that church is supposed to be the place where you hear good teaching, or do you go there for common worship, or is it a place where you believe you can serve Christ in the best way? Do you think only one of these aspects is enough to make a good church or is one supposed to be able to find it a suitable place for each of these, or even more things? And do you think that every christian ought to have a special service task at church or is it ok to just go and enjoy teaching and maybe tithe?

We have Mass to worship and to receive God’s grace, to unify with him and with other worshipers through the sacrament of the Eucharist. As a sacrament, it is that Jesus himself acting through the Eucharist, and supplies all the graces we derive from it.

http://www.aboutcatholics.com/beliefs/the-purpose-of-mass/
 
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FireDragon76

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You wouldn't stop living with your girl-friend with whom you were not married?

That's pretty much it... we are both disabled and cannot get married without severe financial repurcussions. It's a very long story. I committed my life to her after I left the church, then I decided to go back despite my misgivings about the politics of most Orthodox Christians in the US. The priest encouraged me at first to go to another church or religious group, then finally, after months of attendance and expressing a desire to be chrismated, he just came out and told me I could not join the Orthodox church.

The Orthodox Services are lovely, no question...

Yes... but the cause they are often devoted to is often not, which is more important for me. I read enough of the Bible I know God as presented there isn't primarily interested in our religious rituals. Sometimes they are even said to be offensive. It's not something most Orthodox Christians want to hear, because in my experience many of them are attached to those rituals a great deal to the exclusion of more weighthier matters.

Anyways, I am done feeling sorry for myself. It's really the Orthodox Church that is losing out, not me. I'm a good person and I try to live a good life. I don't want to be involved in a parish like that, that has so little compassion they prefer legalism over relationships with good people.
 
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Arsenios

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That's pretty much it... we are both disabled and cannot get married without severe financial repurcussions. It's a very long story. I committed my life to her after I left the church, then I decided to go back despite my misgivings about the politics of most Orthodox Christians in the US. The priest encouraged me at first to go to another church or religious group, then finally, after months of attendance and expressing a desire to be chrismated, he just came out and told me I could not join the Orthodox church.



Yes... but the cause they are often devoted to is often not, which is more important for me. I read enough of the Bible I know God as presented there isn't primarily interested in our religious rituals. Sometimes they are even said to be offensive. It's not something most Orthodox Christians want to hear, because in my experience many of them are attached to those rituals a great deal to the exclusion of more weighthier matters.

Anyways, I am done feeling sorry for myself. It's really the Orthodox Church that is losing out, not me. I'm a good person and I try to live a good life. I don't want to be involved in a parish like that, that has so little compassion they prefer legalism over relationships with good people.

Well, if you don't like what most Orthodox Christians hold to politically, that is one thing... But if she is willing to become Orthodox with you and get married in the Church but cannot for financial reasons involving both of you, perhaps you could ONLY get married in the Church, or perhaps you could find a Bishop who would give you the ekonomia needed for your particular circumstances...

A lot of them ARE recovering Evangellicals, remember... And I know some Orthodox who don't cotton to them at all... Just like you... The Church is itself not concerned with politics, but its members sure can be... I used to be a Libertarian - These days I could live under Putin or Islam with equal aplomb, but would prefer Putin...

But it looks like it is a settled matter for you, so God Bless You and your lady in your walk together...

Second and third opinions are a good thing...

Have you considered an ethnic Arabic parish?

Arsenios
 
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tz620q

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I haven't been in awhile honestly, but I do miss it, bc I went regularly. It is uplifting. I've been doing all my worship on my own. I miss a good church home. After leaving Catholicism , I've been on new quests for a new church. But I miss having someone spiritual to look up to! I miss hearing services. Gd does expect you to go to church if you're able to. It's just one day, one hour after all. But I'm much happier going to church ...happy also knowing I'm pleasing Gd
I don't know you and could easily be wrong; but statistically, you are indicative of a large problem. Many people work to evangelize Catholics out of the Catholic Church. They are successful for many; but there is an even larger group that having their Catholic faith destroyed just become unchurched. If you look at Ex-Catholics, the unchurched group is much bigger than the number that switched to a different church.
 
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