What is the purpose of endlessly singing the same lyric or phrase?

JOYFUL-ONE

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I'm thinking through this issue. Does this repetitious singing enhance worship in "Spirit and Truth" (Jn 4.24)? Or is it perhaps just massaging my feelings and even detracting from God? Is the core of worship to focus on God, His character, His deeds, His provision, with thankfulness in my mind?
 

EastCoastRemnant

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We are told not to use vain repetitions in Matt 6:7. While the verse specifically mentions prayer, singing to God is a form of prayer.

The danger of mindlessly repeating a word or phrase is it can take us onto Satans vantage ground as we allow our minds to become open to the spirits. Eastern mysticism uses this technique through chants and can take us into a trance like state, opening us up to the enemy.
 
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Dave-W

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And yet we shall - for ALL ETERNITY - stand before HIS throne singing the same lyrics over and over and over. Read Rev 5.


11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice,
"Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing."

13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying,

"To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever."

14 And the four living creatures kept saying, "Amen." And the elders fell down and worshiped.​
 
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Dave-W

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We are told not to use vain repetitions in Matt 6:7.
"Vain" being the operative word. Our Lord Himself was in the synagogue every Sabbath "as was his custom;" (Luke 4:16" and the synagogue service at that time had 3 central prayers that were repeated every day, every week: the Kaddish, the Amidah and the Alenu.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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"Vain" being the operative word. Our Lord Himself was in the synagogue every Sabbath "as was his custom;" (Luke 4:16" and the synagogue service at that time had 3 central prayers that were repeated every day, every week: the Kaddish, the Amidah and the Alenu.
Modern contemplative prayer, aka spiritual formation, uses this principle to lead adherents to open themselves to deceiving spirits. It instructs the person to repeat a word or a phrase to be taken into a meditative trance in order to meet "god"
 
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Dave-W

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Modern contemplative prayer, aka spiritual formation, uses this principle to lead adherents to open themselves to deceiving spirits. It instructs the person to repeat a word or a phrase to be taken into a meditative trance in order to meet "god"
There is nothing modern about that. Hinduism has been using that technique for millennia.
But it is a perversion of a godly principle.
 
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brinny

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There is nothing modern about that. Hinduism has been using that technique for millennia.
But it is a perversion of a godly principle.

i believe that is the point of post #6.
 
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Dave-W

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i believe that is the point of post #6.
There is a term in Judaism "kavanah" which means intent of the heart. To pray a rote prayer without kavanah is considered worthless.

But praying WITH intent of the heart is NEVER 'vain."
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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We are told not to use vain repetitions in Matt 6:7. While the verse specifically mentions prayer, singing to God is a form of prayer.

The danger of mindlessly repeating a word or phrase is it can take us onto Satans vantage ground as we allow our minds to become open to the spirits. Eastern mysticism uses this technique through chants and can take us into a trance like state, opening us up to the enemy.


I agree, but we are told to meditate in the word day and night.Meditation is repetition .When in worship and the songs are repetitious, they drive the word of God deep into our spirits. So when we leave church service, the song and the worship reverberates in our spirits. You will be walking down the street and you will be singing that repetitious song will be stirring in your heart. You may find yourself singing it, or humming it, and the joy of the Lord will manifest. The devil just copies what God wants us to do. He wants the same worship that Our Father gets, so he has his disciples do tthe same things.
Ephesians 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

This song for instance imho is very powerful worship and it is very repetitious. But if you use it during your devotional time, singing it and praising our Father, it will help user you into our Father's presence .
 
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brinny

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There is a term in Judaism "kavanah" which means intent of the heart. To pray a rote prayer without kavanah is considered worthless.

But praying WITH intent of the heart is NEVER 'vain."

Yes, God looks on the intent of the heart. There are many places where it is written in His Word that anything said to Him, sung to Him etc. with a heart that is "far from Him" is insulting to Him.
 
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Dave-W

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So when you pray or sing, do it with your heart's intent.

We will all be singing some version of this lyric for a VERY LONG TIME.

 
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brinny

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So when you pray or sing, do it with your heart's intent.

We will all be singing some version of this lyric for a VERY LONG TIME.


Are you tryin' to promote yer video Dave?

:D
 
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Dave-W

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Are you tryin' to promote yer video Dave?
Just showin' an example. :)

It is not much of a video actually. The only imagery on it is the CD cover.
My label (CD Baby) put it up without my knowledge.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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I agree, but we are told to meditate in the word day and night.Meditation is repetition

I disagree that meditating on the Word is only repetition... meditating is also to think on the Word... the sacrifice of Christ.

med·i·tate
ˈmedəˌtāt/
verb
verb: meditate; 3rd person present: meditates; past tense: meditated; past participle: meditated; gerund or present participle: meditating
  1. think deeply or focus one's mind for a period of time, in silence or with the aid of chanting, for religious or spiritual purposes or as a method of relaxation.
    • think deeply or carefully about (something).
      "he went off to meditate on the new idea"
      synonyms: contemplate, think, consider, ponder, muse, reflect, deliberate, ruminate, chew the cud, brood, mull something over; More
      be in a brown study, be deep/lost in thought, debate with oneself;
      pray;
      informalput on one's thinking cap;
      formalcogitate
      "please allow me more time to meditate"
    • plan mentally; consider.
      "they had suffered severely, and they began to meditate retreat"
 
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Halbhh

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And yet we shall - for ALL ETERNITY - stand before HIS throne singing the same lyrics over and over and over. Read Rev 5.


11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice,
"Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing."

13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying,

"To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever."

14 And the four living creatures kept saying, "Amen." And the elders fell down and worshiped.​

Hi Dave, if we are actually going to sing 'the same lyrics over and over and over' I'm sure it would be rapturous, and I can imagine doing that at times too, but you seem to have quoted a passage not showing that. I don't know of one that says that, but if there is you can tell me about it. As far as I imagine (meaning just a guess; since we only know some limited information about the New Heaven and New Earth to come) we might even have quite a variety (meaning millions or even more?) of songs, but this is only a guess of course. Is there some other scripture saying differently?
 
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JOYFUL-ONE

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How many times should one read and reread a verse he is studying--2,4, 6 times? Perhaps as long as there is still 'meat on the bone' then move on. Perhaps it is similar with singing? Some songs are rich, others leave us flat, cold. And it varies with the person obviously.
 
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dreadnought

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I'm thinking through this issue. Does this repetitious singing enhance worship in "Spirit and Truth" (Jn 4.24)? Or is it perhaps just massaging my feelings and even detracting from God? Is the core of worship to focus on God, His character, His deeds, His provision, with thankfulness in my mind?
I'm not sure exactly what you are getting at. I think worship serves more than one purpose. We want to focus on bringing about the Lord's will, which pretty much can be summed up in the two great commandments, I think (Matt 22:34-40).
 
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FenderTL5

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Sometimes, in a live service, it's the worship leader stretching to allow the pastor time to return from 'freshening up' before the sermon.
It happens.
 
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RDKirk

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Jesus said: "...like the pagans."

So how did the pagans His audience was most familiar with--the Romans--do their praying?

All sacrifices and offerings required an accompanying prayer to be effective. Pliny the Elder declared that "a sacrifice without prayer is thought to be useless and not a proper consultation of the gods."[34] Prayer by itself, however, had independent power. The spoken word was thus the single most potent religious action, and knowledge of the correct verbal formulas the key to efficacy.[35] Accurate naming was vital for tapping into the desired powers of the deity invoked, hence the proliferation of cult epithets among Roman deities.[36] Public prayers (prex) were offered loudly and clearly by a priest on behalf of the community. Public religious ritual had to be enacted by specialists and professionals faultlessly; a mistake might require that the action, or even the entire festival, be repeated from the start.[37] The historian Livy reports an occasion when the presiding magistrate at the Latin festival forgot to include the "Roman people" among the list of beneficiaries in his prayer; the festival had to be started over.[38] Even private prayer by an individual was formulaic, a recitation rather than a personal expression, though selected by the individual for a particular purpose or occasion.

There is the "vain repetition" Jesus was talking about.
 
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