What is the most conservative Lutheran denomination?

What is the most conservative Lutheran denomination?

  • WELS/ELS

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • CLC

    Votes: 1 11.1%
  • LCR

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • ELDONA

    Votes: 2 22.2%
  • OALC/LLC

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • OLCC

    Votes: 1 11.1%
  • Other (Comment below)

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
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I have always been in the LCMS as well as my family however I have taken an interest in visiting (not joining) some other Lutheran Churches in my free time this summer. Which ones do you think are the most conservative, because I would like to prioritize these.
Side Question- There is an Old Apostolic And Laestadian Lutheran Church within an hours drive. Would those also be worth a visit?
 

Arcangl86

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I never heard of most of those denominations, but WELS/ELS is more conservative then the LCMS and if you were to visit would not be able to receive communion. My understanding is that most restrict communion to members of that congregation, not just denomination like LCMS.
 
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Dakota Brother

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Members of WELS and ELS can receive communion at any of the WELS/ELS churches, not only just their "home" church.
From the WELS website:

The practice of close or closed communion refers to our desire to speak with potential communicants prior to their receiving communion with us and to make sure adequate Bible instruction as well as a unity in our beliefs is present prior to communing together. The main reasons why we do this are these:

  • We want to protect souls who might do damage to themselves since the Lord’s Supper is for believers who are not only baptized but also instructed and knowledgeable about what they receive in the sacrament and why.
  • We want to protect souls since those who commune are to examine themselves prior to communing, so we want to be sure those who commune with us have been trained how to do this and possess the level of understanding and maturity to make it meaningful.
  • We want to protect souls and show integrity as we publicly confess Bible truths since all who commune together are expressing unity in the Christian faith and in their allegience to the Bible. We want this expression to be genuine and not a sham or hypocritical pretending we have unity if indeed we don’t.
So we want to speak with potential communicants when we are not sure about their preparation to receive the sacrament.
 
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Dakota Brother

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As to the services, I don't think you will find much difference between WELS or LCMS, both use many of same material, the difference is in
some of the practices such as allowing a woman to hold a church council office (see 1 Timothy 2:12). In this example Scripture needs to be followed, not what society deems to be "pc"
 
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Korah

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Sorry about my Post #3. I had not noticed the poll, and was responding only to Posts #1 and #2.
That said, the poll apparently lists only very conservative Lutheran bodies that need some explaining to identify them. And if they're that small, they're probably not relevant to visit, too few locations.
 
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Arcangl86

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Members of WELS and ELS can receive communion at any of the WELS/ELS churches, not only just their "home" church.
From the WELS website:

The practice of close or closed communion refers to our desire to speak with potential communicants prior to their receiving communion with us and to make sure adequate Bible instruction as well as a unity in our beliefs is present prior to communing together. The main reasons why we do this are these:

  • We want to protect souls who might do damage to themselves since the Lord’s Supper is for believers who are not only baptized but also instructed and knowledgeable about what they receive in the sacrament and why.
  • We want to protect souls since those who commune are to examine themselves prior to communing, so we want to be sure those who commune with us have been trained how to do this and possess the level of understanding and maturity to make it meaningful.
  • We want to protect souls and show integrity as we publicly confess Bible truths since all who commune together are expressing unity in the Christian faith and in their allegience to the Bible. We want this expression to be genuine and not a sham or hypocritical pretending we have unity if indeed we don’t.
So we want to speak with potential communicants when we are not sure about their preparation to receive the sacrament.
Thank you for the correction.
 
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Sorry about my Post #3. I had not noticed the poll, and was responding only to Posts #1 and #2.
That said, the poll apparently lists only very conservative Lutheran bodies that need some explaining to identify them. And if they're that small, they're probably not relevant to visit, too few locations.
Luckily, I live in the upper Midwest and am within a reasonable drive from all of these churches. There is not and LCR church in my area, but there is one in my hometown that I visit often. To help you and others I will identify them.
WELS/ ELS Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod/ Evangelical Lutheran Synod
CLC Church of the Lutheran Confession
LCR Lutheran Churches of the Reformation
ELDONA Evangelical Lutheran Diocese of North American
OALC/LLC Old Apostolic Lutheran Church/ Laestadian Lutheran Church
OLCC Orthodox Lutheran Confessional Conference
Thank you everyone for your replies!
 
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Korah

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No takers? I'll interlope.
Among Lutherans "conservative" can range to quite strict, and that's what we're talking about with little-known denominations next to bigger WELS and LCMS.
1. Literal Bible including 6-day Creation.
2. Literal on Paul including no women bishops. Nor priests. Nor deacons, electors, basically nothing of any authority except over children.
3. Literal on the Book of Concord. The Pope is the Antichrist.
4. Literal on Communion, restricting admission. Closed Communion toward other denominations, or even towards other conservative Lutherans, or even towards members of another congregation in the same denomination.
5. Literal on the Creeds. Athanasian Creed interpreted more and more narrowly as to who is saved. Catholics (Christians) only? Protestants only (no Roman Catholics)? Evangelicals (conservative Protestants) only? Lutherans only? Conservative Lutherans only? Own Lutheran body only?
 
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I probably would join WELS, but they seem to have taken UOJ too far in recent years. Does anyone here know the LCR or CLC positions on this issue.
No takers? I'll interlope.

5. Literal on the Creeds. Athanasian Creed interpreted more and more narrowly as to who is saved. Catholics (Christians) only? Protestants only (no Roman Catholics)? Evangelicals (conservative Protestants) only? Lutherans only? Conservative Lutherans only? Own Lutheran body only?
Are there any Lutherans this exclusive outside of Laestadianism?
 
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Thanks for your informative Post #9, but on this latest what is "UOJ"?
It stands for Universal Objective Justification. It basically means everyone is at least partially justified before having faith. SOME WELS pastors have taken it too far by saying everyone is justified and forgiven before having faith and having faith only allows you to have the rewards of forgiveness instead of giving you forgiveness and the rewards. On the other hand, the ELDONA completely denies UOJ altogether. I find myself in the middle not veering too strong either way.
 
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twin.spin

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Concerning the Universal Objective Justification:
John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!"

2 Corinthians 5:19
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them.

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Matthew 20:28
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.

Isaiah 53:6
... the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Universal Objective Justification is the truth in context. Jesus paid for the sins of the world, not for a select few.




 
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The doctrine of Justification is the central doctrine of the Christian faith. It declares that a man is justified by faith in the forgiveness of sins which Jesus has accomplished by His death upon the cross, in payment for the sins of the world. A man is received into grace when he believes that His sins are forgiven for the sake of Christ, entirely apart from his own strength, merits, or works. God counts this faith as righteousness. (Rom. 3:28; 4:5; Gal. 2:16; Eph. 2:8,9; AC IV).

Implicit in this definition of Justification are two acts of God which we have come to call Objective and Subjective Justification. Justification cannot be properly understood without considering both of these divine declarations.

Objective Justification teaches that Christ has atoned not only for the sins of the elect, but for the sins of the whole world, and that He has not only accomplished this atonement but has also declared, by His resurrection from the dead, that the Father is reconciled with the entire world. Thus Objective Justification is nothing less than God’s declaration to the whole world of the forgiveness of sins which Christ accomplished upon the cross.

Subjective Justification teaches that when a man believes this, God formally counts this faith as righteousness, joins him to Christ, and makes him a partaker of eternal life.

In this way, Justification encompasses the Atonement of Christ and God’s response to that atonement in declaring the forgiveness of sins to the world. This forgiveness he then delivers to men by declaring it through the means of grace, which creates the faith by which man lays hold of this divine promise, and by faith is counted righteous by God. Without God declaring the world righteous, the atonement of Christ is ever outside the reach of man and cannot help him. Without the means of grace, God’s declaration is not applied to the individual. Without faith in that declaration, a man is still in His sin, a child or wrath, and destined for hell.

That Objective Justification is part of Justification may be seen in Rom. 5:12: “Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.” Also in 2 Cor. 5:19: “God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them.”

The Subjective and Objective acts of Justification are also implicit in article IV of the Augsburg Confession which declares: “Men … are freely justified for Christ’s sake, through faith, when they believe that they are received into favor, and that their sins are forgiven for Christ’s sake, who, by His death, has made satisfaction for our sins. This faith God imputes for righteousness in His sight.” Here Justification is described as a man believing that his “sins are forgiven for Christ’s sake.” In this way that which faith believes is already true before faith believes it. Yet it is only this faith that is counted as righteousness.

Without this faith, a man is not counted as righteous, and all his sins are held against him. Therefore we reject all formulations of justification which deny that God holds the sins of unbelievers against them. Rather unbelievers remain in a state of wrath. We further reject all formulations of justification which declare that the only sin that damns is the sin of unbelief.
http://www.olcc.us/articles/objective-justification/
I think this article describes it very well and accurately.
 
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twin.spin

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The WELS does not deviate from what scriptures teach as to the regarding of objective \ subjective justification as explained in the statement of faith http://wels.net/about-wels/what-we-believe/this-we-believe/christ-and-redemption/

point #3-5:
3. We believe that Jesus Christ, the God-man, was sent by the Father to redeem all people, that is, to buy them back from the guilt and punishment of sin. Jesus came to fulfill the law (Matthew 5:17) so that on the basis of his perfect obedience all people would be declared holy (Romans 5:18,19). He came to bear “the iniquity of us all” (Isaiah 53:6), ransoming all people by his sacrifice for sin on the altar of the cross (Matthew 20:28). We believe that he is the God-appointed substitute for all people. His righteousness, or perfect obedience, is accepted by the Father as our righteousness, his death for sin as our death for sin (2 Corinthians 5:21). We believe that his resurrection gives full assurance that God has accepted the payment he made for all (Romans 4:25).

4. We believe that God reconciled “the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them” (2 Corinthians 5:19). We believe that Jesus is “the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world” (John 1:29). The mercy and grace of God are all-embracing; the reconciliation through Christ is universal; the forgiveness of sins has been gained as an accomplished fact for all people. Because of the substitutionary work of Christ, God has justified all people, that is, God has declared them to be not guilty. This forms the firm, objective basis for the sinner’s assurance of salvation.

5. We reject any teaching that in any way limits Christ’s work of atonement. We reject any teaching that says Christ paid the penalty only for the sins of some people. We reject any teaching that says Christ made only a partial payment for sins.

If you have specific WELS pastors that you have knowledge of that you feel have taken it too far other than "some", then do speak to such directly to clarify their position, they'd be more than happy to clear up any misunderstandings.


Such an approach is the Godly way of doing things other than give the impression \ innuendo of the WELS harboring false teaching by "some" pastors.
 
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The WELS does not deviate from what scriptures teach as to the regarding of objective \ subjective justification as explained in the statement of faith http://wels.net/about-wels/what-we-believe/this-we-believe/christ-and-redemption/

point #3-5:
3. We believe that Jesus Christ, the God-man, was sent by the Father to redeem all people, that is, to buy them back from the guilt and punishment of sin. Jesus came to fulfill the law (Matthew 5:17) so that on the basis of his perfect obedience all people would be declared holy (Romans 5:18,19). He came to bear “the iniquity of us all” (Isaiah 53:6), ransoming all people by his sacrifice for sin on the altar of the cross (Matthew 20:28). We believe that he is the God-appointed substitute for all people. His righteousness, or perfect obedience, is accepted by the Father as our righteousness, his death for sin as our death for sin (2 Corinthians 5:21). We believe that his resurrection gives full assurance that God has accepted the payment he made for all (Romans 4:25).

4. We believe that God reconciled “the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them” (2 Corinthians 5:19). We believe that Jesus is “the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world” (John 1:29). The mercy and grace of God are all-embracing; the reconciliation through Christ is universal; the forgiveness of sins has been gained as an accomplished fact for all people. Because of the substitutionary work of Christ, God has justified all people, that is, God has declared them to be not guilty. This forms the firm, objective basis for the sinner’s assurance of salvation.

5. We reject any teaching that in any way limits Christ’s work of atonement. We reject any teaching that says Christ paid the penalty only for the sins of some people. We reject any teaching that says Christ made only a partial payment for sins.

If you have specific WELS pastors that you have knowledge of that you feel have taken it too far other than "some", then do speak to such directly to clarify their position, they'd be more than happy to clear up any misunderstandings.


Such an approach is the Godly way of doing things other than give the impression \ innuendo of the WELS harboring false teaching by "some" pastors.
That response from WELS seems very biblical. I believe some blogs I have read very misrepresent the WELS position. What the blogs said WELS believed seems very different than what is actually taught. I apologize for not looking further into it.
 
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