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What is the Mark of the Beast?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Catchup, Apr 21, 2002.

What is the mark of the beast ?

  1. a spiritual mark

  2. a physical mark

  3. both a spiritual and physical mark

  4. nothing at all

Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. coastie

    coastie Hallelujah Adonai Yeshua!

    +45
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Maranatha...

    Yes the technology has existed for about 6 years. This "bar conde" has been considered for use in federal pens as well as in the military.

    Our dogs have it now. Does that mean that they can't go to heaven? :D

    Seriously though. I see your point, we have the technology, only the implementation is the next step.
     
  2. Hoonbaba

    Hoonbaba Catholic Preterist

    +54
    Catholic
    Hi Catchup,

    I don't have much time right now but I do believe it would be a spiritual mark. I think it would be spiritual whether you're a futurist or a preterist.

    Anyway, Rev 22:15 speaks of evildoers ourside the 'city'. I look at this city as the heavenly jerusalem as depicted in Heb 12:22 referring to the kingdom of God, and the New Jerusalem mentioned in Rev 3:12 and Rev 21:2. Gal 4:26 also speaks of the Jerusalem from above. By the way, Gal 4:21-31 speaks about 2 different Jerusalems :)

    I believe that Rev 22:17 is the gospel message:

    The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.

    So basically people will continue to get saved. In fact I'm sure many of us brought people (as described in Rev 22:15) into the kingdom because of the gospel message (Rev 22:17)

    Ok that answered one of your questions. :)

    hehe I don't have time for the others. I'm sure someone else can go at it. But right now I have to get going.

    God bless!
     
  3. Hoonbaba

    Hoonbaba Catholic Preterist

    +54
    Catholic
    I just realized it didn't answer anything LOL!

    God bless! =)

    -Jason
     
  4. Catchup

    Catchup Active Member

    917
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    Private
    I am still waiting for the Christian with the preterist views. I have even gone as far as to chase GW down on another thread where she was complaining that we did not want to allow her to post.I asked her to please come and explain the "Mark of the Beast". But still she has not posted on this "End of Times" thread. The others who have showed up gave totally inadequate answers. They seem to be shying away from the truth.

    OK>>>So Here is where I am with my Thinking!:scratch:

    If part of your analogy is flawed...Then it is all flawed!

    The Bible is the word of God...
    God does not speak in half/truths.

    Your Friend in Christ
    :) LOVE
     
  5. RKF

    RKF Member

    408
    +0
    I believe that the micro chip is a prelude to the mark, Yes it is physical but it has to be in line with the worshipping of the beast, Or denying Jesus. God says that you can't have two masters. So if your not with him then your against him.

    The mark of God is the Holy Ghost! Thank God for his Spirit the dwells with in me!
     
  6. Debbie

    Debbie Active Member

    504
    +0
    Amen Catchup. Preterists cannot explain the mark of the beast being required to buy or sell anything, as scripture indicates. This is only one flaw of preterist viewpoint, but as you said, it proves the view itself is flawed.
    How was it in the past that the grocery store, market, bank, merchant, peddler, money changers, etc, could tell that you had the number of the beast (666) on your hand or forehead? They can't sell to you if you dont have the mark, so how do they notice if you have the mark 666?
    You can't buy a loaf of bread with a spiritual mark. If I can purchase items with a spiritual mark, then I want to buy a mansion, a new boat, & new car.
    The things of heaven are spiritual, the things of this world are physical. God's mark may be spiritual, but satan's mark is of this world.
    Catchup you won't get an answer from a preterist, they cant answer it.
    Preterists cannot explain how, in the past, people bought a loaf of bread with a spiritual mark of the beast .
     
  7. Wildfire

    Wildfire Member

    454
    +1
    HI Catchup, I may have a different than others but I would like to answer your proposed question. I happen to notice a lot of things, and maybe that means something, again, maybe not.
    The other day, when that small plane hit the building in Milan, does anyone know what happened, immediately afterwards? Its stock plummeted.
    There is a widespread <fear> around the world of major companies being "targeted" or "singled out" by terrorists.

    What does that fear equal= CONTROL.

    Is this the beginning of something; I think it is. Do I think the mark is spiritual, I sure do. Just like I am beginning to believe it is the Mark of Cain, who slew Abel. And all of his seed, is still in this world.
    Wildfire
     
  8. Catchup

    Catchup Active Member

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    Wildfire: I would be happy to believe that the mark is merely Spiritual. Nothing can ever take the place of the Holy Spirit within my soul. But there are verses that say people will be forced to take the mark in order to buy and sell. How can it then be only spiritual? What people do not understand is life is lived in two realms both physically and spiritually. One does not rule out the other. This then brings up thoughts of a New World Order and a way of identifying people through micro implants. Would you accept such an implant?

    I appreciate that you are keeping your eyes an ears open.

    :) LOVE
     
  9. Wildfire

    Wildfire Member

    454
    +1
    Hi catchup; I do not interpret the mark as being "forced" but rather seduced; either by fear or idolizing what the beast symbolizes.
    Lets look at the verse:

    And he <<causeth>> all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to recieve a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheards.
    That no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

    Buy or sell.

    The verse doesn't say what is bought or sold.

    Quick question; what is bought and sold in the world today?

    :)

    Now, leading up to these two verses we are shown how the beast is formed, and how the world marvels after it:

    And they <worshipped> the dragon (satan) that gave power unto the beast: and they <worshipped> the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

    Very important piece of information. This "beast" is seen by the world, as something or someone that cannot be defeated.
    Sounds sneaky to me.
    We are told (jumping back to the NT) how <many> will be offended, and betray one another and hate one another.
    And that those who seek to save their lives, shall lose it.

    To me, it is all tied together.

    And $$$$$$$ will be the heart of it.

    Wildfire
     
  10. Catchup

    Catchup Active Member

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    I declare this an open thread for futurist!!!!!! :clap:

    The preterist have been swept clean! They will not enter. Not even when I chase them down and invite them over!!! :D

    You see with-in this thread lies a hole in their false teachings ... big enough to swallow them if they enter! :eek:

    So come and talk about what ever you like. The thread has done its purpose. :angel:


    :) LOVE
     
  11. kern

    kern Miserere Nobis

    +7
    Catholic
    Why would the mark be a bar code or microchip? Revelation says that the mark has the number of the beast on it, but bar codes and microchips used to track people (or for whatever purpose) would have a different number for each person by definition. (Unless you think that somehow 666 will get on every chip and bar code, but I think enough US people are familiar with 666 that they're not going to do that)

    -Chris
     
  12. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
    The Mark
    http://mb.notdeceived.net/topic.cgi?forum=21&topic=200




    There are two identifiable "marks" in Revelation.

    The sealing of the 144,000 jews is accomplished by a mark in the forehead in parallel fashion to the MARK of the beast in the forehead. (see Rev. 9:4 and Rev. 7:2-8 and Rev 14:1). (NOTE: futurists are never consistent on this: if one is physical-literal then shouldn't both MARKS should be seen as physical-literal? Yet just ask a futurist who is the "computer chip manufacturer" today who is producing the "Mark of God," and they have no answer. However, they could speculate all day and night on which technology company is in cahoots with satan to produce his computer implant. I propose that Bill Gates is working on the "Mark-of-God chip implant" for the 144,000. :) )


    John didn't have computer chips in mind at all when he wrote the passage. Rather, as in so many other parts of Revelation, he was quoting the Old Testament. The following passages should be carefully examined when discussing "the mark on the forehead or hand" that marks people for doom or salvation:

    Ez. Chapter 9 -- angels mark people for God's destruction of Jerusalem in 6th Century B.C.

    Deut 6:8, Deut 11:18, Exodus 13:9 -- God's marks commanded to be upon the head and hands of his people to show their faithfulness

    John's notions in his vision are related to Old Testament concepts -- not modern day conjectures that the MARK of the beast is to be thought of as a some computer product.



    CORRELATING EVENTS IN JOHN'S TIME:

    William Barclay's generic comments on The Mark:

    * On every contract of buying or selling there was a charagma, a seal, and on the seal the name of the emperor and the date. If the mark is connected with this, it means that those who worship the beast accept his authority. Note: this could also be the seal of ownership.

    * All coinage had the head and inscription of the emperor stamped upon it, to show that it was his property [coins read: "Caesar is God"]. If the mark is connected with this, it means that those who bear it are the property of the beast.

    * When a man had burned his pinch of incense to Caesar, he was given a certificate to say he had done so. The mark of the beast may be the certificate of worship which a Christian could obtain only at the cost of denying his faith.


    --------------------
    Enforced Emperor Worship:

    The Imperial-Cult worship of the Emperor as Lord was enforced throughout the entire empire. Roman officers governed this practice to make sure everyone was abiding by the law -- when one offered sacrifices to Caesar compliance certificates were issued that you had worshipped the Emperor. These certificates allowed business as usual within the Roman system. Failure to comply was an act of War against the Roman State.

    -----------------------
    DAVID CHILTON:

    The Jewish Leaders organized economic boycotts against those who refused to submit to Caesar as Lord, the leaders of the synagogues "forbidding all dealings with the excommunicated," and going so far as to put them to death.

    ---------------------
    6-6-6: The Number of the Existing Caesar

    The Hebrew form of "Caesar Nero" is Nrwn Qsr (pronounced "Neron Kaiser"). The value of the seven Hebrew letters is 50, 200, 6, 50, 100, 60, and 200, respectively.
     
  13. GW

    GW Veteran

    +59
    Christian
  14. davo

    davo Member

    471
    +3
    FYI:

    As an aside: the word translated "mark" in Ez 9:4 is in its shortest simplest form and is found nowhere else in the Scriptures in this form. It is the 'mark of the TAW.'

    The "Taw" is the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet and in its ancient form was written as "X". In Job 31:35 the derivative form of TAW ="signature". As in "put your mark here".

    The significance of the mark "X" would not have been lost on the early church as "X" is the first letter in the Greek word for "Christ". Being "marked" in Christ meant protection and deliverance i.e., salvation -Rev 7:3, 9:4, 14:1, 22:4.

    Also, many Roman crosses were "X" in shape. So if you will -those that are saved are marked with the mark of Christ -the Cross.

    "X" marks the spot.

    davo
     
  15. Catchup

    Catchup Active Member

    917
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    Kern: The bar code already contains 666. There are three safe zones in a bar code. They used the same bar to mark the safe codes as the letter 6. So every bar code before it is printed with individual information has only the three safe zones or 666.The manufacture claims it was nothing sinister...just a coincidence. :eek:

    This site explains it in detail...

    http://www.av1611.org/666/barcode.htmlBarcode 666

    :) LOVE
     
  16. NumberOneSon

    NumberOneSon The poster formerly known as Acts6:5

    +231
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    Married
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    The first Bible study on Revelation I participated in was taught by a teacher that believed the bar code contains the mark. I have always been puzzled by it. Why isn't it evil for us to simply buy and sell using the mark of the beast on products or by using credit cards? Why is having the mark on our body any less evil then using the mark in our day to day affairs? If it is the bar code, why is it damning for people to have the mark, but not to use the mark?

    In Christ,

    Acts6:5
     
  17. kern

    kern Miserere Nobis

    +7
    Catholic
    I knew someone was going to post this. Two points about this:

    1. The guard bars are not the same as tthe "6" bar code, they just look similar.
    2. Even if they were, isn't the mark supposed to be for people, not products?

    http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/barcode.htm

    -Chris
     
  18. MARANATHA2002

    MARANATHA2002 Member

    149
    +0
    If my understanding is correct. According to NAFTA and GATT agreements, all imported or exported consumer goods must have a scan-able barcode. The barcode contains all the encoded information about the product. In accord with the above agreements, it is against international law to sell any consumer-able product, wholesale or retail without a barcode, and if I am not mistaken, these barcodes have to be registered. If you are trying to introduce a product into the market place (I have a family member that has several products on the market) you have to get a barcode for your product to sell in the retail establishments. So in a since, all products wholesale and retail, have been given a mark so they can be bought and sold. The next step, of course is the requirement for some type of scan-able mark to be placed on the consumer, to qualify for purchasing or selling consumer products. Peace, but not yet.
     
  19. kern

    kern Miserere Nobis

    +7
    Catholic
    This doesn't follow at all. How do bar codes on products lead to bar codes on humans? I think people are reaching a bit with this one.



    -Chris
     
  20. Debbie

    Debbie Active Member

    504
    +0
    About 20 years ago I was in a national grocery store and overheard the owner discussing with the manager , a meeting he attended.
    The national topic had been bad checks. This was before bar codes & scanners at the check out line. They said that an invisible mark would be required on the hands, equalling someone's bank account. It could be seen at the check out line with a black light they said, & find out right then if the $ was in the account.
    For old people & children, because of their skin type, the mark would have to go on their forehead they said.
    This freaked me out. It didnt come to pass as discussed at their national convention, but the scanners & debit card machines at check out lines came to pass. One step further & we r there.
    God's mark has always been spiritual, but He could physically mark us all if He chose to.
     
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