What is the main obstacle to gaining Christian faith?

[Halbhh]

I can't just believe without anything...and I doubt others can either. Did you just wake up and decide to believe, and were able then to do so, or did you have some evidence or reason? If I declare that I believe, does that make it true? How do I know to choose the Christian God, instead of, say Odin, if I have to do it without any evidence?
These kinds of threads are very frustrating for those truly struggling to believe. There seems to be a theme that true belief happens only in the absence of evidence and seeking reasons or evidence to believe is somehow prideful. Yet, I can't imagine that someone who believes in God has just no evidence that the God they believe in actually exists. Instead of sharing their reasons, they'd rather shame someone for asking the question.

Just like me then.

There is a way for you. ... (And it's definitely not the 'ark encounter'. It's His way instead. The way Christ laid out

Christ said the way --

7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened." (Matt 7)

If you seek with all of your heart --

13 "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14 "I will be found by you,” declares the Lord.... (Jer 29)


And this works. I know it. First hand. If you take the leap of faith to seek God with all of your heart, you will find Him. I prayed "God, make a way from me to you. Bring me to you." I thought that God existing He would surely answer this prayer, and I was able to take a leap of faith and pray it with real belief for a moment.

And He did, in a way I could not intellectualize away.

 

[Mountainmike]

I am not knocking what you said, indeed I love and say padre pios novena which is based on those very verses you quote.

But perhaps the response is John 20:29 " Jesus told him, ... blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." Such people are truly fortunate.
Your reasoning rather presupposes you already accept the bible, to accept the logic. Is very circular! It is a bit like using the salesmans literature to decide whether a product is any good or works! There needs to be evidence beyond that for rational minds.

The problem for geeks ( I know , I am one!) and I suspect mountain girl, is they are trained to discount anything that does not have tangible evidence: and as you know there is an entire industry (which is a fair description considering how much the authors make out of it!) persuading people that science denies God, which is certainly not true, but also claims there is no evidence.

So evidence matters for people like us.
Evidence that science cannot explain it all.
Evidence that the current "life is a biochemical accident" paradigm is not sufficient
Evidence that there are unnatural things, hard to discount by science, that have theistic overtones.


As I said, I am fortunate that I also have a supernatural element to my faith. I never lost the deep down belief there had to be something more, however well buried it was. But I also needed to reconcile my scientific rationality with my faith in a way that did not give cognitive dissonance!

Just like me then.

There is a way for you. ... (And it's definitely not the 'ark encounter'. It's His way instead. The way Christ laid out

Christ said the way --

7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened." (Matt 7)

If you seek with all of your heart --

13 "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14 "I will be found by you,” declares the Lord.... (Jer 29)


And this works. I know it. First hand. If you take the leap of faith to seek God with all of your heart, you will find Him. I prayed "God, make a way from me to you. Bring me to you." I thought that God existing He would surely answer this prayer, and I was able to take a leap of faith and pray it with real belief for a moment.

And He did, in a way I could not intellectualize away.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

Maybe evidence isn't the best word because some take it to mean some sort of scientific evidence, something measurable, repeatable, impersonal, etc..
Perhaps instead of lack if evidence, a better example is lack of reason to believe. I expect everyone who believes has a reason (answered prayers, sense of a presence of God, maybe a supernatural experience...instead of or in addition to what might be more narrowly considered evidence)
No matter whether or not you have evidence of God, a believer likely will have a reason to believe. I'm just lumping these in as evidence.
For instance, you say we all need God. Perhaps you've seen evidence of that in your life or others.
If believers could articulate the reasons they believe, and/or the evidence they have to support their belief, perhaps that would be a more productive way to go about these. Belief, in my opinion, is the state that requires a reason, disbelief or doubt is more of the default state. People doubt because they haven't found their reason yet.

Have you read the book Silence by Shusako Endo? It is about the persecution of Christians in Japan under the Tokugawa Shogunate and about a priest who is captured and apostatises. Throughout the book he bemoans the Silence of God, while His people struggle. In the end he realises God was never silent, He was suffering with them.

A related concept is the idea of God sustaining existence. Why do things follow certain patterns, certain 'laws'. Now law here actually only means what things in fact do, not in the human sense, but why does water flow downhill, do high concentrations move to low concentrations, etc. God is not absent, but the cause behind, so that the reason grapes becomes wine is God, even though the process may be fermentation. This is similar in that the 'silence' of God actually is not this at all. Methodologic terms do not answer the ontological question, unless you deny the question in entirety. This is not empiricism, but Empiricism has only recently become seen as the be all and end all, and has already fallen by the wayside in Theoretical Physics with its speculations.

There is a reason that Faith is a virtue. The mind of man is finite and to think that we can exclude concepts beyond what is observable, is not only philosophically unsound, but hubris. I fully understand where you are coming from, but if you follow such scepticism to its core, you end up eradicating all human knowledge, all certainty, and even our grounds for scepticism. A line in the sand needs to be drawn, and axiomatic truths have to be assumed, whether these are the reliability of our sense-data or qualia, consistency of existence, or God, matters not. Which base axioms we assume determine whether we fall to our knees before the creator or not, in a word faith in something, and not really something as dubious and untrustworthy as evidence or 'proofs' in either case. For evidence is determined by the base axiom, and not the other way around.

 

[Halbhh]

I am not knocking what you said, indeed I love and say padre pios novena which is based on those very verses you quote.

But perhaps the response is John 20:29 " Jesus told him, ... blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." Such people are truly fortunate.
Your reasoning rather presupposes you already accept the bible, to accept the logic. Is very circular! It is a bit like using the salesmans literature to decide whether a product is any good or works! There needs to be evidence beyond that for rational minds.

The problem for geeks ( I know , I am one!) and I suspect mountain girl, is they are trained to discount anything that does not have tangible evidence: and as you know there is an entire industry (which is a fair description considering how much the authors make out of it!) persuading people that science denies God, which is certainly not true, but also claims there is no evidence.

So evidence matters for people like us.
Evidence that science cannot explain it all.
Evidence that the current "life is a biochemical accident" paradigm is not sufficient
Evidence that there are unnatural things, hard to discount by science, that have theistic overtones.


As I said, I am fortunate that I also have a supernatural element to my faith. I never lost the deep down belief there had to be something more, however well buried it was. But I also needed to reconcile my scientific rationality with my faith in a way that did not give cognitive dissonance!

Right! I had evidence before that moment.


I had specifically put some of Christ's surprising ideas (as I thought of them) to experimental test.

I'm serious. My degree is in the hard sciences.

I tested several, even the crazy sounding "love your enemy".

Even that one. I was thinking it would probably not work.

Boy was in for a surprise.

It worked in an amazing way.

I was truly amazed by that result.

Hard evidence suggesting to me that more of what He said could be true also.... so, more testing followed.

I tested most everything I could, any way I could think of. Results -- it all worked. That really made me pause. I thought of myself as atheist, but now I had to become agnostic, and read more of what He had said in the accounts.

 

[GandalfTheWise]

I can't just believe without anything...and I doubt others can either. Did you just wake up and decide to believe, and were able then to do so, or did you have some evidence or reason? If I declare that I believe, does that make it true? How do I know to choose the Christian God, instead of, say Odin, if I have to do it without any evidence?
These kinds of threads are very frustrating for those truly struggling to believe. There seems to be a theme that true belief happens only in the absence of evidence and seeking reasons or evidence to believe is somehow prideful. Yet, I can't imagine that someone who believes in God has just no evidence that the God they believe in actually exists. Instead of sharing their reasons, they'd rather shame someone for asking the question.

You mean being told to read the Bible and repent and believe doesn't do it for you? (Please note the body language accompanying this is a grin and small laugh at the effectiveness of the advice, not a scowl at you.)

I have a PhD in Physics. For me, the primary basis of my faith is experiential, not abstract. I've observed and experienced things that seem to go beyond what my rational training would expect. Is this just simply anything beyond my understanding getting lumped under the category "magic" or "god"? Or is logic and the scientific method a great way for studying only one aspect of all that exists and falls short of explaining other aspects of what exists? For me, I have a few fixed points (inexactly borrowing the idea of points that don't change under various transformations) that seem to remain relatively constant no matter what my feelings are or how I think about things. These are events that I have observed that I simply cannot adequately rationally explain.

As an aside, there are two ways that the word faith is used by different people. 1. The first way is that faith is trust in God as a person based on what He has actually done. That is, He really exists and does real things in the world. This is a use of the word that indicates confidence based on past experience of real events. 2. The second way is that the word is used for its emotional connotation of some type of emotional experience or not-rational belief or feeling. It's based on the idea that we have no tangible evidence to prove God exists (or possibly that God, if He does exist, does not do miracles or interact with the world), so we will believe it anyway because it makes us feel better and gives us some sort of sense of meaning and purpose. The two different uses seem to be mutually exclusive between different groups of people. When someone is talking about "faith", I've made it a habit to mentally orient myself whether they think of faith as something rooted in fact or as a personal subjective leap of non-rationality to give some type of meaning to life in the absence of any evidence.

For those who use the word faith in an objective way, it is important that an event such as the resurrection of Jesus is a real historical event. For those who use the word faith in a subjective way, the important thing is whether or not the story of Jesus' resurrection somehow inspires you and makes your life better. This can be a challenge when reading books or other things explaining why someone should be a Christian. One group talks about God as real and doing real things and wanting to have an actual relationship with us. The other group talks about God as an abstract notion sort of like Santa or the Easter Bunny that gives us warm fuzzies and makes us feel better in some way. The challenge is that they use the same exact words and mean very different things.

Speaking for myself, I grew up in church and sort of believed God was there. I honestly never really thought about it much. One of the first "fixed points" occurred during a Lent service when I was 12. In interest of terseness, I'll leave out most details. I was bored and squirming and can't remember much of the service. But, at one point, my attention was fixed on a question the speaker asked, "so, how do you know you'll go the heaven?" It was like at that point I squarely faced the question of existence of "does God really exist or do I just sort of hope He does?" as well as the question, "so what is my actual relationship to Him?" I honestly didn't know and went up to talk to the speaker afterwards. He just led me in a simple prayer. I don't recall it exactly, but just something like, "God please forgive me and come into my life." At that instant, I felt different. Now, I'm sure I'd said words like that during many a liturgy or responsive reading before, so it wasn't the words that were important. But, it was like I suddenly felt a warm presence inside me. There were no wild emotions or anything weird going on. A simple calm conversation (that I now no longer remember) and couple words and I wasn't really expecting anything. It was just like all of a sudden I felt like I was in contact with another world. Throughout my life, that warm sense has remained.

Another fixed point was when I was in my 30s. I'd always had phobias (especially spiders and heights). I was at a church service where the speaker asked for people to come up for prayer if they wanted it. I really didn't have anything particular in mind, but just had this compelling sense that I was supposed to. He went along praying for people (spending quite a bit of time and rather loudly praying for them too). He came to me, put his hand on my head, said about a 10 or 15 second prayer (that seemed pretty generic to me and I cannot even recall it), and went on to the next person. But, something instantly changed in me. Those phobias pretty much went away. I hadn't even been thinking about them during the service. That morning, I had been in the shower and had a unwelcome 8 legged visitor that I managed to slay with much frantic motion with a shampoo bottle and then left in the shower because I didn't want to touch it. I went home, went into the bathroom, picked it up with my bare hands and tossed it in the waste basket. The next time we went to visit a friend that worked in a two story department store, I went up the escalator and walked around the edge of the upper floor with no qualms. No working myself up to it or fighting fears the whole way, I just hopped on the escalator like most people do and rode it up. I still have a few twinges with huge spiders unexpectedly showing up or and a bit of disorientation and vertigo at extremely high drop offs with expansive views without reference points, but not to the point of being almost debilitating in common buildings.

I could add a few more fixed points related to answered prayers and other things, but this post is getting rather long already.

From what I can tell, what I describe as a "warm presence" inside me is similar to what many other people describe. It's simply this sense that, whoa, something is there that wasn't there before. For many of us, it just happened without knowing what to expect. For me, I just repeated a prayer that someone told me to say and I suddenly felt different. No expectations that anything was going to happen, it just did.

There are times I think about life, ponder existence, wonder if all that stuff I've attributed to "God" over the years was just a bunch of coincidences or psychological phenomena of some sort, much like the subjective interpretation of faith being something we just sort of grab onto emotionally to deal with life. But, as I reflect onto those fixed points, I'm left with a sense of, I simply cannot rationally explain those things away. Phobias don't just vanish without some type of change in the brain. I had a shoulder injury (that gave all the signs of torn ligaments and bad stuff that the doctor said might require surgical intervention) that simply healed up over a few months and has been fine since. I've seen prayers answered that seemed to stretch the bounds of coincidence. I was in a car that simply changed trajectory to avoid an accident in a way I cannot explain as a physicist. There've been other things as well.

Bottom line, my first step of "faith" was really just doing what someone else said to do, repeat a short prayer after them. After that, I started to see more things that seemed to be objective real events that are difficult to rationally explain.

 

[he-man]

The Bible is pretty clear about what keeps men from faith in Christ:

John 3:19-20
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

At bottom, no one likes to be told what they've done is evil and that they must account for their evil one day. And so, they erect all manner of "intellectual arguments" to justify not bowing the knee to their Maker.

Jeremiah 17:9
9 "The heart is deceitful above all things, And desperately wicked; Who can know it?

The human heart is fundamentally and profoundly wicked. It is this deep and natural depravity that provokes men away from God.

Ephesians 2:1-3
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

The lost cannot move toward God on their own. They are "dead in trespasses and sins" and utterly unable to take any initiative toward God as a consequence. They are bound under the influence of devil, the "prince of the power of the air,"and caught in the grip of their own fleshly corruption. So it is that Jesus said, "No man can come unto me except the Father draw him..." (Jn. 6:44)

Christians should avoid speculative extrapolations from Bible doctrine and the introduction of foreign ideas to it, both of which can lead to error and stick with the descriptive accounts of God and Christ found in the Bible.,Sir Isaac Newton believed that the Bible does not teach a literal personal dvil or literal personal demons. SSatna is a personification of the evil inclination within the human heart.

 

[GandalfTheWise]

How do I know to choose the Christian God, instead of, say Odin, if I have to do it without any evidence?

I realized one thing I didn't hit on was why Christianity instead of general monotheism or something else. I'm not sure how clearly I'll explain this below, but I'll try to lay out my thinking in a few paragraphs.

From what I can tell, Christianity seems to have a few very unique features. One of those is the idea of God being an infinite-personal God. (Borrowing from Francis Schaeffer there.). As far as I can tell, Christianity is unique in that God is both the transcendent Creator (with whom we have as much in common with as a rock or grain of sand or molecule or ant does) AND a personal God that we can have some type of significant relationship with. I think most Christians miss the significance of the doctrine of the Trinity. The way I think of this is that we as humans have a two-fold relationship with God. We are simultaneously "dust of the earth" like any other part of creation and we are "made in the image of God" which gives us a way of meaningfully interacting with God. As "dust of the earth", we can only see the one transcendent Creator that we have nothing in common with. As "made in the image of God", our decisions and interactions as individuals affect how the Persons of a personal God interact with us. For me, the doctrine of the Trinity is an expression that we as "dust" and "image of God" relate to God in two seemingly contradictory ways. At the risk of attracting the lightning of a centuries old debate, my opinion is that Christianity is unique in saying that both "fate" and "free will" exist independently of the other. Our "dust" side is completely subject to the sovereignty of the one Creator, and our "image of God" side has volition and will that affect how we interact with the personal God. (I do acknowledge that many Christians will vigorously disagree with the previous statements and say that it is one or the other.)

For me, one of the greatest questions of life is how a bunch of self-aware molecules can have any meaning beyond simple existence. To me, meaning is something that has to have a basis in something outside the physical and temporal, and in the eternal and transcendent. Christianity's infinite-personal God creating us as both "dust" and "image of God" means that we are both a bunch of self-aware molecules AND (in some sense not physically knowable) an individual who's volition and will and uniqueness can have an existence and reach of some type beyond a span of physical existence. As far as I understand, Christianity stands alone in acknowledging both human finiteness and yet having the capability for some type of transcendent relationship with God as an individual human.

A second unique feature of Christianity is the idea of the incarnation of Christ, God coming to earth as a human being. Instead of humans trying to reach out to somehow touch the untouchable or see the unseeable Creator, the personal God reaches out to His creation, those who He made in the image of God. There is basically no way for humans to reach into the transcendent existence of God and touch Him in any way. However, in Judaism and Christianity, we have God the Creator reaching out to His creation and making Himself known. In Christianity, we have God coming to live as a human being. Unique (as far as I understand) in Christianity, is the idea that the Creator reaches out to each and every human being apart from individual merit.

A third unique feature of Christianity is the idea of the resurrection of Jesus AND His sending the Holy Spirit to live inside human beings. This is the idea that God Himself in some way comes to live inside of us. This is how I understand the "warm presence" inside me that I described in my previous post. It is that somehow, God (in some way that I don't claim to understand) is inside me.

Anyway, this is part of my thought process as to why Christianity seems unique and seems to match what I've observed in my life.

 

[aiki]

Christians should avoid speculative extrapolations from Bible doctrine and the introduction of foreign ideas to it, both of which can lead to error and stick with the descriptive accounts of God and Christ found in the Bible.,Sir Isaac Newton believed that the Bible does not teach a literal personal dvil or literal personal demons. SSatna is a personification of the evil inclination within the human heart.

This is quite amusing. You forbid the very thing you then proceed to put forward!

You also didn't carefully define "speculative extrapolations" or give examples, nor did you explain what you mean by "descriptive accounts of God and Christ found in the Bible." What's more, you don't connect any of what you wrote to what I wrote. What, exactly, has what you wrote got to do with the verses I quoted and my comments on them?

I disagree very sharply with Sir Isaac Newton's ideas about the devil. And so does the Bible. Newton's ideas about the devil must be read into the Bible rather than drawn out of it. A straightforward, natural reading of Scripture leads us to think the devil is a real being, working actively to destroy God's creation and lead men into sin.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

I have a PhD in Physics. For me, the primary basis of my faith is experiential, not abstract.

You just might be the right person to connect with MG here who I think holds multiple qualifications in Pure Math I think. Math and Science yada for me

 

[disciple1]

One obstacle I suspect is that non-believers just don't believe they are loveable. And by loveable, I mean forgiveable too. And then to make that connection of being loved by God is too big a stretch. Why? Because they are blinded by sin. Sin tells them" don't believe all that baloney, just look after number one in this life, no one else cares about you. Only believe in things you can see. Let those delusional Christians believe in a happy ever after. it's all lies."
I've met enough cynical people in my life and adopted the same approach myself. "You live. You die. You're dust. get over it!"
How pessimistic! How lacking in imagination!
Lack of courage too. Lack of courage to believe in an invisible truth. "I'll be the laughing stock of all my atheistic friends if I become a Christian!"

One thing keeping people from being Christians is, pastors who don't know what their talking about, and greedy pastors, and most pastors haven't spent enough time studying the bible.
James chapter 3
3 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2 We all stumble in many ways. Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check.


Here's some verses the pastors should tell you.


Matthew chapter 4 verse 4
Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'"
Romans chapter 1 verse 28
Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.

John chapter 8 verse 31,32
To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, " If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
2 John
9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
Job chapter 23 verse 12
I have not departed from the commands of his lips; I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread.

Matthew 11
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Luke chapter 21
33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Romans chapter 10
17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ.
Mark chapter 13
31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
James chapter 1
25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.
James chapter 4
8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Isaiah chapter 45 verse 19
I have not spoken in secret, from somewhere in a land of darkness; I have not said to Jacob's descendants, 'Seek me in vain.' I, the LORD, speak the truth; I declare what is right.
Jeremiah chapter 9
24 but let the one who boasts boast about this:
that they have the understanding to know me,
that I am the Lord, who exercises kindness,
justice and righteousness on earth,
for in these I delight,”
declares the Lord.
Jeremiah chapter 5 verse 1
5 “Go up and down the streets of Jerusalem,
look around and consider,
search through her squares.
If you can find but one person
who deals honestly and seeks the truth,
I will forgive this city.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

One thing keeping people from being Christians is, pastors who don't know what their talking about,

We could be all false prophets for each other here on CF too.
I tend to respect Christians who are either widely read, (not just the Bible) or just plain good-natured folk who are living the Gospel.

 

[Open Heart]

One obstacle I suspect is that non-believers just don't believe they are loveable. And by loveable, I mean forgiveable too. And then to make that connection of being loved by God is too big a stretch. Why? Because they are blinded by sin. Sin tells them" don't believe all that baloney, just look after number one in this life, no one else cares about you. Only believe in things you can see. Let those delusional Christians believe in a happy ever after. it's all lies."
I've met enough cynical people in my life and adopted the same approach myself. "You live. You die. You're dust. get over it!"
How pessimistic! How lacking in imagination!
Lack of courage too. Lack of courage to believe in an invisible truth. "I'll be the laughing stock of all my atheistic friends if I become a Christian!"

The main obstacle is confusion. People grow up believing something else, and they see the world through that pair of glasses. If they are happy in that mindset, they have no reason to change. Human beings in general are not all that great at seeing things from a second point of view -- they do not persuade easily.

The second greatest obstacle is Christians ourselves. We simply are not loving, or at least not moreso than anyone else. Unless we witness with our lives, we are only so much talk, which is worthless. In the days of the early church, people were astonished; they would say, "Look at how they love one another." No one says this nowadays.

My son grew up in the church as a moderately autistic kid. No matter what church we went to, he was bullied. Although we were Catholic, I allowed him to attend Protestant churches hoping that he would would find one somewhere that would not bully him. No such luck. Today he wants nothing to do with God, Jesus, or the Church. Can you blame him?

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Interesting to read all the obstacles. So many.

 

[Emmy]

Dear bettercallpaul. The main obstacle for us is: selfish living and behaviour. Jesus gave us good advice in Matthew 22: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself." In verse 40 we are told: On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. God is Love, and God wants loving men and women. The Bible tells us:
Give up all selfish behaviour, and start loving and caring. Love is very catching, and God will see our loving and caring, and be the children which God wants us to be. In Matthew 7: 7-10: we are told: Ask and you shall receive. We ask God for Love and Joy, then thank God and share all love and joy, and compassion with our neighbour. ( all we know and all we meet. Ew
then follow Jesus our Saviour back to God, and keep loving and caring. God will see our loving efforts, and Jesus will lead us all the way: Jesus is the Way. God is Love and God wants loving sons and daughters. Let us be the children which God wants us to be, and start loving and caring, and give up all selfish and unloving behaviour. I say this with love, bettercallpaul. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Dear bettercallpaul. The main obstacle for us is: selfish living and behaviour. Jesus gave us good advice in Matthew 22: " The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself." In verse 40 we are told: On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. God is Love, and God wants loving men and women. The Bible tells us:
Give up all selfish behaviour, and start loving and caring. Love is very catching, and God will see our loving and caring, and be the children which God wants us to be. In Matthew 7: 7-10: we are told: Ask and you shall receive. We ask God for Love and Joy, then thank God and share all love and joy, and compassion with our neighbour. ( all we know and all we meet. Ew
then follow Jesus our Saviour back to God, and keep loving and caring. God will see our loving efforts, and Jesus will lead us all the way: Jesus is the Way. God is Love and God wants loving sons and daughters. Let us be the children which God wants us to be, and start loving and caring, and give up all selfish and unloving behaviour. I say this with love, bettercallpaul. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

I don't think I've ever met a Pharisee Salvo. Thanks for your post.

 

[Eryk]

My main obstacle has always been lack of evidence that God exists.

There is not enough evidence because evidence is not enough. The reality of spirit cannot be physically tested under laboratory conditions. I think that the historical facts indicate that Jesus is extraordinary, but that just puts us in the realm of probability. Spiritual things must be apprehended spiritually.

We must pray. That sounds circular, like the way to believe in God is to believe in God. But we have something already, as personal spiritual beings: a personal orientation to God our maker. We must do something, an act of reaching out, and this love of ours is the gift of Love. Only then do you know Him. And the Lord says, "Blessed are you, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven."

 

[disciple1]

We could be all false prophets for each other here on CF too.
I tend to respect Christians who are either widely read, (not just the Bible) or just plain good-natured folk who are living the Gospel.

We don't need to read anything but the bible.
Ecclesiastes chapter 12 verse 12
Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them. Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Be warned, my son,

I see you've mastered the language of the Pharisee.......
"be warned young child, in listening to false prophets"

 

[disciple1]

I see you've mastered the language of the Pharisee.......
"be warned young child, in listening to false prophets"

I see you've mastered the language of the Pharisee.......

I thought the bible was Gods word, I didn't know it was the Pharisee I was studying all these years, if I listened to you I'd be completely lost.
No offence, but I'll listen to the bible.