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What is the LDS End Time view ?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Phoenix, Aug 17, 2004.

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  1. Phoenix

    Phoenix Senior Member

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    Ok .. to quote a question that went unanswered in another thread ..

    What is the LDS end time view ?

    Could you refrain from arguing doctrine or whatever on this thread please ?
    I'm curious about this one and would like to see an LDS response.

    Thanks :wave:
     
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  2. fatboys

    fatboys Senior Veteran

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    FB: Being slow, what do you mean by end time view. Do you mean when the end is to come, or some of the particulars of the events?
     
  3. Jason of Wyoming

    Jason of Wyoming Well-Known Member

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    Were you looking for a specific date? If so, current LDS teachings have no "date" for the second coming. Early LDS leaders believed that Christ would return in 1891. Course, much like JW's, they realized that fixing dates is a dangerous game...
     
  4. Breetai

    Breetai For I am not ashamed of the Gospel...

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    Ok. Joseph Smith came and re-instated the true Church of Jesus Christ during the beginning of the time of the end(the latter-days). Before Jesus returns, the temple in Eden/New Jerusalem(Independance, MO.) must be rebuilt. Jesus returns to Earth and rules the Eastern world from Jerusalem. At this time, Joseph Smith also returns to rule from Independance, MO.

    Somewhere in there is the resurrection of the dead and the final judgement of all men, who will be judged on their good works to decide where they will spend eternity(celestial heaven, terestial heaven, telestical heaven or outside of heaven's gates). Only members in good standing with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints(Elohim's(Heavenly Father's) church) have a chance at attaining celestial glory.

    How am I doing so far?
     
  5. gort

    gort pedantric

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    oh....swell.....gee wally, how come I kinda knew that was gonna happen?


    <><
     
  6. ST:DS9

    ST:DS9 Active Member

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    Source?
     
  7. ST:DS9

    ST:DS9 Active Member

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    Well somethings you are right about, but there are some things that elude me, things like:

    1- Joesph Smith ruling in New Jerusalem
    2- Jesus Ruling from Jerusalem

    I do admit, that I have not put a whole lot of study in the events that are going to happen for the second coming of Christ. I have a basic knowledge, just not an in-depth knowledge. So what I am asking of you is your source for this info, so I can read for my self.

    Thank you.
     
  8. Breetai

    Breetai For I am not ashamed of the Gospel...

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    "It is the will of the Lord that those who went to Zion, with a determination to lay down their lives, if necessary, should be ordained to the ministry, and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, or the coming of the Lord, which was night even fifty-six years, should wind up the scene." -Joseph Smith, 1835

    (The History of the Church, vol II, page 182).
     
  9. Breetai

    Breetai For I am not ashamed of the Gospel...

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    I can recall reading that from a number of sources some time ago. It's possible that my memory is incorrect, but I'll see what I can dig up.
     
  10. usetheforce

    usetheforce Member

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    False, as usual. The Prophecy was conditional. The Lord said that if Joseph were to live till that time then the Lord would wind up His Purposes.
    Those who are actually familiar with the Bible itself know that this and even seemingly worse in the Bible aren't false prophecies.

    Although, you are correct about the JW's. They have clearly disobeyed scripture, and then finally about 10 years ago eliminated their traditions and Officially announced as the Bible states that no man knoweth the day of His hour of coming.
     
  11. ST:DS9

    ST:DS9 Active Member

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    :scratch: I really need to get those books. Seeing only one sentence doesn't really help me at all. I really need to see what was said before and after these. But very interesting indeed.
     
  12. usetheforce

    usetheforce Member

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    Joseph Smith Jr. will not be ruling New Jerusalem. He is dead.
    Christ is the only one who returns to rule the righteous.
     
  13. Breetai

    Breetai For I am not ashamed of the Gospel...

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    This helps show that Independance, MO., is the spot.

    (The gathering of the saints are to) to stand upon mount Zion which shall be called the city New Jerusalem, which city shall be built begin[n]ing at the Temple lot which is appointed by the finger of the Lord in the western boundaries of the State of Misso[uri] and dedicated by the hand of Joseph [Smith, Jr.] and others with whom the Lord was well pleased, verily this is the word of the Lord that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gath[e]ring of the saints begin[n]ing at this place, even the place of the Temple, which Temple shall be reared in this generation, for verely this generation shall not pass away untill an house shalt be built unto the Lord and a cloud shall rest upon it . . . which house shalt be built unto the Lord in this generation upon the consecrated spot as I have appointed.
    (brackets mine)

    -Manuscript in the Newel K. Whitney Collection, Harold B. Lee Library, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah. See also Kirtland Revelations Book, 20-21, 23; LDS D&C 82:2-5, 31; RLDS D&C 83:1b-2b, 6a.

    I'm still looking for something on Joseph Smith ruling from the west and Jesus from the East.
     
  14. Breetai

    Breetai For I am not ashamed of the Gospel...

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    Do you live in a large town. When I was in Edmonton, both the LDS library had this and the University of Alberta did. If there's a good sized university or college in your area, they might have it. Even your church might. The LDS church where I am now doesn't have that much, so I can't get any hard copies of stuff right now(although I haven't bothered to check the town library).
     
  15. usetheforce

    usetheforce Member

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    You are correct DS9. Anti's quote things related to the Church out of context in order to falsely represent the Church and hence bear false witness.
    Yes, there is more to the statement before and after, which changes the facts their false conclusions are based off of.
     
  16. Jason of Wyoming

    Jason of Wyoming Well-Known Member

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    "Source?" (ST:DS9)

    1st source: D&C 130:15

    2nd source: Journals of Wilford Woodruff, 1st Jan, 1891. Signature Books.

    3rd source: Breetai's given it. HC 2:182
     
  17. Breetai

    Breetai For I am not ashamed of the Gospel...

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    Here's something else about Joseph Smith predicting Christ's return in 1891(or 1890):

    Feb 14, 1835. HC 2:182. Joseph Smith preached that the coming of the Lord would be in 56 years (i.e., about 1891). This prophecy also occurs in his diary for April 6, 1843 and HC 5:336. See also D&C 130:14-17. Joseph Smith prophesies that "there of those of the rising generation who shall not taste death till Christ comes." He prophesies "in the name of the Lord God - let it be written: that the Son of Man will not come in the heavens till I am 85 years old, 48 years hence or about 1890." (The official historians have deleted the last phrase, beginning with "48 years" from the church history, but it is contained in the original diary.) The version in D&C 130 is phrased negatively, i.e., Christ will not come before 1890. It is also made conditional on Joseph Smith living to the age of 85. Joseph Smith says (v 16) that it might merely mean that if he lives to 85 he will go where Christ is, and therefore see his face. But that interpretation would not make sense if the revelation is in response to Joseph Smith's inquiry about the time of the second coming (v 14).
     
  18. Breetai

    Breetai For I am not ashamed of the Gospel...

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    I've found this bit on Jerusalem and New Jerusalem(which is in Missouri).

    Mormons believe in a literal second coming of Christ, the Mormons teach that at his return the Jews ill have been gathered to Palestine, the Mormons will be miraculously gathered together in Missouri, and the judgment of the Lord will be poured out upon the earth everywhere except on old and new Jerusalem. (Doctrine and Covenants 29:9-11) and Article 10, Articles of Faith
     
  19. Jason of Wyoming

    Jason of Wyoming Well-Known Member

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    "You are correct DS9. Anti's quote things related to the Church out of context in order to falsely represent the Church and hence bear false witness.
    Yes, there is more to the statement before and after, which changes the facts their false conclusions are based off of." (USE THE FORCE)


    Actually, that's not entirely correct. Most "anti's" dont resort to sensationalism in order to prove their point. Mormonism falls quite easily without adding all the fluff....
     
  20. Breetai

    Breetai For I am not ashamed of the Gospel...

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    Have I done that here? I don't think that I have. I quoted Joseph Smith; he said what he did about 1891. So far, it really does look like New Jerusalem is seem as being in Independance, MO.

    Usetheforce, here's an essay that I worte comparing Mormonism to Christianity. Go and read it.(http://www.christianforum.com/t110734) If I have said anything out of context, then please tell me. Just don't judge me as quoting out of context with the rest of the 'antis' before you get to know me. I have looked at Mormonism and the Book of Mormon with an open heart and I'm sure you know what I've concluded. I give you my reasons for concluding this and I do not believe that I am out of context often. When I am, it is not my intent.

    Sometimes I do not always bother to record my online sources when I post here. Most of the time these are 'anti-Mormon' sites which all have similar information anyway. They quote things from LDS sources and I give those whenever possible.
     
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