• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured What "is" the Law...?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Neogaia777, Oct 13, 2017.

  1. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +1,675
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
  2. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +1,675
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    What is it's true intent and purpose...? It's function...? It's application...?
     
  3. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +4,374
    Anabaptist
    It was a pleasant refreshing discovery
    to find out there are many TORAHs. (not just one)
    (in the BIBLE)

    Found while surfing the web last year -
    Perhaps someone has a convenient list available ?
     
  4. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +1,675
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    How should we teach it...?
     
  5. 1stcenturylady

    1stcenturylady Well-Known Member Supporter

    +2,206
    Charismatic
    Celibate
    To answer the OP...

    Exodus 34:28
    So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

    How should we teach it?

    Acts 2:38-39
    Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.”

    The Holy Spirit in you keeps God's law and leads you into all righteousness. The Holy Spirit makes you dead to sin (Romans 6:2), and causes you to not be in the flesh (Romans 8:8-9).

    Galatians 5:16-25
    16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

    19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

    New Covenant laws:
    1 John 3:23
    "And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  6. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

    +4,374
    Anabaptist
    "Blessed is the man who meditates on HIS WORD day and night....."
    Set HIS WORD before you coming and going, in your houses, think on HIS WORD frequently, and dwell on it as HE opens your hearts and minds and teaches in SPIRIT what is eternal, righteous, good and true.

    WOE , though, to anyone ignores and breaks GOD'S INSTRUCTIONS and who teaches others to break GOD'S INSTRUCTIONS (to be lawless, profane, defiled, like Esau, or Cain, or Ananias and Saphira, or worst of all, the betrayer of Jesus) ...
     
  7. mukk_in

    mukk_in Yagna Mukkamala Supporter

    627
    +773
    India
    Christian
    Celibate
    The law of God (reduced from the ten commandments in the old testament to two in the new) is and has always been God's will for us to love Him and each other. Where there's love there's no evil at all (no murder, adultery, theft, etc.) as the thought of disobeying God or harming our fellow human will not even occur to us. Peace in Christ :).
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • List
  8. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

    +710
    Non-Denom
    Married
    As Paul says in romans. The law convicts us of sin.
    That we are uder grace not the law, but that the spirit will lead us to keep the law (10C)
    And as Jesus said if someone teaches one of my little ones to sin ( that is to ignore the 10 C ) it would be better if they had never been born.
     
  9. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +1,675
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    At first, Beginning of being born-again...

    Eventually, but not immediately...

    Do we teach the "letter of the Law" or it's "spirit"...?

    What is it's spirit...?

    Do we teach "do not do" this or that (O.C.) or "do" this or that (N.C.)...?

    How do or should we teach people to live up to the law or not sin...?

    What method, what way, in presenting the O.C. accurately, in light of the N.C. is the right way...?

    God Bless!
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  10. Haipule

    Haipule Active Member

    440
    +285
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    The Hebrew word translated as "law" is torah and does NOT have the force of the English word law. Torah simply means: instruction.

    When we go to the NT, the anarthrous sentence construction(no definite article) '[ ]law' meaning the character and nature or, likeness of "law", referring to nonsensical pharisaical religious practices like circumcision, and the articular sentence construction 'thee law ' referring to God's true instructions for life. Paul talks a lot about []law vs. thee law.

    However, if anyone wishes to confuse this simple concept with sin: then they are thoroughly confused and confusing. But, I think you already found that out! :)
     
  11. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +1,675
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    What is the "instruction" of the law, how do or should we or anyone in light of the N.C. instruct it, either to ourselves, or others...?
     
  12. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

    +710
    Non-Denom
    Married
    People need to know what defines 'sin' and the 10C do that very clearly. So they should be clearly taught.
    As they teach us what sin is. By obeying them we will avoid sinning.
    But the gospel has also to be taught so those who are being challenged by there awareness of ther sinfull lives can have hope.

    The famous preacher moody delivered a powerfull message on Hell, he closed the meeting with the encouragement to come back next week to learn how to escape Hell.
    That week the chicargo fire devestated the city. That congragtion never reassembled and as a result Moody always included the gospel in ever sermon.

    All preachers/teachers should do the same. Deliver a message on any subject, but always include a gospel message.
     
  13. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +1,675
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    How can we (and by that I mean, possibly) obey them, how do we fulfill or complete them after the initial condemnation from it...? That is not a self-deceiving, or self-deluding way...? A way that can truly see success at the end of it...?
     
  14. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +1,675
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    The new covenant and gospel is the "truth", but, so is the law covenant...?

    How can they both be truth...?

    God Bless!
     
  15. discipler7

    discipler7 New Member

    47
    +18
    Heard Island And Mcdonald Islands
    Christian
    Single
    .
    Whenever Paul preached against the Law vs Grace wrt justification for salvation(eg GAL.2:16), he was referring to Moses Law that was being meticulously kept by the Jews and early Jewish Christians. Moses Law consists of 633 different laws or commandments. Blessings and curses from God for the Jews were based on Moses Law, as per DEUT.28. They might also apply to Gentiles.

    Historically, at around 1400BC, God gave Moses and the Jews His Law, in order to curb fallen humans' inborn tendency to commit sins/evil-deeds(GENESIS.6:5). From 1400BC to about 400BC, Moses Law was enforced on the Jews by the Jewish prophet/judge rulers and kings of the Jewish nation. Thereafter, the Jewish nation came under foreign rule and foreign Law.
    ... During the 1st Advent of Jesus Christ to earth in 0'BC, Judea/Israel was under Roman rule and Roman Law but the Jews still kept Moses Law. Eg even though Roman Law permitted adultery, incest, homosexuality, idolatry, prostitution, etc, most of the Jews at that time avoided such Gentile immorality which was not permitted by Moses Law. OTOH, the Jews had to pay both Roman taxes and Jewish Temple tithes.

    At ACTS.15:24-29, God has exempted new Gentile Christians from any law of Moses which is a burden, eg circumcision and kosher foods. They are not exempted from any law which is not a burden, esp morality laws, eg the Ten Commandments(EXODUS.20), DEUT.18:9-14, LEV.10:9 & 18:22, etc.
    ... In comparison, new Jewish Christians are required by God to continue to keep Moses Law, as many as possible, because it is not a burden to them.

    Those "Christians" who wantonly or ignorantly commit sins/evil-deeds/law-breaking risk losing their salvation while suffering horribly for their sins, eg by cursing/blaspheming God/Jesus and die. Be warned by DEUT.28:15, JOB, 1COR.5:5 & 11:30, 1JOHN.5:16-19, HEBREWS.10:26-31, 1COR.6:9-11, REV.22:12-15, ie sins/evil-deeds/law-breaking have consequences - some may lead to a horrible early death(= risk losing salvation/faith) and some may not, eg convicted murderers are usually executed and traffic offenders only have to pay a fine.
    ... Being saved from hell after death rests solely on faith/trust/belief in Jesus as the Christ/Messiah/Savior.(JOHN.3:16, eg LUKE.23:43)
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  16. Tolworth John

    Tolworth John Well-Known Member

    +710
    Non-Denom
    Married
    God command," Be Perfect as the Lord your God is Perfect."
    You are right we cannot obey Jesus's commands, that is why we constantly have to return, shamefaced to confess yet another failure.

    Our inability to obey does not mean we don't keep trying or keep teaching it.
     
  17. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +1,675
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    Surely that is not how God meant us to live all our days, is it...?

    Agree, but how do we try, or how do we approach or attempt this (keeping the commandments) the right way...? And teach the right way to others...?
     
  18. Gottservant

    Gottservant God loves your words, may men love them also Supporter

    +96
    Messianic
    The Law is a break with what is, for the sake of what already was.

    That what already was, is treated in like manner to what is - is either faith or a curse.

    The choice between faith and curse, effectuates the law in the heart for what will have been.

    -

    I think the strength of the law is that faith would rather restrain the curse; on the other hand the weakness of the law is that the curse still benefits a little from the faith (or the blessing thereof).
     
  19. Neogaia777

    Neogaia777 Apprentice Supporter

    +1,675
    Non-Denom
    Celibate
    Cryptic response...?

    I don't understand, sorry...?

    God Bless!
     
  20. Haipule

    Haipule Active Member

    440
    +285
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    First of all, the Decalogue are NOT "commandments"! The Hebrew word translated as "commandment" is dabar and means: a word given in any capacity. It is translated by no less then 85 different words in the KJV. See the problem?

    The first dabar is, "I am the Lord your God". How is that a "command". The rest, save one, are ALL in the future tense. You shall(future) not murder. Is God then saying that it's ok now but, in the future: no way pal! Of course not!

    They are in the future tense because they are proclamations(the word given) and not "commandments".

    Are you a murderer? Do you steal? Do you bear false witness? I doubt all of that seriously. Yet, did God proclaimed you and I correctly? Do you see then that God proclaimed you from His love on who and what you are to be? I'm glad He did because that makes you easy to recognize from the rest!

    The only one given in the sense of a command is, "Honor your mother and your father". And that was given with a promise.

    In the Newer Covenants, Jesus quotes this passage using the subjunctive mood and not the imperative mood of command. Jesus did not say, "Do not murder" as it is translated. He said. "No you might not be murdering". Why? Because these are Gods proclamations, from His love, to all mankind, and to the angels, of who a what we are to be--His!

    [edited to add] the word translated as "commandment(s)" in the Newer Covenants is entOlE and means: in-destiny. Which goes quite well with proclamation.

    You will walk like a duck and talk like a duck so that we all know that you are God's duck--beloved child!

    Ain't it good? Idn'it beautiful?
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • List
Loading...