What is the Historical Gospel of Jesus Christ?

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

If we must "keep the Law" then we need to shut down the Police, Emergency, and Medical personnel that violate the Sabbath every Saturday.

Not true at all. They do good on the Sabbath. There is no prohibition, as Yeshua said, to do good on Shabbat. Pikuach Nefesh

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Sorry, no, it isn't Torah.

Don't get mad at me that you do not understand Torah, it is not my fault. I am trying to help you but your pride and stubbornness prevent it.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I ask again: when was the last time you went to the Temple and sacrifice was made for your sin?

I will tell you again...that is a silly question since there is no temple.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

So you are saying you are claiming to be Messianic Eastern Orthodox?


God bless.

Was I?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

So where is the Scripture that shows Abraham had the Mystery of the Gospel revealed to him despite the fact Paul teaches that it was not revealed to the sons of men in past Ages?

Where is the Scripture that teaches we are under Law?

The binding of Isaac. Under the law? Yeshua became a curse for us. Do you not believe this?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Do you think the Tanakh is inspired Scripture?

Don't you?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

So how can you keep the Law?

You were never required to keep laws you can't keep LOL! There is no temple! I have asked you before how Yeshua kept the laws of menstruation since you said He kept ALL the laws...silence.

 

[Valletta]

And I am sure you are correct but as I said. The Greek phrase "Kata Holos" which means "according to the whole" occurs 6 times in the NT. It was not until 1075 when the bishop of Rome Gregory issued his Dictatus Papae placing himself in charge of the church. If the bishop of Rome had such authority prior to Gregory it would not be necessary for anyone to issue the dictates.

Actually a lot of pronouncements, whether from Church Councils or popes, come at times where division is starting to grow or what has been so is now being questioned. For example, the books of the Bible from the early councils were re-affirmed at Carthage in 419 A.D., by the Council of Florence 1442 A.D., and by the Council of Trent in 1546 A.D. A lot of Protestants look at the Trent text and say that the Catholic Church first came up with their list at the Council of Trent, and that means they added books of the Bible at Trent, etc.

 

[Daniel Peres]

And I am sure you are correct but as I said. The Greek phrase "Kata Holos" which means "according to the whole" occurs 6 times in the NT. It was not until 1075 when the bishop of Rome Gregory issued his Dictatus Papae placing himself in charge of the church. If the bishop of Rome had such authority prior to Gregory it would not be necessary for anyone to issue the dictates.

Do you know why the Eastern Orthodox Churches never call Ecumenical councils anymore. It’s because even they know that only the Pope has the authority to convene a council. They disagree about papal infallibility, but they are fully aware that there is a pope and which man currently holds that position.

Are you aware of how the Arian controversy was settled. Emperor Constantine was concerned that the Arian controversy would bring disunity to the Church and as a result the Christian God would punish him for letting the church be subjected to harm. He was terrified the Christian God would punish him by taking the empire from his control.

So the first thing he did was contact a bishop in Spain called Hosius of Cordoba. Prior to taking control of the entire empire, Constantine ruled the Western European part of the Roman Empire, so his highest level contact in the church was Hosius. He asked Hosius for assistance in dealing with the Arian controversy. Hosius told that the issue could only be resolved by an ecumenical council, so he informed Constantine that he had to contact the bishop of Rome, aka the Pope, because only the pope had the authority to convene an ecumenical council of bishops.

Then there is St. Ireneaus. He gave his famous list of all the popes beginning with Peter. The interesting thing about Iranians is that he learned his church history from Polycarp who, in turn, leaned his church history from John the Apostle. Not only that, but Polycarp also personally interacted with several Christians that had personally witnessed Jesus teaching. Do you really think the list of Popes Polycarp gave Iraneaus was BS. Would you really suggest that a disciple of John the Apostle would lie to his student about church history. Sadly, I can already predict that you will say that Polycarp was evil and therefore willingly misrepresented everything John the Apostle taught him.

 

[Der Alte]

Do you know why the Eastern Orthodox Churches never call Ecumenical councils anymore. It’s because even they know that only the Pope has the authority to convene a council. They disagree about papal infallibility, but they are fully aware that there is a pope and which man currently holds that position.
Are you aware of how the Arian controversy was settled. Emperor Constantine was concerned that the Arian controversy would bring disunity to the Church and as a result the Christian God would punish him for letting the church be subjected to harm. He was terrified the Christian God would punish him by taking the empire from his control.
So the first thing he did was contact a bishop in Spain called Hosius of Cordoba. Prior to taking control of the entire empire, Constantine ruled the Western European part of the Roman Empire, so his highest level contact in the church was Hosius. He asked Hosius for assistance in dealing with the Arian controversy. Hosius told that the issue could only be resolved by an ecumenical council, so he informed Constantine that he had to contact the bishop of Rome, aka the Pope, because only the pope had the authority to convene an ecumenical council of bishops.
Then there is St. Ireneaus. He gave his famous list of all the popes beginning with Peter. The interesting thing about Iranians is that he learned his church history from Polycarp who, in turn, leaned his church history from John the Apostle. Not only that, but Polycarp also personally interacted with several Christians that had personally witnessed Jesus teaching. Do you really think the list of Popes Polycarp gave Iraneaus was BS. Would you really suggest that a disciple of John the Apostle would lie to his student about church history. Sadly, I can already predict that you will say that Polycarp was evil and therefore willingly misrepresented everything John the Apostle taught him.

When one quotes a source, it is customary to cite the name, chapter, section etc.
What is your point about Popes? Before Gregory all bishops used the title Papa, Gregory reserved that title for himself, alone.

 

[Der Alte]

Actually a lot of pronouncements, whether from Church Councils or popes, come at times where division is starting to grow or what has been so is now being questioned. For example, the books of the Bible from the early councils were re-affirmed at Carthage in 419 A.D., by the Council of Florence 1442 A.D., and by the Council of Trent in 1546 A.D. A lot of Protestants look at the Trent text and say that the Catholic Church first came up with their list at the Council of Trent, and that means they added books of the Bible at Trent, etc.

Sources?

 

[Valletta]

Sources?

Do you want me to quote the text of those particular councils that listed the same books of the Bible in the same order? Or the background of history on those dates? For example, Protestants dropped a number of books from the Bible and so it should be no surprise that a Council re-affirmed the original books of the Bible in the same order decided upon by the Catholic Church.

 

[Der Alte]

Do you want me to quote the text of those particular councils that listed the same books of the Bible in the same order? Or the background of history on those dates? For example, Protestants dropped a number of books from the Bible and so it should be no surprise that a Council re-affirmed the original books of the Bible in the same order decided upon by the Catholic Church.

When one cites a source, it is customary to give the name of the source, chapter, section etc. Something like this "The First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians.1 Chap. I."

 

[Valletta]

When one cites a source, it is customary to give the name of the source, chapter, section etc. Something like this "The First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians.1 Chap. I."

I understand citations, I just wasn't sure what in particular you wanted cited.

 

[Der Alte]

I understand citations, I just wasn't sure what in particular you wanted cited.

Whenever you refer to something, a person said or did. Where did you get the info? I have a digital copy of the standard ECF collection so I can easily look up Irenaeus, Polycarp etc.

 

[Valletta]

Whenever you refer to something, a person said or did. Where did you get the info? I have a digital copy of the standard ECF collection so I can easily look up Irenaeus, Polycarp etc.

Sure, I did give a link for St. Ignatius of Antioch in my post #732 and what I did is was just search on the word "Catholic."

 

[RobertPate]

The Gospel is a declaration by God that his Son Jesus Christ has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and now sits in heaven as... "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

All that Jesus is, and all that Jesus did, he did in our name and on our behalf. In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed and now stand in God's Holy Court as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. In Jesus Christ the law has been fulfilled, Matthew 5:18 and abolished, Ephesians 2:15.

Catholicism is a denial of this Gospel and justification by faith alone. We are justified by faith alone, because we are justified by Christ alone, Jesus justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles them unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. Making us complete in himself, Colossians 2:14. Jesus Christ is not only the end of the law for righteousness, Romans 10:4, He is the end of all religions.

 

[Daniel Peres]

When one quotes a source, it is customary to cite the name, chapter, section etc.
What is your point about Popes? Before Gregory all bishops used the title Papa, Gregory reserved that title for himself, alone.

What would you like me to quote? Church history? Ecumenical councils?
Also that comment that Pope Gregory reserved the title for himself is absolute nonsense. Where did you get this from? I know that your wrong because there have always been other bishops who were called popes other than the bishop of Rome. In fact, there are still other bishops today that are called pope. The bishop of Rome doesn’t even have the authority to reserve the title for himself. Papal infallibility can only be used in matters involving faith and morals. When it comes to discipline, the Bishop of Rome only has control over his patriarchy of the Latin Rite. That’s why eastern Catholics still have married priests even today. Priestly celibacy a a matter of discipline, and a the bishop of Rome has no authority over another Catholic patriarchs domain. This is also why even though west has screwed up the Latin Rite liturgy, they haven’t been able to harm the liturgy of the 22 Eastern Catholic Churches. They all still have their beautiful traditional liturgies and Pope Francis can do nothing to stop them because he simply doesn’t have that authority.

 

[Daniel Peres]

The Gospel is a declaration by God that his Son Jesus Christ has victoriously defeated sin, death and the devil and now sits in heaven as... "The King of Kings and the Lord of Lords" Revelation 19:16.

All that Jesus is, and all that Jesus did, he did in our name and on our behalf. In Jesus Christ we have been justified, sanctified and redeemed and now stand in God's Holy Court as perfect and complete "In Christ" Colossians 2:10. In Jesus Christ the law has been fulfilled, Matthew 5:18 and abolished, Ephesians 2:15.

Catholicism is a denial of this Gospel and justification by faith alone. We are justified by faith alone, because we are justified by Christ alone, Jesus justifies the ungodly, Romans 4:5 and reconciles them unto God, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19. Making us complete in himself, Colossians 2:14. Jesus Christ is not only the end of the law for righteousness, Romans 10:4, He is the end of all religions.

There you go again. Even after I educated you about what a Gospel is you now change the source of the gospel from Paul to the God the Father. The father was no longer king since the Jews rejected him as their king and demanded an earthly king. Jesus, the son, was the Messiah/ Christ/ Anointed One. First you didn’t know what a gospel was and now it seems you don’t know what that a messiah is a king. Therefore, by definition, gospel had to be issued by Jesus, the Messiah, the Christ, the King. I am amazed that you still are unable to comprehend that a gospel comes only from the King.

 

[Der Alte]

What would you like me to quote? Church history? Ecumenical councils?
Also that comment that Pope Gregory reserved the title for himself is absolute nonsense. Where did you get this from? I know that your wrong because there have always been other bishops who were called popes other than the bishop of Rome. In fact, there are still other bishops today that are called pope. The bishop of Rome doesn’t even have the authority to reserve the title for himself. Papal infallibility can only be used in matters involving faith and morals. When it comes to discipline, the Bishop of Rome only has control over his patriarchy of the Latin Rite. That’s why eastern Catholics still have married priests even today. Priestly celibacy a a matter of discipline, and a the bishop of Rome has no authority over another Catholic patriarchs domain. This is also why even though west has screwed up the Latin Rite liturgy, they haven’t been able to harm the liturgy of the 22 Eastern Catholic Churches. They all still have their beautiful traditional liturgies and Pope Francis can do nothing to stop them because he simply doesn’t have that authority.

Sources I reviewed for info on Gregory.
DICTATUS PAPAE: PAPAL PRINCIPLES
Dictatus papae | papal claims
Dictatus Papae | Encyclopedia.com
Dictatus Papae | Encyclopedia.com
West Oregon
http://www.wou.edu/history/files/2015/08/Christopher-Perkins1.pdf
Mich State