What Is the Higher Power Atheists Appeal To?

[Strathos]

In this context, how are you defining "supreme"? Power wise? Intelligent wise? What do you mean by supreme?

K

Supreme as God is. All of nature is subordinate to Him.

 

[Ken-1122]

Supreme as God is. All of nature is subordinate to Him.

Okay. To answer your question from post #233, all those natural forces in the Universe that mankind is powerless against? Just because we are powerless against them does not make them superior to us; IMO we are superior to them.


Ken

 

[Freodin]

Okay. To answer your question from post #233, all those natural forces in the Universe that mankind is powerless against? Just because we are powerless against them does not make them superior to us; IMO we are superior to them.


Ken

Look at the term that Strathos used. "Subordinate".

When a Christian talks about "higher power", it always has the connotation of "authority". A power structure for them is based on "command and obey", not "action and reaction".

It's this difference is views that makes it seem impossible for theists to understand atheists.

 

[Strathos]

Okay. To answer your question from post #233, all those natural forces in the Universe that mankind is powerless against? Just because we are powerless against them does not make them superior to us; IMO we are superior to them.


Ken

Perhaps you should go and stand in front of an erupting volcano and shout about how superior you are to it. See where that gets you.

 

[durangodawood]

Perhaps you should go and stand in front of an erupting volcano and shout about how superior you are to it. See where that gets you.

"Superior" and "inferior" are too loaded for this discussion unless we specify what we mean.

 

[Freodin]

Perhaps you should go and stand in front of an erupting volcano and shout about how superior you are to it. See where that gets you.

Perhaps you should challenge the volcano to a game of chess. It wouldn't even know how to place the pieces.

That's the problem with these terms. "Higher" and "superior" and all that. There is no single hierarchy of "power".

 

[durangodawood]

Perhaps you should challenge the volcano to a game of chess. It wouldn't even know how to place the pieces.

That's the problem with these terms. "Higher" and "superior" and all that. There is no single hierarchy of "power".

Exactly.

A volcano can move more dirt than you. But you can write better poetry.

 

[keith99]

Perhaps you should go and stand in front of an erupting volcano and shout about how superior you are to it. See where that gets you.

Why should I do that? I did not stand in front of my dogs and yell at them to establish who was in charge. Surely not when they were 'erupting' for they first time. Instead I worked with their nature and the result was a pack not just willing but eager to do my will.

Mankind is superior to nature in the sense that man can use how nature works to accomplish what man desires. Fools instead try to work against nature and that rarely ends well.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

A big part of the difficulty is that the theist is asking about a solution to something that I and many non believers do not view as a problem.

Can your give an example of when an appeal to a higher power is required?

 

[Strathos]

A big part of the difficulty is that the theist is asking about a solution to something that I and many non believers do not view as a problem.

Can your give an example of when an appeal to a higher power is required?

When you can't deal with something yourself.

 

[durangodawood]

When you can't deal with something yourself.

Why does that require a higher power? What about just another power, like a person?

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

When you can't deal with something yourself.

In those cases there's a number of options.

1) Reach out to others for advice, strategy, etc. This includes attempting to learn a skill if the situation allows.
2) Accept that that something beyond your reach or power to affect (directly or others on your behalf). Sometimes bad things happen and we are powerless to affect them.

Those are my top two responses to such situations. Other people may also ask others to help. Humans are powerful when united in a common goal.

 

[Ken-1122]

Perhaps you should go and stand in front of an erupting volcano and shout about how superior you are to it. See where that gets you.

And what does this have to do with anything I've said thus far? (hint; nothing) As I said before, there are many things in nature that are bigger and stronger than I am, but that doesn't make it superior.

 

[Ana the Ist]

When you can't deal with something yourself.

Lots of people get help from others in difficult circumstances without "appealing to a higher power" at all.

I can also think of several cases when people who are under some difficult situation "appeal to a higher power" instead of continuing to look for real solutions to their problems...and their problems only get worse. It's often that a person has to realize that they'll only find the right answer to their problems if they continue to search for those answers... that they head down the path that eventually leads to a solution.

I think christianity sometimes leaves people in a state of self imposed helplessness. The whole idea that their current situation is part of "gods plan" or that they should pray for a solution to a very fixable problem leaves some people sitting around and waiting for a solution which never comes.

You only need to head over to the singles section to see thread after thread like this. Single people "waiting" for god to bring them the right husband/wife when they should be making a real effort to find that relationship....and they aren't. Instead, they'll bring up a few failures which have stopped them from even trying...or they'll talk about personality flaws (I'm too scared to ask that person for a date....or I don't have a lot of friends, people don't find me likable, low self esteem) which they could be working on improving so they can find someone. They don't though...instead they pray for god to just drop the right person into their life.

What's sad is when you see the long term effects, and you can find these threads as well, of people who are just hoping for god to find them a partner. They end up as single virgins in their 30s...40s...or later...who've never had a meaningful relationship and yet long for one...often bitterly. You can only wonder what might have been for these people if they hadn't spent so many long years simply appealing to a higher power.

 

[AkaManah]

The "higher power" that atheists (origin: Greek átheos meaning "godless") appeal to? I think you missed the point somewhere. It's like saying atheism is a religion. The definition of religion is "a particular system of faith and worship." Atheists don't have a faith in any God to worship. There is no Church of Atheism. There is no atheist Bible. There is no atheist "Higher Power." These are all oxymorons.

To be an atheist is to simply not be religious. And the whole variety of beliefs among individual atheists cannot be generalized, as the only thing all atheists have in common is that they don't believe in a higher power.

Isn't it a bit hypocritical, or at least self-defeating when a religious person calls atheism a religion and then projects the problems of his own religion to atheism? I find it hilarious.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

.Isn't it a bit hypocritical, or at least self-defeating when a religious person calls atheism a religion and then projects the problems of his own religion to atheism? I find it hilarious.

To be fair to religious and specifically Christian people, my discussions with and reading testimonials from Christians who have deepened their faith, been born again, or converted from atheism (or even other faiths) often involve some unresolved problem. The problems of authority or "meaning" seem to be big drivers towards faith.

For me, these aren't issues that keep me up at night.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The "higher power" that atheists (origin: Greek átheos meaning "godless") appeal to? I think you missed the point somewhere. It's like saying atheism is a religion. The definition of religion is "a particular system of faith and worship." Atheists don't have a faith in any God to worship. There is no Church of Atheism. There is no atheist Bible. There is no atheist "Higher Power." These are all oxymorons.

To be an atheist is to simply not be religious. And the whole variety of beliefs among individual atheists cannot be generalized, as the only thing all atheists have in common is that they don't believe in a higher power.

Isn't it a bit hypocritical, or at least self-defeating when a religious person calls atheism a religion and then projects the problems of his own religion to atheism? I find it hilarious.

Rest assured, not all Christians here will agree on what to expect from an atheist or from her belief.

By the way, welcome to CF!

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The "higher power" that atheists (origin: Greek átheos meaning "godless") appeal to? I think you missed the point somewhere. It's like saying atheism is a religion. The definition of religion is "a particular system of faith and worship." Atheists don't have a faith in any God to worship. There is no Church of Atheism. There is no atheist Bible. There is no atheist "Higher Power." These are all oxymorons.

To be an atheist is to simply not be religious. And the whole variety of beliefs among individual atheists cannot be generalized, as the only thing all atheists have in common is that they don't believe in a higher power.

Isn't it a bit hypocritical, or at least self-defeating when a religious person calls atheism a religion and then projects the problems of his own religion to atheism? I find it hilarious.

By the way, I apologize for calling you a "newb." But, do be aware that there are rules to the CF forums, and if you don't abide by them, then the mods will typically censor your responses accordingly.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What is the higher power atheists appeal to?

Atheists don't believe in "higher powers".

 

[keith99]

Atheists don't believe in "higher powers".

Sure we do. I consider anything over cubed to be a higher power!