What is the EO view of Revelation?

[Vesper_Jaye✝️]

What is the EO view of the events in Revelation? Does it take place in the past, future, or both? Will there be a rapture and when?

 

[Lukaris]

Here is a link to an Orthodox wiki article on Revelation:

Book of Revelation - OrthodoxWiki

 

[Lukaris]

More information:

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/joelj...you-should-know-about-the-book-of-revelation/

 

[ArmyMatt]

What is the EO view of the events in Revelation? Does it take place in the past, future, or both? Will there be a rapture and when?

yes to all, although we reject the modern evangelical understanding of the rapture.

 

[Light of the East]

QUOTE: "The Apocalypse of St. John, or the Book of Revelation, is the last book of the Bible, and in most traditions is believed to cover those events which surround the end of the world, and the Last Judgement."

Which is not the opinion I hold to as I read the Sacred Scriptures. Just the first chapter by itself shows that this cannot be:

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly (ἐν τάχει) come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. (ἐγγύς )

ἐν τάχει (en tachos) means "speedily." 2,000 years is not speedily.

Matthew 26:18 And he said, Go into the city to such a man, and say unto him, The Master saith, My time is at hand; G1451 I will keep the Passover at thy house with my disciples.

(ἐγγύς ) engys Means now, not 2,000 years from now. When Jesus said that His time was "at hand," He meant within days, not centuries.

This is the problem when people come to the Scriptures with a presuppositional set of beliefs and then read everything in a manner which fits what they believe, rather than doing the work of digging into the meaning of the words, the context, to whom the speech was addressed, etc.

Revelation is about the destruction of Jerusalem, the end of the age and the beginning of the next age (which Jesus spoke about in detail in Matthew 23-25). If there was a Rapture, it already took place and there is not another one on the horizon.

Finally, look at the last chapters of Revelation:
Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Verse 1 In Jewish Apocalyptic Language, “heaven and earth” are a reference to the Old Covenant kingdom passing away. As discussed earlier in the book, the reference is to the Temple in Jerusalem, the very heart of the Kingdom of Heaven. This is precisely what happened in 70 AD, prophesied by Christ when He spoke the parable of the fig tree in Luke 13:1–9. The fig tree, national Israel, had borne no fruit. The owner of the vineyard gave it one more year to bear fruit, then it would be cut down. The added year ended in 70 AD with the destruction of Jerusalem, which according to Matthew 21:33–46, was the end of national Israel as the special husbandmen of the vineyard of God, the kingdom on earth. Not understanding Jewish Apocalyptic Language, it was not too long before Greek and Roman Christians began seeing this as a prophecy of the destruction of the visible earth and the heavens above us.

Verse 2 Some important wording here is totally missed. The New Jerusalem comes down from heaven. What is this New Jerusalem? The verse itself tells us. It is the bride. Who is the bride of Christ but the New Covenant church? God gives to the world the church in all Her beauty to bring salvation to us. How can the church come down to the world if this is the end of all things? The church came down to the world in fullness on the day of Pentecost.

Verse 3 The tabernacle is the dwelling place of God among men. Everything is changing now with the end of the Old Covenant. There is a new Jerusalem, the church, come down to be among men. Within each parish of the church is a tabernacle where God dwells in the Eucharist. Everything Judaism had is found new in Christianity.

Verse 4 This could be one of those “Ah hah! Gotcha!” verses for those who believe this is speaking of the end of all things. In discussing verses six and seven, I will show you why this is impossible. Those who believe that this chapter is speaking of the eschatological end of all things will snidely ask, “No pain? No sorrow? Who are you kidding? Look around you!” At first, I was a bit stumped by this until I realized that this passage is speaking of the celestial view of reality and not of this illusory life. For the Christian, there really is no pain or sorrow. We have been redeemed. Our 21st century lazy and self-indulgent lives have entirely missed what it means to be a Christian. This verse is speaking of the spiritual reality for the believer. Death no longer has dominion over us. Look at the joy of the martyrs as they die with hymns of praise on their lips. Truly suffering has no hold over them.

Verse 6 This verse has a "time indicator" showing that this passage cannot be the end of the world. At the end of all things, according to Infernalists, your eternal state is settled. Either you are in Christ, and thus not thirsty, or are separated from Him, and will be thirsting but will get nothing to drink forever. This is not what the verse says. It says those who are thirsting may come and drink freely. This cannot be a believer, since he already has rivers of water flowing from within, quenching his spiritual thirst. It can only mean the unbeliever who comes to recognize his thirst for the living water of Christ and appeals for a drink. This is the promise of the Gospel, which went out to all the world and made millions of converts. The message of God’s love made men and women thirst to experience that love. If this passage in Revelation is about the end of all things, this invitation is ridiculous because the wicked, according to Infernalist teaching, will never have their desire (thirst) for God satisfied.

Verse 7 Another "time indicator" showing this is about things that are yet to come. How does Jesus say “he that shall overcome (future tense) shall inherit all things” if this passage is about the end of the world, and the issue of inheriting eternal life or being disinherited is completely settled? If you think this is the end of the world, then there is no “shall inherit” because those who are in heaven with Christ have already inherited and those who you assume are in hell forever cannot inherit. The way Infernalists read Revelation 20, everything is finished, and you are either redeemed with Christ or damned in the eternal lake of fire, with no opportunity to overcome. Instead, here is an invitation open to all: overcome your passions, overcome the sin that binds you, and you shall inherit that which has been prepared for all my children from the beginning of all things.

Verse 8 Infernalists teach that this verse is speaking about casting sinners into an everlasting fire of hell. It is not. It is a warning to those who shall remain stubbornly attached to sin. They shall not only experience the first death, that of their physical bodies, but also the second death of being cast into the smelting furnace, described here as the lake of fire. Again, remember that we are speaking of symbolic language here. It is not a literal fire as described by the warped imaginations of some Western theologians. There is only one fire in the next life and in the ages of ages to come–the passionate fire of God’s love, of which early fathers such as St. Isaac the Syrian spoke. Our God is a consuming fire, and what is consumed is all that is His enemy–death, the grave, and all evil. We are not His enemies. We are all of us His children. Some have been, and many are to this day, extremely sick with evil, but that does not make them not His children. It makes them sick and in need of bitter medicine to become well. We can either take it now, or take it later, which will be much, much more unpleasant. The choice is yours!

Reading the rest of chapter 21 verifies this. From verse ten on we see a description of the church as the bride of Christ. We are given a description of how it appears as a celestial reality. And notice that the gates of it are never shut. The Gospel invitation remains open to all, even after death. The only restriction is that in this beautiful celestial city, no one may enter who is defiled with sin. This is the whole purpose of the fire of God’s love. It is to cleanse the impurities and bring the soul to repentance. This is the splendor of God’s love.

I will need to answer one more objection which I already can hear from those Infernalists who are determined to make this book a book of God’s eternal condemnation of sinners. It is from the closing chapter of Revelation.

Revelation 22:10 “And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. 11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly;[1] and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.”

God insists to John that the wicked remain wicked and the just remain just. Infernalists will point to verse eleven as a proof text that there is no repentance after death. But in their zeal to damn souls, they cruise right by yet another crucial time indicator which shows a shift in the action. Here the action returns to earth away from visions of the heavenly city. Christ speaks to John in the here and now with instructions about the coming destruction of Jerusalem. The time is at hand, coming quickly–not two thousand years down the road. At hand. Quickly. These are important adjectives which show that the time for all this was about to happen. The focus of Christ has shifted back to what is about to happen to Jerusalem.

And what is about to happen to those in Jerusalem whose future is destruction? Christ says let the wicked remain wicked. They are going to reap the reward of their evil and there will be no turning from it. This is the true meaning of election. Jesus spoke about the Pharisees as having been blinded by God so that they might not see what He was teaching and be saved. He goes on to say that this is not from some dreadful decision of God made before the foundation of the world, but because this is what they have chosen and now God honors that choice and does not give them ears to hear and eyes to see. It is not about some plan of God to damn people out of the mystery of his will, but about the choices we make.

This is a fearful pronouncement that all should take to heart. Just like Pharaoh, there comes a time when God says, after you have refused and refused and refused to listen, “Okay. Have it your way. Reap what you have sown.” After the Crucifixion, national Israel was symbolically given one more year as the fig tree to repent, turn to Christ, and bear fruit. Not only did they utterly fail, but they also filled up the measure of their fathers who killed the prophets by persecuting to death Christ’s people. Now the full reward for their evil would be given, starting with their deaths in Jerusalem and their falling into the chastening hands of God. There would be no turning back. God now declares their hearts shall be hardened just as Pharaoh’s heart was. Behold I come quickly, Christ says, and to give every man in this wretched nation what they have earned according to their deeds.

The only mercy of this terrible proclamation is that God’s justice is not eternal conscious torment. As discussed before, in lex talionis, you are scourged in proportion to what you have done. Once your measure is filled up, justice is served.

Matthew and Revelation, so often quoted as proof-texts for a future Great Tribulation and eternal damnation of souls, are about national Israel. The focus of Christ is on the coming destruction. His warnings on how to be saved are focused on this event. He warns both the nation and individuals of what will happen if they repent–and what will happen if they do not. He weeps over Jerusalem, His beloved city as He has come to realize their stubbornness has sealed the fate of this once magnificent city. Yet the last book of the Bible closes with the promise of something even greater. The New Jerusalem appears to all, her gates never to be shut, and the eternal invitation is this: “Come all you who thirst, and drink freely of the water of life.”

Revelation closes and completes this wonderful story–the redemption of all creation and the victory of God over evil. In Genesis the way back into the Garden, a symbol of God’s presence, is blocked. In Revelation, the Garden of His love is opened and shall never be shut. All may enter in. Some will in this life, finding the fullness of that entrance after death. Others, after dying, will have a long journey of repentance, filled with the cleansing fire of our Father’s corrective love. But the invitation is ever extended, the mercy of God never fails, the will of God to save all shall be accomplished. This is the Good News of the Gospel

[1] In Greek, the word is tachý, takh-oo' and means quickly, speedily (without delay). 2,000 years of waiting for the coming of the Lord hardly meets the qualification of quickly or speedily.

(From the book A LAYMAN INVESTIGATES UNIVERSAL SALVATION - Published by Wipf and Stock Publishing Co. Eugene Or. 2021 Page 99 -102)
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Please ignore the writing about Universal Restoration. Do not wish to discuss it or promote it. My point in quoting this book is that the author clearly shows that the "time indicators" in these verses do allow for this to be the end of the world. If it were, as the author shows, there would be no invitation to come and drink of the water of life given to those who, without Christ in their lives, find themselves thirsty. In the end of the world model, everything is done, wrapped up, and delivered to God with a nice little bow around it.

 

[ArmyMatt]

What is the EO view of the events in Revelation? Does it take place in the past, future, or both? Will there be a rapture and when?

I’ll add a priest once said anything apocalyptic in Scripture uses events in a specific time, to describe what happens in all time (culminating at the end of time).

 

[Light of the East]

yes to all, although we reject the modern evangelical understanding of the rapture.

So what is the Orthodox view of the Rapture, as you understand it?

 

[ArmyMatt]

So what is the Orthodox view of the Rapture, as you understand it?

that when Christ returns, the righteous will be caught up and meet Him in the clouds.