What is the difference between Mormons and Jehovah's witness?

[The Gregorian]

The translators of the KJV were the best Bible scholars available, educated in the ancient languages, and worked from the original sources. It has stood the test of time and is basically the same in meaning as the best known translations of more recent days, even though the teams of scholars from many different churches who worked on these went back to the originals and did not simply modernize the wording used in the KJV.

It's existed for a long time because it was the only one the church allowed. To look into the translation to check for accuracy was an act of heresy and punishable by death... The fact that the original texts were hidden until this translation was accepted as orthodox is not the same as "standing the test of time" because at this time, when the original language is available and dictionaries are widespread, it's obvious that there are significant errors in that translation.

The idea that the world is flat has also stood the test of time, and was also held as fact by many experts for a very long time.

 

[he-man]

Maybe the Amish are the true believers instead, since they are even less a part of the world than the JWs.

Hear Hear now, the Amish are also conscientious objectors too!

 

[2ducklow]

Hear Hear now, the Amish are also conscientious objectors too!

yea but the Amish don't go door to door. gotta go door to door to be saved. at least 20 hours a week, minimum. Sound like a fun life? I talked to an xJW once, and she said that JW fun is gossiping on others in the JW church. It's the only fun thing they do.

 

[fatboys]

Do we really need a reason, do we need to have an answer to every question. God does things for reasons we may never understand or just simply can not comprehend due the limitations we have mentally we will eventually reach a ceiling where we can't go any further thats where faith comes in. God does not have these limitations and there are just somethings he does not want us to know ether because they are not necessary right now or it is beyond us or part of his secret will. A religion that claims to have all the answers frankly scares me.

When God said to Adam and Eve they had become as one of them notice the word "as" it says as one of them not one of them or will be one of them. they where "as" one of them because of the knowledge of good and evil not what you are implying.

The bible tells us who God is, what he has done for us, and what we need to do. Thats all I need to know right now.

Ya we do. If God created, wouldn't he want us to know why? Now have you ever heard of the saying "strain at a knat and swallow a camel?" Why would not a normal person want to know as much about God as they could? Would that be bad? Look at what man has done with the little information that has been given. Makes you think that perhaps we need a prophet that speaks to God as Moses did.

 

[Seeking His Face]

John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."

John 10:34-36 [34]Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, Ye are gods'? [35]If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; [36] say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, 'Thou blasphemest'; because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?"

John 17:21-23 [21]"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they may also be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. [22]And the glory that thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: [23]I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."

If we are one with Christ, and Christ and the Father are one, then it follows that we and the Father are one as well.

If we are in Christ, and Christ is in us, and Christ is in the Father,and the Father is in Christ, then it follows that we are also in the Father and the Father is in us.

We are gods (note the lowercase G) because we are a part of, and partakers of, God the Father, through the Holy Spirit, and we are joint-heirs of the divine nature through Christ who dwells in us.

Mormons, is this correct according to LDS doctrine?

 

[he-man]

Of course "as".... We are mortals, not yet saved and exalted as the Father.
Further, that's actually what satan also said. Even further, there isn't that "distinction" in the actual Hebrew. Even further, as is as.... If I'm as my father, obviously I'm not exactly the same, but I'm the same enough of the important stuff.
Further, Christ's own words in John 10 and the Law in Psalms 82? is clear.

Sorry but there is no "as" in Gen 3:22 that was added by the translators.
ויאמר יהוה אלהים הן האדם היה כאחד ממנו לדעת טוב ורע ועתה פן-ישלח ידו ולקח גם מעץ החיים ואכל וחי לעלם
Gen 3:22 *Note: "as" "of us" are not in the Hebrew.
Jehovah God said Behold man has become one to know good and evil and now lest he send the hand to take also of the tree of life to eat and to live for ever

KJV And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

 

[timbo3]

Maybe the Amish are the true believers instead, since they are even less a part of the world than the JWs.

Jesus did not say to stay away from people, to isolate oneself, as the Amish have done. Proverbs 18:1 says: "One isolating himself will seek [his own] selfish longing; against all practical wisdom he will break forth." Hence, what pattern did Jesus set ?

Luke 8:1 says that "he went from journeying from city to city and from village to village, preaching and declaring the good news of the kingdom of God." After having chosen his 12 apostles, Jesus then tells them to "go, preach, saying: "The kingdom of the heavens has drawn near."(Matt 10:7) Are the Amish doing this assigned work ?

Just days before his death, Jesus gave an illustration of "a man about to travel abroad, summoned his slaves of his and committed to them his belongings. And to one he gave five talents, to another two, to still another one, to each according to his own ability, and he went abroad."(Matt 25:14, 15) Upon his return, he "came and settled accounts with them".(Matt 25:19)

Two of the slaves "gained....more" talents for his "master". However, one slave who had only "one talent came forward and said: "Master, I knew you to be an exacting man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you did not winnow. So I grew afraid and went off and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours."(Matt 25:24, 25) How did the "master" respond ? Did he say "its okay, I accept your excuse" ?

Verses 26 and 27 says: "In reply his master said to him: "Wicked and sluggish slave, you knew, did you, that I reaped where I did not sow and gathered where I did not winnow ? Well, then, you ought to have deposited my silver monies with the bankers, and on my arrival I would would be receiving what is mine with interest."

Now the "master" sets matters straight, saying: "Therefore take away the talent from him (the "wicked and sluggish slave") and give it to him that has the ten talents." Jesus concludes saying: "For to everyone that has, more will be given and he will have abundance; but as for him that does not have, even what (little) he has will be taken away from him."(Matt 25:28, 29)

The "master" now gives his slaves a command regarding the "wicked and sluggish slave", saying: "And throw the good-for-nothing slave out into the darkness outside. There is where the weeping and gnashing of his teeth will be."(Matt 25:30)

Those unwilling to follow in Jesus "footsteps" (1 Pet 2:21) and use the symbolic ' silver talent' (weighs 654 oz t, $18,872 as of Jan 7, 2012), or kingdom privileges of service that involves disciple-making work (Matt 28:19, 20) are ' thrown out into the darkness outside'.

 

[Albion]

Jesus did not say to stay away from people, to isolate oneself, as the Amish have done.

Maybe that's right, but I don't think it's clearcut that the Amish are as isolated as all that. They interact with the rest of us just about as much as the JWs and some other denominations do.

 

[timbo3]

Maybe that's right, but I don't think it's clearcut that the Amish are as isolated as all that. They interact with the rest of us just about as much as the JWs and some other denominations do.

Yet, are they doing the work Jesus assigned to his disciples, to "go therefore make disciples of peoples of all the nations.....teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you" ?(Matt 28:19, 20)

Are they going "from house to house" as Jesus instructed his apostles, saying: "Into whatever city or village you enter, search out who in it is deserving" ?(Matt 10:11)

Jesus said that during his (invisible) "presence", that he parallels to the "days of Noah" (Matt 24:37-39), that "this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations and then the end will come."(Matt 24:14) Are the Amish seeing that this is done, as Jesus commanded ?

 

[Albion]

Yet, are they doing the work Jesus assigned to his disciples, to "go therefore make disciples of peoples of all the nations.....teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you" ?(Matt 28:19, 20)

Are they going "from house to house" as Jesus instructed his apostles, ?

That seems to me to be a different issue, different from not being "of the world."

 

[timbo3]

That seems to me to be a different issue, different from not being "of the world."

Being "no part of the world" (John 15:19; 17:16) involves doing what Jesus assigned to his disciples, that of ' going and making disciples of people of all the nations......teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.' (Matt 28:19, 20)

The "world" is a composite three piece arrangement, (1) the political governments, (2) greedy commercialism that foments dishonesty and to be a "lover of pleasure"(2 Tim 3:4) (3) and false religion, called at Revelation 17:5, "Babylon the Great", a world wide empire that has its "tentacles" in every facet of human society.

Thus, in order to be "no part of the world", true Christians must recognize that "the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning strongly entrenched things. For we are overturning reasonings and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God; and we are bringing every thought into captivity to make it obedient to the Christ."(2 Cor 10:4, 5)

Thus, a true Christian ' overturns strongly entrenched things raised up against the knowledge of God', exposing it for what it really is, as a lie, and following in Jesus "footsteps" (1 Pet 2:21), seeking to teach people the truth about our heavenly Father, Jehovah God (John 8:32), as Jesus did.(John 17:6, 26) but which neither the Amish nor Mormons do.

Because false religious teachings and doctrines are so "strongly entrenched", it has held sway over the masses of people for millennia. The churches have led their "flock" down the road that is "broad and spacious"(Matt 7:13), whereby the approximately 38,000 different religious sects of Christendom now exist, saying that "all roads lead to salvation". The ' narrow gate' or ' cramped road ' is one in which the churches have avoided, due to its very "strictness", "lack of room".(Matt 7:14)

Jesus said: "Not everyone saying to me, 'Lord ! Lord !, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens., but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will."(Matt 7:21) He further said: "Exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able."(Luke 13:24)

 

[proveallthings]

This belief also includes the possibility and hope of personal exaltation (become a god) provided they are male and meet the necessary requirements.

Mordecai,
You were mostly accurate in what you identified as LDS beliefs. I feel I need to correct one thing that was blatantly false, however. Mormons believe that men and women are equal in their opportunities for exaltation. A man cannot reach godhood without being perfectly one with a woman and visa versa.

 

[Blackmarch]

Sorry but there is no "as" in Gen 3:22 that was added by the translators.
ויאמר יהוה אלהים הן האדם היה כאחד ממנו לדעת טוב ורע ועתה פן-ישלח ידו ולקח גם מעץ החיים ואכל וחי לעלם
Gen 3:22 *Note: "as" "of us" are not in the Hebrew.
Jehovah God said Behold man has become one to know good and evil and now lest he send the hand to take also of the tree of life to eat and to live for ever

KJV And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Become one ... of what?
In fact i think the use of "become one" is much more direct about what they become, wheras the word "as" can imply a great similarity but still have a seperateness to it.

Trasnslating is more than just making sure you have equivalent words in the right places, it involves getting the concept across. And in this case i think the translators were correct, unless some very significant context was missing. The wordage used by the devil was describing that very aspect to God or the gods, and then God pretty much confirms what the devil said about knowing good and evil.... before going on to refute what the serpent said about them dying.

 

[Blackmarch]

John 10:30 "I and my Father are one."

John 10:34-36 [34]Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your law, 'I said, Ye are gods'? [35]If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; [36] say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, 'Thou blasphemest'; because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?"

John 17:21-23 [21]"That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they may also be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. [22]And the glory that thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: [23]I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."

If we are one with Christ, and Christ and the Father are one, then it follows that we and the Father are one as well.

If we are in Christ, and Christ is in us, and Christ is in the Father,and the Father is in Christ, then it follows that we are also in the Father and the Father is in us.

We are gods (note the lowercase G) because we are a part of, and partakers of, God the Father, through the Holy Spirit, and we are joint-heirs of the divine nature through Christ who dwells in us.

Mormons, is this correct according to LDS doctrine?

very similar, close enough that i'd agree with it. we cannot become like God without him, nor can we leave him and remain so.

Probably the most difference i can think of is that the LDS side has an individualistic context that retains some identity of self, whereas the other side appears to lose that self in God.

The best example of what we'll be like is Christ- How Christ's relationship to the Father is, our relationship will become like in relationship to the Son and through him, to the Father. Supposing we do all that is necessary to enter into that relationship.

 

[bbbbbbb]

very similar, close enough that i'd agree with it. we cannot become like God without him, nor can we leave him and remain so.

Probably the most difference i can think of is that the LDS side has an individualistic context that retains some identity of self, whereas the other side appears to lose that self in God.

The best example of what we'll be like is Christ- How Christ's relationship to the Father is, our relationship will become like in relationship to the Son and through him, to the Father. Supposing we do all that is necessary to enter into that relationship.

Precisely, according to you, what is it that we must do that is "necessary to enter into that relationship"?

 

[Blackmarch]

Precisely, according to you, what is it that we must do that is "necessary to enter into that relationship"?

every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God.

 

[Albion]

Being "no part of the world" (John 15:19; 17:16) involves doing what Jesus assigned to his disciples, that of ' going and making disciples of people of all the nations......teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.'

Interesting. Most churches believe that being in the world but not of the world means being active in secular society but not absorbed into the worldly pleasures and diversions that are popular with non-believers.

 

[he-man]

Become one ... of what?

Become one ... of what? Become a person, that is one who knows the difference between what is good and what is evil.

Gen 3:22 *Note: "as" "of us" are not in the Hebrew.
Jehovah God said Behold man has become one to know good and evil and now lest he send the hand to take also of the tree of life to eat and to live for ever

The wordage used by the devil was describing that very aspect to God or the gods, and then God pretty much confirms what the devil said about knowing good and evil.... before going on to refute what the serpent said about them dying.

If your devil is crawling on its belly and eating dust, it would be unable to fly around tempting people.

Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the adversary [serpent], Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

Not to mention the fact that since there is no literal devil, it was God speaking through an adversary to Adam & Eve, the same as when the Lord used the donkey to speak to Balaam.
Not only did the donkey speak, but engaged in a long conversation with Balaam who answered the donkey and before he even knew it was an angel.
Num 22:22-35
Num 22:22 And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him.

Num 22:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?

29 And Balaam said unto the donkey, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee.

30 And the donkey said unto Balaam, Am not I thine donkey, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay.

31 Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face.

32 And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine donkey these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me:

33 And the donkey saw me, and turned from me these three times: unless she had turned from me, surely now also I had slain thee, and saved her alive.

Num 22:34 And Balaam said unto the angel of the LORD, I have sinned; for I knew not that thou stoodest in the way against me: now therefore, if it displease thee, I will get me back again.

35 And the angel of the LORD said unto Balaam, Go with the men: but only the word that I shall speak unto thee, that thou shalt speak. So Balaam went with the princes of Balak.

 

[bbbbbbb]

every word that proceedeth from the mouth of God.

I take it that this includes all four Standard Works of the LDS. If so, then why is that no LDS has yet to keep the Sabbath holy according to God's explicit directions?

 

[Blackmarch]

I take it that this includes all four Standard Works of the LDS. If so, then why is that no LDS has yet to keep the Sabbath holy according to God's explicit directions?

Check the old thread where you asked this.