What is the difference between Mormons and Jehovah's witness?

[he-man]

"Elohim is actually the Father's official name.
You guys misinterpret the scripture."

אֱלהִים transliterated as "Elohim" Is not a name it is a title and means "The God" when it is used with singular verbs or adjectives. When it is used with plural verbs and adjectives it means "gods" or "powers".

Nowhere in the Tanakh or in any other Hebrew sacred writings is "Elohim" ever used or even considered as a name.

The only proper name for God is יְהֹוָה which out of respect we usually don't voice instead using the words אֲדֹנָי Adonai (lord) or אֱלהִים Elohim (God) and some Orthodox even go so far as to say simply השם HaShem (The Name) in order to not use the name of God disrespectfully.

If your church cannot even interpret this simple Hebrew word correctly why should we believe anything else your religion has to say?

Exactly what I have tried to tell them but they do not listen.

 

[ldsfaqs]

"Elohim is actually the Father's official name.
You guys misinterpret the scripture."

אֱלהִים transliterated as "Elohim" Is not a name it is a title and means "The God" when it is used with singular verbs or adjectives. When it is used with plural verbs and adjectives it means "gods" or "powers".

Nowhere in the Tanakh or in any other Hebrew sacred writings is "Elohim" ever used or even considered as a name.

The only proper name for God is יְהֹוָה which out of respect we usually don't voice instead using the words אֲדֹנָי Adonai (lord) or אֱלהִים Elohim (God) and some Orthodox even go so far as to say simply השם HaShem (The Name) in order to not use the name of God disrespectfully.

If your church cannot even interpret this simple Hebrew word correctly why should we believe anything else your religion has to say?

That's why I used the term "OFFICIAL" name..... Because that's the "TITLE" God the Father goes by. Jehovah is the Lord i.e. Christ, etc. etc. I was contesting against a JW's claim that "Jehovah" is actually God, when it's not, it's Christ.

What part of that do you not understand?

 

[ldsfaqs]

Exactly what I have tried to tell them but they do not listen.

Read above please and understand.... I don't disagree!
I was not referring it as being his "personal" name. I was using NAME in a "general" sense. Anyone with common sense should have understood the point, especially in context of my conversation. After all, no one has ever known God's "actual" name if he has one, thus the contention against me is straining at nats while swallowing the camel.

One other thing, while the "President" is a Title, isn't it also a name, especially if we don't actually know the Presidents name? Isn't a Title a "type" of name? Yes it is. Thus, let's stop with the games, and focus on the relevant conversation please.

 

[he-man]

That's why I used the term "OFFICIAL" name..... Because that's the "TITLE" God the Father goes by. Jehovah is the Lord i.e. Christ, etc. etc. I was contesting against a JW's claim that "Jehovah" is actually God, when it's not, it's Christ.

What part of that do you not understand?

What part of NO don't you understand?

 

[Albion]

The difference between LDS and JW is often described as being between a non-Christian religion that has many similarities to Christianity and a strange, unorthodox form of Christianity but a variety of Christianity just the same.

 

[timbo3]

What is your definition of "God's kingdom?" Do Catholics and Protestants direct people towards God's kingdom?

God's kingdom is a heavenly government (Matt 13:11, 24, 31, 44, 45, 47) that Jehovah God arranged for immediately following the rebellion of Adam in the Garden of Eden.(Gen 3:15) It is made up of 144,001 individuals chosen from the earth, with Jesus Christ being the first one selected by being anointed with holy spirit.(Matt 3:16, 17) Jesus is the primary "seed" (Gal 3:16) of the symbolic "woman"(Isa 60:1, Jehovah's celestial organization of loyal angels or "Jerusalem above", Gal 4:26) that will "bruise the serpent (or Satan) in the head".(Gen 3:15; 1 John 3:8)

The apostle Paul wrote that "Christ (is) the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death.....For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. But each one in his rank: Christ the firstfruits, afterwards those who belong to the Christ during his presence."(1 Cor 15:20, 22, 23, "presence", Greek parousia)

With his perfect blood (Heb 9:12), Jesus "bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth."(Rev 5:9, 10) These number 144,000, for at Revelation 14:1, 4, there is seen standing with the "Lamb....a hundred and forty-four thousand having his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads....These were bought from among mankind as firstfruits to God and to the Lamb."

This number of 144,00 is "sealed", a specific number, unlike the churches of Christendom that says that "all good people go to heaven". At Revelation 7:4, the apostle John says that "I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of (spiritual) Israel".

This heavenly government or God's kingdom was created for the sole purpose of restoring what Adam lost as a perfect man, of his offspring (those who are "meek", Matt 5:5) enjoying life forever on a paradise earth.(Gen 1:28, 31; Luke 23:43) The apostle Peter told the Jews on Pentecost that "Jesus, whom heaven, indeed, must hold within itself until the times of restoration of all things of which God spoke through the mouth of his holy prophets of old time."(Acts 3:20, 21)

Over the course of 4000 years from the rebellion in the Garden of Eden, features of the "sacred secrets (Greek mysteria) of the kingdom of the heavens" (Matt 13:11) was unveiled gradually through the "prophets of old time" concerning the "restoration of all things".

Jesus provided details that helped to complete the revealing of the kingdom, using a series of illustrations to teach features concerning it.(Matt 13) Eventually, those who make it up and how many would be chosen or selected and from where was revealed. The apostle Paul wrote that "in accord with the good news I declare and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the sacred secret (Greek mysteriou) which has been kept in silence for long-lasting times."(Rom 16:25)

At Genesis 49:9, 10, it identifies that through the tribe of Judah would come forth the one designated for rulership of God's kingdom, saying that "the scepter will not turn aside from Judah, neither the commander's staff from beneath his feet, until Shiloh (means "He to Whom It Belongs") comes; and to him the obedience of the peoples will belong."

Some 1000 years later, Isaiah 9:6 says that "there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule (Hebrew misrah, "government", KJV) will come to be upon his shoulder." Then, about 150 years later, Ezekiel wrote that "this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ' Remove the turban ("diadem", KJV), and lift off the crown. This will not be the same. Put on high even what is low, and bring low even the high one. A ruin, a ruin, a ruin I shall make it. As for this also, it will certainly become no one's until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it him."(Eze 21:26, 27)

Then, in 2 B.C.E., the angel Gabriel approached young Mary, saying to her that "you will conceive in your womb and give birth to a son, and you are to call his name Jesus. This one will be great and will be called Son of the Most High; and Jehovah God will give him the throne of David his father, and he will rule as king over the house of Jacob forever, and there will be no end of his kingdom." (Luke 1:31-33) Thus, God's kingdom is a heavenly government with Jesus as it's king, carrying it "upon his shoulder", and 144, 000 as corulers or "joint heirs" with Jesus.(Rom 8:17)

No, Catholics and Protestants do not direct people toward God's kingdom, with the Catholic church being loaded down with "commands of men as doctrines"(Matt 15:9), and such religious falsehoods as eternal torment, purgatory, and "all good people go to heaven." Of Protestants, these also teach many of the same doctrines as the Catholic church, but add also that Jesus must be your "personal savior" and make no serious mention of God's kingdom.

 

[he-man]

God's kingdom is a heavenly government (Matt 13:11, 24, 31, 44, 45, 47) that Jehovah God arranged for immediately following the rebellion of Adam in the Garden of Eden.(Gen 3:15)

Thy Kingdom come ...on Earth not a heavenly abode but heaven ON EARTH.
Rom 4:17 Abraam who is a father of all of us even as it has been written That a father of many nations have placed thee in presence of whom he believed of God of that making alive dead ones and calling the things not being as being
18 Who contrary to hope in hope believed in order that to have become him a father of many nations according to that having been spoken Thus shall be the seed of thee
19 And not having grown weak in the faith he regarded the body of himself having been deadened
being thereabouts an hundred years old and the deadness of the womb of Sarah
20 In the promise of the God he did not dispute in unbelief but was made strong in the faith giving glory to the God
21 And having been fully assured that what has been promised is also possible to do
17 ¶ (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara’s womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

The Kingdom of God
But more blessed still shall be their rulers and the rulers of the nations; for they shall not die any more (Luke 20:36), and they shall inherit the land for ever. But, ultimately, death will be abolished in all the earth. Its subjugation, however, comes last in order: all other enemies are got out of the way first; and then the greatest and most formidable is removed for ever. On what principle? Seeing that all the saved pertaining to this and past dispensations will be admitted to eternal life at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, and associated with him in the government of the world, on what principle are the mortal subjects of Messiah's reign to be dealt with, so as to admit of their participation in the glorious gift of immortality? We are admitted to the answer in Rev. 20:7-15.

"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city; and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Here we have a predicted insurrection at the close of the millennium, which is allowed to gather strength, and come to a head, and which is then to be summarily suppressed by an outburst of divine judgment at "the beloved city "--Jerusalem. This is followed by a general judgment. Now who are arraigned at this judgment? It cannot be the saints who have been associated with Christ in government during the previous thousand years, who at the beginning of his reign have been welcomed as "good and faithful servants" into his joy. These have been judged already. They appeared before his judgment-seat at his coming, and gave an account, and were dealt with accordingly.

Obviously those who have lived during the thousand years. Rev. 21:8, "All liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH." Here, the lake of fire is introduced to us as a symbol signifying the second death.

"The day that cometh," says Malachi (chapter 4:1), "shall burn them up, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." And David's declaration is, that "The enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs. They shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away" (Psa. 37:20).

How appropriate a symbol of such a fate is a lake of fire. The only conception we can have of such a thing is supplied by the pools of incandescent iron to be seen at blast furnaces. Throw an animal into one of these pools, and what is the result? Instant annihilation.

Not a vestige of the creature's substance survives the action of the destructive element. Complete, and immediate, and irretrievable destruction, then, is the idea suggested by a lake of fire; and how appropriate is such a symbol to signify the second death, which will destroy, with double destruction, even "soul and body" (Matt. 10:28).

It will thus be seen that the kingdom of the thousand years is but a transitional period between the purely animal and purely spiritual ages. It will blend the elements of both.

It will exhibit the perfection of the eternal ages in the Lord Jesus and the saints who will be immortal and incorruptible, and the imperfection of the human. age in the mortal population who will constitute the subjects of their rule. Both will co-exist for a thousand years, and will constitute a state of things as superior to the present dispensation as it will be inferior to the glory ages beyond.

The Kingdom of God will lead us by a bridge of a thousand years from the age of sin and death defection to the age of restoration to the bosom of the Deity, in righteousness and life eternal.

 

[Rescued One]

No, Catholics and Protestants do not direct people toward God's kingdom, with the Catholic church being loaded down with "commands of men as doctrines"(Matt 15:9), and such religious falsehoods as eternal torment, purgatory, and "all good people go to heaven." Of Protestants, these also teach many of the same doctrines as the Catholic church, but add also that Jesus must be your "personal savior" and make no serious mention of God's kingdom.

And here JWs are in agreement with LDS.

I am NOT LDS. However, I spent many years in that organization.

In order to enter God's Kingdom, a person must be born again by the Spirit of God.

 

[ldsfaqs]

Originally Posted by timbo3

No, Catholics and Protestants do not direct people toward God's kingdom, with the Catholic church being loaded down with "commands of men as doctrines"(Matt 15:9), and such religious falsehoods as eternal torment, purgatory, and "all good people go to heaven." Of Protestants, these also teach many of the same doctrines as the Catholic church, but add also that Jesus must be your "personal savior" and make no serious mention of God's kingdom.​

And here JWs are in agreement with LDS.

Not quite....

First, Catholics actually DO direct it members toward the Lords Kingdom on the earth, as being represented by the Holy Church. Although, they don't generally use the "word" Kingdom, they do teach a similar concept.

Second, LDS DO have a doctrine of "all good people go to heaven".

Third, every religion believes that Christ must be our personal savior. Thus, he was likely just adding that to differentiate Catholic and Protestant, though not accurately actually.

 

[lismore]

Wow. Thanks to everyone who replied!

 

[Rescued One]

<Staff Edit>

First, Catholics actually DO direct it members toward the Lords Kingdom on the earth, as being represented by the Holy Church. Although, they don't generally use the "word" Kingdom, they do teach a similar concept.

Second, LDS DO have a doctrine of "all good people go to heaven".

Third, every religion believes that Christ must be our personal savior. Thus, he was likely just adding that to differentiate Catholic and Protestant, though not accurately actually.

Why aren't you familiar with your own church's doctrine?

Doctrine and Covenants 65:5&#8211;6 &#8212;What Is the Difference between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven?
Elder JamesE. Talmage, who was a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, explained:

&#8220;The expression &#8216;Kingdom of God&#8217; is used synonymously with the term &#8216;Church of Christ&#8217;; but the Lord had made plain that He sometimes used the term &#8216;Kingdom of Heaven&#8217; in a distinctive sense. In 1832 He called attention to that in these words, addressing Himself to the elders of the Church: [see D&C 65:1&#8211;6 ].

&#8220;Such was the prayer, such is the prayer, prescribed for this people to pray, not to utter in words only, not to say only, but to pray&#8212;that the Kingdom of God may roll forth in the earth to prepare the earth for the coming of the Kingdom of Heaven. That provision in the Lord&#8217;s prayer, &#8216;Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven&#8217; has not been abrogated. We are praying for the Kingdom of Heaven to come, and are endeavoring to prepare the earth for its coming. The Kingdom of God, already set up upon the earth ...
Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Seminary Student Study Guide - Doctrine and Covenants 65 - The Kingdom of God on Earth Prepares the Way for the Kingdom of Heaven

IOW, kingdom of God on earth means "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

Second, LDS DO have a doctrine of "all good people go to heaven".

Please define "all good people" and "heaven." Thank you.

 

[Rescued One]

Wow. Thanks to everyone who replied!

You're very welcome!

 

[JoJo50]

Hello

What's the difference? They both canvas doors, stop people on streets and present a new gospel. So what's the difference?

Instead of going to many who think they know. Maybe you should go to those who do know, a Witness and a Mormons. I don’t know what Mormons believe or don’t. I don’t tend to focus on that. I do know they do door visits, though not as much as we do. I’m sure if they did, there would be many door jokes.

Many say Jesus wasn’t Michael in Heaven, or even called Michael, (meaning Christians period)!, But ONLY Jesus is called Prince, (Dan.12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book). this IS Jesus!

the true followers of Jesus ,( in EVERY religion, there are those, who’s straddling the fence), don’t celebrate Christmas. Because Jesus never taught his followers to do so, man did! I don’t know IF the mormons do Christmas. But the guys I’ve talked with, said we shouldn’t keep Christmas from the kids. “ you celebrated Christmas when you were a kid…right?!

we don't teach anything "new" we teach what many refuse to teach. which is what's always been taught. and even then, many refuse to hear. peace

 

[ldsfaqs]

Why aren't you familiar with your own church's doctrine?

Oh I don't know....<Staff Edit>

Oh I don't know....

Doctrine and Covenants 65:5&#8211;6 &#8212;What Is the Difference between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven?
Elder JamesE. Talmage, who was a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, explained:

&#8220;The expression &#8216;Kingdom of God&#8217; is used synonymously with the term &#8216;Church of Christ&#8217;; but the Lord had made plain that He sometimes used the term &#8216;Kingdom of Heaven&#8217; in a distinctive sense. In 1832 He called attention to that in these words, addressing Himself to the elders of the Church: [see D&C 65:1&#8211;6 ].

&#8220;Such was the prayer, such is the prayer, prescribed for this people to pray, not to utter in words only, not to say only, but to pray&#8212;that the Kingdom of God may roll forth in the earth to prepare the earth for the coming of the Kingdom of Heaven. That provision in the Lord&#8217;s prayer, &#8216;Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven&#8217; has not been abrogated. We are praying for the Kingdom of Heaven to come, and are endeavoring to prepare the earth for its coming. The Kingdom of God, already set up upon the earth ...
Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Seminary Student Study Guide - Doctrine and Covenants 65 - The Kingdom of God on Earth Prepares the Way for the Kingdom of Heaven

Nothing here disagrees with anything I've said.

IOW, kingdom of God on earth means "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

Tell us something we don't know?
Still doesn't change anything I've said.
I've already said, we are the authorized Church, the literal kingdom of God on the earth. Still doesn't change the fact of Christ's words in Mark 9 & Luke 9 concerning "other believers" who weren't with the Church being also his, and likewise still doesn't change the fact that LDS have the SAME theology as Christ as those words of HIS.

<Staff Edit>

Please define "all good people" and "heaven." Thank you.

I've already defined these ideas in this thread, clarifying LDS doctrine for you, as well as me and others doing the same for you many times before. You know what we said.

 

[Rescued One]

Oh I don't know.... <Staff Edit>

I don't aspire to be a goddess. It is Mormonism that claims individuals are gods in embryo who should rise to the divinity within themselves.

"Rise to the divinity within you."

That concluding statement by President Gordon B. Hinckley capsulized the messages that members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints heard during the two-day, 172nd Semi-annual Conference of the church.
LDS Church News - 'Rise to divinity within you,' LDS members urged

LDS who not only converted to the Church, but were enemy's of it, thus HAD to really know it to come back to it, and LDS who live and study their religion EVERY DAY<Staff Edit>.

This is something you obviously enjoy --- reading what ex-LDS post at this site and what orthodox Christians post. You keep returning! Your actions tell me you either love our posts or you love to hate them. Either way you're enjoying yourself.

May God soften your heart.

 

[fatboys]

I don't aspire to be a goddess. It is Mormonism that claims individuals are gods in embryo who should rise to the divinity within themselves.

"Rise to the divinity within you."

That concluding statement by President Gordon B. Hinckley capsulized the messages that members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints heard during the two-day, 172nd Semi-annual Conference of the church.
LDS Church News - 'Rise to divinity within you,' LDS members urged




This is something you obviously enjoy --- reading what ex-LDS post at this site and what orthodox Christians post. You keep returning! Your actions tell me you either love our posts or you love to hate them. Either way you're enjoying yourself.

May God soften your heart.

Is God self serving? Can man be self serving and be Christ like? We are gods in embryo. Why else would God create man and tell us to be like him? Without progression to become like the Father, what else can be our purpose than to serve God alone? Is that not self serving?

 

[RufustheRed]

Is God self serving?

No. Why would He be?

Can man be self serving and be Christ like?

No. Are you trying to say that we do things because we think God will reward us? If so, that's pretty poor theology, IMO. I believe that Christians follow Jesus because he is the author and finisher of our faith. The Bible tells us why, "We love him, because he first loved us." That's not self-serving.

We are gods in embryo.

Nope! We are not embryonic gods. Never can be and never will be. We are embryonic humans. We descend from the human family originated with Adam and Eve.

Why else would God create man and tell us to be like him?

Best answer? Because He wanted to. He wants his creation to be Holy, to be kind, to be loving, be compassionate, etc. He does NOT want us to take His place because no one can be like Him. Isaiah 43:10 proclaims quite clearly "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Without progression to become like the Father,

It sound like you are not happy with God's creation. Why is that? You can try to be like God, if you wish, and that is commendable AND Biblical. BUT, no matter how hard you try you will never be God. You will never have the spiritual and/or physical attributes. It is folly attempt to put yourself in a throne reserved for God.

what else can be our purpose than to serve God alone?

What, may I ask, is wrong with serving God alone?

[fatboys]Is that not self serving?[/quote]

Again, NO!
I don't how you can call that "self serving" unless you have selfish reasons for obeying God. It is a matter of attitude, IMO. Like the Bible says ... because He first loved us.

Have Happy New Year, Fatboys.


Rufus

 

[RufustheRed]

We are not gods in embryo. God created us to live forever, to know God personally, to reflect his character - his love - through human relationships, and to exercise dominion over the rest of the living creatures on earth.

 

[he-man]

Not quite....

First, Catholics actually DO direct it members toward the Lords Kingdom on the earth, as being represented by the Holy Church. Although, they don't generally use the "word" Kingdom, they do teach a similar concept.
Second, LDS DO have a doctrine of "all good people go to heaven".
Third, every religion believes that Christ must be our personal savior. Thus, he was likely just adding that to differentiate Catholic and Protestant, though not accurately actually.

Thy Kingdom come ...on Earth not a heavenly abode but heaven ON EARTH.
Rom 4:17 ¶ (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara&#8217;s womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

The Kingdom of God
But more blessed still shall be their rulers and the rulers of the nations; for they shall not die any more (Luke 20:36), and they shall inherit the land for ever. But, ultimately, death will be abolished in all the earth. Its subjugation, however, comes last in order: all other enemies are got out of the way first; and then the greatest and most formidable is removed for ever. On what principle? Seeing that all the saved pertaining to this and past dispensations will be admitted to eternal life at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, and associated with him in the government of the world, on what principle are the mortal subjects of Messiah's reign to be dealt with, so as to admit of their participation in the glorious gift of immortality? We are admitted to the answer in Rev. 20:7-15.

"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city; and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Here we have a predicted insurrection at the close of the millennium, which is allowed to gather strength, and come to a head, and which is then to be summarily suppressed by an outburst of divine judgment at "the beloved city "--Jerusalem. This is followed by a general judgment. Now who are arraigned at this judgment? It cannot be the saints who have been associated with Christ in government during the previous thousand years, who at the beginning of his reign have been welcomed as "good and faithful servants" into his joy. These have been judged already. They appeared before his judgment-seat at his coming, and gave an account, and were dealt with accordingly.

Obviously those who have lived during the thousand years. Rev. 21:8, "All liars shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, WHICH IS THE SECOND DEATH." Here, the lake of fire is introduced to us as a symbol signifying the second death.

"The day that cometh," says Malachi (chapter 4:1), "shall burn them up, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." And David's declaration is, that "The enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs. They shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away" (Psa. 37:20).

How appropriate a symbol of such a fate is a lake of fire. The only conception we can have of such a thing is supplied by the pools of incandescent iron to be seen at blast furnaces. Throw an animal into one of these pools, and what is the result? Instant annihilation.

Not a vestige of the creature's substance survives the action of the destructive element. Complete, and immediate, and irretrievable destruction, then, is the idea suggested by a lake of fire; and how appropriate is such a symbol to signify the second death, which will destroy, with double destruction, even "soul and body" (Matt. 10:28).

It will thus be seen that the kingdom of the thousand years is but a transitional period between the purely animal and purely spiritual ages. It will blend the elements of both.

It will exhibit the perfection of the eternal ages in the Lord Jesus and the saints who will be immortal and incorruptible, and the imperfection of the human. age in the mortal population who will constitute the subjects of their rule. Both will co-exist for a thousand years, and will constitute a state of things as superior to the present dispensation as it will be inferior to the glory ages beyond.

The Kingdom of God will lead us by a bridge of a thousand years from the age of sin and death defection to the age of restoration to the bosom of the Deity, in righteousness and life eternal.

 

[timbo3]

Actually we believe BOTH, because that is what the scriptures teach, including the Bible.
If you are only believing what you stated and not the first, then you follow man-made doctrine, rather than what the Bible in full teaches.

That's right, which along with the above and more, we are not Trinitarians but believe Christ and the Father are "separate beings".

Well, yes, he is a "spirit son" of God, as we all are, but he also is one of the Godhead, thus "God" in that sense, when he acts on the Fathers Will. He also is the Only Begotten Son, meaning the only Spirit Child of His to be sirred by him as a mortal. Not through sex like our enemy's pervert, but through the Holy Ghost, i.e. Father's seed placed into Mary or similar.

Buzz false.... All scripture has equal weight to LDS. Recognizing how the Bible came to be, how it's not the end all to God's word, nor perfect in his word, doesn't mean it's not just as important. Yes, other scripture and revelations clarify some things, but not the same thing. Further, who are you to talk? You've removed whole sections of the Bible simply because you didn't like them.

haa haa.... You say it's "God's word ALONE", and then you quote a scripture that says "ALL SCRIPTURE is inspired of God....."
Problem here is that the Bible doesn't say anywhere that it is ALONE, or the end all to God's Word. Your scripture quote even implies such.

Ya, that's actually Christ speaking to Moses with the name Jehovah.
Elohim is actually the Father's official name.
You guys misinterpret the scripture.

We believe in three that is the Godhead, as the Bible teaches.
We don't believe in the Nicene Trinity. It's non-Biblical.

If Jehovah is that, then who is "Elohim".....?
Again, you misinterpret the scripture, and it's one of the reasons why you don't recognize Jesus as ALSO "God" when he's serving in the Godhead as Jehovah, relating to the first section of my comments to you, and just above.

Anyway, hope I've clarified some things for you....

To start off, I have noticed that you provide only an "IMO" or "in my opinion", never giving firm backing to your position from the Bible, unlike Jesus who said "It is written" to show that what he said was backed by Jehovah God.(Matt 4:4, 7, 10) This provides no credibility. When the Jewish religious leaders confronted Jesus, they either twisted the meaning of the Hebrew Scriptures or they just condemned Jesus outright.(Matt 12:1, 2, 9-14)

The Mormons give only lip service to the Bible, relegating it below the Book of Mormons. In effect, what they are doing is saying that Jehovah God is incapable of producing his word without corruption, that it is faulty. Yet, Jesus, speaking of the 39 books of the Hebrew Scriptures and quoting from Deuteronomy 8:3, said that "man must live, not on bread alone, but on every utterance coming forth through Jehovah's mouth."(Matt 4:4) It does not say "the mouth of the Lord" (KJV) but Jehovah's mouth.

Jesus cannot be "the Eternal God" and at the same time say that "Father is greater than I am."(John 14:28) That Jesus is subservient to Jehovah God is seen in what Jesus said: "I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me I speak these things. And he that sent me is with me; he did not abandon me to myself, because I always do the things pleasing to him."(John 8:28, 29)

Further, the apostle Matthew quoted from Isaiah 42:1, whereby God prophetically says of Jesus his son: "Look ! My servant whom I chose, my beloved, whom my soul approved ! I will put my spirit upon him."(Matt 12:18)

Thus, Jesus is called Jehovah's "servant", "my beloved" who has received his Father's approval and his spirit. This alone rules out his being "the Eternal God". He is not equal in power or authority as his Father, for even after he told his apostles that "all authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth" following his resurrection (Matt 28:18), the apostle Paul wrote that "Christ, in turn, belongs to God"(1 Cor 3:23) and "the head of the Christ is God."(1 Cor 11:3)

Jesus furthermore said in prayer to his Father: "This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ."(John 17:3) There is thus no other God but one, Jehovah, that is Almighty.(Gen 17:1; Rev 15:3)

What Mormon prophet Lorenzo Snow (1814-1901) once said, that "As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may become", contradicts emphatically the Bible. Jehovah God had no beginning (Ps 90:2), nor was a man, but rather is the "Grand Creator" of all the universe.(Ec 12:1, "Grand Creator", Hebrew Boh·re’ey´kha. The participle of the Hebrew verb “create” is plural to denote grandeur or excellence)

And man will never become "as God now is", for Jehovah God is alone the "one true God."(John 17:3) Samuel told king Saul after his disobeying Jehovah's command concerning the Amalekites, that "the Excellency of Israel....is not an earthling man so as to feel regrets."(1 Sam 15:29)

Of Jesus, the apostle Paul wrote that he is "the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation."(Col 1:15) Hence, Jesus had a beginning, being Jehovah's firstborn, for Paul also uses the word firstborn concerning Jesus again at Hebrew 1:6, saying: "But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: "And all of God's angels do obeisance to him."

According to Doctrines and Covenants 130:22, it says that "the Father has a body of flesh, and bones as tangible as man's." This again contradicts Jesus words, that "God is a Spirit."(John 4:23) The apostle Paul wrote that after Jesus resurrection, he became "a life-giving spirit."(1 Cor 15:45) When there was a discussion of Jehovah God and his angels of how king Ahab could be fooled, the Bible account says that "a spirit came out and stood before Jehovah."(1 Kings 22:21; 2 Chron 18:20)

At Psalms 104:4, it says that Jehovah God is "making his angels spirits." And at 1 Corinthians 15:50, the apostle Paul says that "flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom neither does corruption inherit incorruption." Thus, within the heavenly realm where God resides, only spirits exist, not flesh and blood.(1 Cor 15:50)

And concerning God's name, at Exodus 3:14, 15, Moses was told by God as to the meaning of his name: "I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE.”(Heb., &#1492;&#1497;&#1492;&#1488; &#1512;&#1513;&#1488; &#1492;&#1497;&#1492;&#1488; [’Eh·yeh´ ’Asher´ ’Eh·yeh´], God’s own self-designation) And he added: “This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to YOU.’” Then God said once more to Moses: "This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name ("name", Hebrew shem) to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation."

At Isaiah 42:8, God says: "I am Jehovah. That is my name ("name", Hebrew shem meaning "an appellation, as a mark or memorial of individuality", Strong's H8034); and to no one else shall I give my own glory, neither my praise to graven images."

Hence, God's name is not Elohim, for this means "God" or "gods" in Hebrew, being in plural, and when used of our Creator, denotes excellence or majesty and is a title, not his personal name. In fact, Elohim often follows Jehovah in many scriptures, such as twenty times at Genesis 2 and 3 alone.

The divine name, Jehovah, is the name God gave himself and not someone else, is revered by Jehovah's Witnesses just as Jesus revered it, placing the sanctifying or being made holy, first in the Lord's prayer, saying: "Let your name (Greek onoma) be sanctified."(Matt 6:9)

Psalms 148:13 says: "Let them praise the name of Jehovah, for his name is unreachably high. His dignity is above earth and heaven." True Christians "praise the name of Jehovah" as the Psalmist was inspired to write and as Jesus did.

And your saying that "All scripture has equal weight to the LDS", that how "the Bible" is "not the end to God's word, nor perfect in his word" is saying volumes, in effect your saying that Mormons might elevate the Bible "to the LDS" and not that Mormons see the "LDS" as equal weight to the Bible, putting what Joseph Smith wrote ahead of the Bible and that the Bible is flawed, and needs to corrected by additional books.

At Revelation 22:18, 19, Jesus says that "I am bearing witness to everyone that hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone makes an addition to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life and out of the holy city, things which are written about in this scroll."

The Bible canon was complete with the book of Revelation (written in about 96 C.E.) and the other four books (John, 1 John, 2 John and 3 John) written by the apostle John.(in about 98 C.E.)