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Featured What is the Day of the Lord?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Quasar92, Jul 23, 2017.

  1. Quasar92

    Quasar92 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My search for the post of BAB2berean on this subject came up empty. So the following is my reply.

    THE DAY OF THE LORD

    The Scriptures have much to say about “the day of the Lord,” but precisely what is the day of the Lord?

    Generally speaking, of course, it refers to the time when the day of man, or “the times of the Gentiles,” will be brought to an end and “the Lord alone shall be exalted” (Isa. 2:11,17). But will it include more than the actual return and reign of Christ? Will it include the prophesied tribulation period, during which God will bring Gentile rule to an end? We believe it will.

    One pastor who teaches that the Body of Christ will go through the tribulation and that its Rapture to be with Christ will follow the tribulation, writes:

    “The day of the Lord follows the tribulation and it is the day of the Lord’s wrath upon those who `know not God and obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ’ (II Thes. 1:8). It comes as `a thief in the night,’ which is not so with the tribulation.”

    But this interpretation does not take into account all that is said in Scripture about the day of the Lord—and contradicts some of it.

    When our Lord returns to earth in person, “in flaming fire taking vengeance” and “punishing” with “everlasting destruction,” He will evidently dispatch His enemies forthwith. There is no evidence that this will cover a protracted period of time. Paul, describing the arrival of the day of the Lord in I Thessalonians 5:1-3 says nothing about the personal return of Christ, but he does describe a protracted period of suffering and trouble. Read this statement carefully:

    “The day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night, for when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”

    First, note that the phrase “thief in the night” is not used to describe suddenness, but unexpectedness. The thief plans his visit for the time when he will be least expected. This phrase is so used of our Lord’s return to earth in Matthew 24:43,44. But I Thessalonians 5:1-3 states that the “destruction” of “the day of the Lord” will also come as “a thief in the night.”

    The Antichrist will have made a seven-year covenant with Israel and the world will enjoy three and a half years of “peace and safety.” Then, unexpectedly, he will break the covenant and defile the temple, plunging the nations into the most terrible time of trouble they have ever experienced (See Dan. 9:27; 12:1; Matt. 24:21).

    Actually God will take over as the “great tribulation” breaks, letting the nations of the world bring their uncalled-for rebellion to a head.

    Next, note the phrase, “as travail upon a woman with child.” When Antichrist breaks his covenant with Israel “in the midst of the week”1 (Dan. 9:27), “destruction” will break out suddenly. This does not mean, however, that it will run its course in a moment. Rather, it will “come upon them” suddenly, and run its course “as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”

    The travail of a woman with child takes time. The birth pangs increase both in frequency and in intensity until the child is born.

    This, we suggest, illustrates the “great tribulation” far more accurately than it does the actual return of Christ, for during the great tribulation the world’s troubles will indeed increase both in frequency and intensity “and they shall not escape.” This “destruction,” to take place during “the day of the Lord,” will overtake the world of the ungodly unexpectedly, just when they are congratulating themselves as having attained “Peace and safety” (I Thes. 5:3).

    Now please think carefully. Will anyone be saying, “Peace and safety” at the close of the “great tribulation”? Will anyone rejoice in “Peace and safety” as the battle of Armageddon rages? How, then, can this passage about “the day of the Lord” refer only to the return of Christ after the tribulation?

    But when we see that “the day of the Lord” begins with, rather than after the tribulation, all is in order.

    As we know, the seven years of the tribulation will begin with the rider on the “white horse” (Rev. 6:1,2—evidently Antichrist cf. Rev. 19:11—the true Christ), who goes forth “conquering and to conquer.” Like Antiochus Epiphanes, he will “come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries” (Dan. 11:21). All will go well for him and he will bring to the world a kind of peace that will win him universal allegiance. “Peace and safety”! the world will exclaim.

    But of the rider on the next horse we read: “and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth” (Rev. 6:4). Then follow war, famine and death (Vers. 3-8).

    This “destruction” will come suddenly when, after three and a half years (“in the midst of the week”), Antichrist will betray Israel and break his seven-year covenant with them (Dan. 9:27), and will, like An-tiochus Epiphanes, desecrate the temple (Dan. 9:27; 11:31; Matt. 24:15; II Thes. 2:3,4).

    There we have it! Our “post-tribulation” brethren say that “the day of the Lord follows the tribulation.” Paul, in I Thessalonians 5:1-3, makes it clear that the day of the Lord includes the tribulation. They have men in the closing, most terrible hours of the tribulation saying, “Peace and safety”! They have the Lord’s speedy judgment of the ungodly described by “travail upon a woman with child”!

    No, the Rapture of the Body of Christ to be with Him will not follow the tribulation; it will precede it. Thus the Apostle Paul, after writing about the Rapture of the Body in I Thessalonians 4, continues in Chapter 5 with the word “But,” to show the disrelation of God’s prophesied “times and seasons” and “the day of the Lord,” from that blessed day for which every believer should be “looking,” “waiting” and “watching.”

    “Wherefore comfort one another with these words” (I Thes. 4:18), and “be not soon troubled” (II Thes. 2:2), for like the Thessalonian believers we are to “serve the living and true God, and to wait for His Son from heaven…who hath delivered us from the wrath to come” (I Thes. 1:9,10


    Source: https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/the-day-of-the-lord-what-is-it/


    IIf you need more Scriptural verification, let me know and I'll be happy to provide it for you.



    Quasar92
     
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  2. ByTheSpirit

    ByTheSpirit Pray always!!

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    You say the Lord's return will be "unexpected" but yet at the end of the tribulation which is a seven year period. Now explain this to me:

    If the rapture happens just as the 7 year period tribulation begins, how can the Lord's return at the end of the 7 year tribulation be unexpected?

    People can easily just count 7 years after the day a bunch of Christians disappear to figure out when Jesus will come back. The entire scenario defies logic and is unscriptural.

    Not to mention in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Paul says "that day will NOT come" until 2 things happen, the great apostasy and the revelation of the man of sin. That day is a reference to the Day of the Lord, the DAY which he comes back to earth and we are gathered to him (2 Thessalonians 2:1)
     
  3. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    That DAY means the Day of the Lord, and it starts at the First Seal, it is a 3.5 year period of Gods Wrath. The Rapture happens, then 3.5 years latter at the midway point the Anti-Christ is Revealed, bring forth the onset of the Day of the Lord.

    There is no Apostasy in 2 Thess. 2, that has been fabricated out of whole cloth. The first Seven English translations had the word DEPART/DEPARTED not a Falling Away from the Faith, but a Snatching away, a DEPARTING OF WHAT? Well what was the Subject? A Gathering together unto the Lord BEFORE the Day of the Lord. Now drop a dime on me a show me anywhere in that passage where the SUBJECT was ever about Faith !!!

    You guys just insert it in the passage, even though nothing in the passage is about Faith. But the whole passage starts out speaking about the Rapture (As concerning the Gathering together unto Christ !! ). So what is DEPARTING? The Church. When? Before the Day of the Lord starts. When does that start? At the First Seal.

    So does the Church Depart before the First Seal is opened? Yes and Does the Anti-Christ come forth before the First Seal is broken, of Course, that explains the whole passage.

    Jesus comes like a thief for those Raptured.
     
  4. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Here is the elaboration on 2 Thes. 2:3 in the Wycliffe translation:

    3 [That] No man deceive you in any manner. For but dissension come first [For no but departing away, or dissension, shall come first], and the man of sin be showed, the son of perdition

    Note that dissension (consistent with apostasy, separation, schism) is the elaboration. Rapture is unseen.

    Departing/departure means departure from the truth i.e. apostasy, not rapture; falling away, not flying away.

    Wycliffe himself identified antichrist as the papacy, at whose hands the true church was suffering. He unquestionably therefore did not believe in a pretrib rapture.


    And from Calvin's Geneva Study Bible:

    Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

    Calvin also identified antichrist as the papacy, and thus did not believe in a pretrib rapture.
    Same with Tyndale. He was martyred by the papacy.
    Same with Cranmer. He too was martyred by the papacy.
    Coverdale was an associate of Tyndale's, and almost certainly of like persuasion.
    Beza was almost certainly of like persuasion.

    There is no Reformer who defined the word as anything other than apostasy.

    A definition of "discessio," the word used in the Vulgate, is found at this site.

    Included near the end is a specific ecclesiological subdefinition:
    "In the church, a separation, schism (eccl. Lat.), Vulg. Act. 21, 21; id. 2 Thes. 2, 3."

    Occurrences are cited as being Acts 21:21 and 2 Thes. 2:3.

    Letting Scripture interpret Scripture, the use of the word in Acts 21:21 is translated "forsake," which is fully consistent with the subdefinition above, and has nothing to do with rapture.

    Apostacia: What Modern Greeks say about "Apostacia" in 2 Thess 2:3.

    Excerpt: "I could find no debate among Greek speaking Christians on how to interpret this verse. They all interpret "apostacia" in 2 Thess 2:3 to mean "apostacy"."

    Does Apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Refer to a ‘Physical Departure’ (i.e. the Rapture)?

    2 Thess 2:3 in the Early Church Writings; How early Greek, Latin and Aramaic speaking Christians interpreted "Apostacia"/"Apostacy

    The Latin Influence on 2 Thess 2:3
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
  5. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    I could care less about Wycliffe, I don't follow men. All of of that Copy & paste doesn't change the facts as I presented them.

    You guys on the "we are going through the Tribulation" are determined to get there, but the Church will not be here.
     
  6. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    You are determined to get to heaven, despite Jesus saying that is impossible. John 3:13, John 7:34, +

    Re: the great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath, it is the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, Revelation 6:12-17, a one day event that will change the world as we know it.

    Jeremiah 25:30-38 The Lord roars from on high. He thunders from His holy place. He roars loudly against His holy Land and like a grape treader He shouts against all the inhabitants of the earth. The great noise is heard around the world. For the Lord brings His judgement against the nations, He arraigns all mankind and has handed over the wicked and godless to the sword.

    The Lord says, ‘Disaster spreads from nation to nation, a mighty tempest is unleashed, that will blast to every corner of the world’. Those whom the Lord has killed on that Day will be strewn from one end of the earth to the other, they will not be mourned or buried, but left as dung upon the ground.

    Cry out you bad shepherds and useless leaders of My people, the Day comes for your demise, you will fall like prize rams to the slaughter. There will be no escape from the Lord’s fierce anger, like a lion leaping to the kill.

    Disaster will suddenly strike and their land will become desolate because of the fiery wrath of the Lord. Ref: REB, CJB.

    It is now time to realize that this terrible, worldwide disaster is soon to happen. In no way has this prophecy been fulfilled yet and this cannot be at the Return, as it is before that: He thunders from His holy place…. He sends down fireAmos 1, Psalms 18:13, Psalms 11:4-6, Revelation 14:17-20, +

    Many other prophesies vividly describe this sudden and shocking, Day of the Lord’s wrath, a one day event: as fire from the heavens, as a coronal mass ejection sunstrike that will literally fulfill all of them. Psalms 83 tells how fire and tempest will destroy those attackers of Israel and details like ‘the sky rolled up like a scroll’, and the ‘moon blood red’, are also literal effects of an earth directed Coronal Mass Ejection. Isaiah 30:26-30, Isaiah 66:14-16, 2 Peter 3:7

    The millions killed on that Day won’t be buried because there won’t be many survivors to do that and the extreme heat of a CME and the fires caused by it, will reduce them to ash. Malachi 4:3, Jeremiah 9:22
    Those who have led the people astray with their false teachings, fictional books and poor leadership will be judged and punished on that Day. Micah 3:1-4, Isaiah 56:10-12

    The world as we know it now, will not continue for much longer, prophecy is given to us as a warning of what will happen and to be mentally and physically prepared, so we can stay strong and keep trusting in the Lord to keep us safe, because we know what He plans for His own Christian people. Jeremiah 29:11
    Colossians 1:11-12 In His glorious might may He give you ample strength to meet with fortitude and patience whatever comes and to give joyful thanks to the Father who has made you fit to share in the heritage of God’s people, the saints of His Light.
     
  7. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    You just don't seem to understand the bible IMHO.
     
  8. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Sure. Why endure sound doctrine (2 Timothy 4:3) when you can invent your own?

    Wycliffe labored lifelong to produce the first English translation of the Bible. But hey, you "could care less" about that. You don't follow men like Wycliffe. His effort and sacrifice were of no significance to you.

    We can scarcely contain ourselves as we await forthcoming installments of your wisdom and insight.
     
  9. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    I surely don't understand the Bible how you do. Making whole doctrines out of inferences and assumptions. What God actually does plan for His people, is quite clear and it sure isn't a rapture to heaven, when He has work for us to do on earth.
     
  10. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    I always get a kick out of someone like you who seem to think because you quote something like 2 Timothy 4:3 that automatically means you have sound doctrine when just the opposite is true.

    The facts are as I stated them, you didn't try to counter point my argument because you can't, the passage is about the Gathering together unto Christ (Rapture) just as I stated, and not one time does the passage mention anything about the FAITH.

    You are correcto, I don't follow men. And I don't follow someone because they link to a site that agrees with then on ONE SUBJECT. That's like changing between bibles to prove different points, I stick with the KJV or the Holman.

    The facts are the facts, 2 Thess. 2 is about the Church being raptured, it is what it is. No one is going o change that. Now for those of you who insist its an apostasy because that's what you have been taught, that is men's traditions then, that's not my bag.

    The passage is very clear and very easy to understand to me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2017
  11. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    In every instance the majority is with me and you are always with the "fringe opinion" keras, I wonder why that is? But yet I don't understand doctrine, even though I really do.
     
  12. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    There is a transportation mentioned in 1 Thessalonians 4:17; to where Jesus is. Paralleled by Matthew 24:31. But in no way is this a rapture to heaven.
    I am perfectly happy to be in the minority with my beliefs about what God has planned for His people.
    Daniel 12:10 said that only a few wise leaders would understand.
     
  13. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    The 1 Billion or so Christians are the few. The rest of the worlds population is 7 Billion. I would imagine we have 1 Billion fake Christians since Jesus gave us the parable of the 5 Wise virgins and the 5 Foolish virgins.

    So the Majority of Christendom that agrees with me are still the "FEW" even if they are 800 Million strong.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2017
  14. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    To be fooled by a false theory like the 'rapture to heaven' fanciful idea, does not mean those Christians are 'fakes', just that they will be shocked when what they believed, doesn't happen.
    Have you heard the joke; 50 million Frenchmen can't be wrong? But they were and now Paul says that many will stop their ears to the truth and turn to fables. 2 Timothy 4:3-4
    You may think that's impossible for you, but is it? Remember, there is no scripture that actually says God will take His people to heaven.
     
  15. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What "majority" are you referring to? A pretrib rapture was never part of recognized true Christian eschatological doctrine for over 1700 years of orthodox Christian history. Every recognized true Christian scholar and apologist for over 17 centuries believed that the Church would suffer under an antichrist.

    The pretrib rapture is a modernist doctrine.
     
  16. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    You are the one that's fooled. Its plain as day. Of course I disagree with a few here about almost everything. That kind of tells me all I need to know most of the times.
     
  17. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    One that the Modernist Paul wrote.... You guys are being taught by men, that's for sure, because the bible is very clear on the Rapture. You spend your whole life trying to disprove a truth of God. But Jesus is still going to Rapture us. Whether you understand that or not is not going to change his plans.
     
  18. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yeah, and it seems that the Church suddenly went blind in both eyes for over 1700 years to what he had written. What an astonishing case of selective eyesight loss. Their eyesight seemed fine with everything else. How do you explain such a phenomenon?
     
  19. Revealing Times

    Revealing Times Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe its just you and people like you that do not grasp the truths.
     
  20. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Apparently you're the only one capable of grasping a vacuum. I and people like me want to know how you do it.

    Still waiting for the evidence from over 1700 years of true Christian Church historical orthodox doctrine. Of course, the evidence of the contents of a vacuum can be rather difficult to produce.
     
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